Hibs Cic

[Stuart Dickson]

I think we all know how to stop the Rangers or Celtic supporter, but it's really not in our gift to put an end to the protestant or catholic faiths. As for sharing resources, one minute you want St Mirren to make money from facilities and the next we're to give them away for free.

I take it parochial was a headline on a chip wrapper you read whilst having a snack in-between visits to Aulds and Greggs. We await your next poorly constructed argument...

At no point did I say for free but there is a difference between having a Community Owned facility ran on behalf of the community, in the interests of the community, rather that a football club owned stadium ran with the sole interest of the football club. For a start it means sharing maintenance costs, and the cost of expansion. When we were talking about doing something similar in Wishaw the structure that was suggested by the SFA was very similar to the 10000hours idea in that the combined membership would have an "umbrella" group elected by members to run the facilities - in much the same way as the Atlantis Leisure Centre works. Where there is the opportunity to increase revenue into the football club is through the increased footfall to a venue that is currently massively underused.

As I said before I've got no intention of going into this in any detail on a football forum where people will look to ridicule and snipe as standard - particularly because it's me who is making the post - but if you just take one very small scale silly example that should be easy to understand, lets say St Mirren installed some vending machines in the reception area. Currently there would be no point obviously, but if you've got the increased footfall and over the course of the day 500 people come through the door for their Community Activity and just half of them pay for a cup of tea, coffee or can/bottle of juice/water - you'd be looking at more than enough clear profit per week to put an extra full time player on the team payroll.

[TsuMirren]

i thought everyone knew that SMISA (and the BOD ) pulled away from 10,000 hrs because of the unanswered questions on the unnamed corporate backers, who either did not exist or were only getting involved for a bit of networking and had no intention of putting their money in, or possibly found that they would not get any extra funding for themselves, cant believe people who knew this are now asking why SMISA was not putting itself up as "the vehicle" FFS 10,000hrs was "the vehicle" and you were backing it, maybe they need reminding that SMISA is there to support and have as much say in running the club as they possibly can, it could blossom into much more if those who now choose to slate it would actually dip into there pockets and join in, but i feel that the genuine "one memeber one vote" idea does not appeal to those who want something extra for themselves.

SMISA putting themselves up would remove a lot of the mistrust. But, no matter how you wash it, it will still need those pesky corporate backers. SMISA just will not meet the required up front finance without corporate groups being on board. So, one major question has to be just how much the fan/membership base will give over in return. A free ad board(s) space rotated between groups, free table at hospitality rotated, a block of seats, programme space, web space, monthly use of a "space" or anything else you can come up with. A non-exec board, offering advice, where the main board take views on and the members are mature enough to know we need that advice. I don't know that many fans want something extra other than to get involved to the level they feel they can. Sadly, SMISA would need to secure the upfront finance prior to a payment plan before the board would do anything. Obviously it would need people prepared to have talks, people who've been around the scenario before and open forums to get members and feedback. You don't get that with leaflets and "we'd likd to..." rhetoric. They need to come out, say they're looking to buy the club...not secure seats...and get the ball rolling. The legal fees may even be prohibitive, unless a legal firm would assist in return for...and we're back here again.

[buddiecat]

SMISA putting themselves up would remove a lot of the mistrust. But, no matter how you wash it, it will still need those pesky corporate backers. SMISA just will not meet the required up front finance without corporate groups being on board. So, one major question has to be just how much the fan/membership base will give over in return. A free ad board(s) space rotated between groups, free table at hospitality rotated, a block of seats, programme space, web space, monthly use of a "space" or anything else you can come up with. A non-exec board, offering advice, where the main board take views on and the members are mature enough to know we need that advice. I don't know that many fans want something extra other than to get involved to the level they feel they can. Sadly, SMISA would need to secure the upfront finance prior to a payment plan before the board would do anything. Obviously it would need people prepared to have talks, people who've been around the scenario before and open forums to get members and feedback. You don't get that with leaflets and "we'd likd to..." rhetoric. They need to come out, say they're looking to buy the club...not secure seats...and get the ball rolling. The legal fees may even be prohibitive, unless a legal firm would assist in return for...and we're back here again.

your missing the point - SMISA are not looking to take over the club, just to have supporters a decent enough say in what goes on

[TsuMirren]

your missing the point - SMISA are not looking to take over the club, just to have supporters a decent enough say in what goes on

One of their banner statements is about protecting the club. I don't mean to be negative, but that's pointless posturing if you're not looking to own and run it. Is it to become one of the numerous Rangers groups constantly demanding boycotts. If the 75% gets sold then protection won't be in their gift. Oh and you were the one talking about them being "the vehicle".

[buddiecat]

One of their banner statements is about protecting the club. I don't mean to be negative, but that's pointless posturing if you're not looking to own and run it. Is it to become one of the numerous Rangers groups constantly demanding boycotts. If the 75% gets sold then protection won't be in their gift. Oh and you were the one talking about them being "the vehicle".

i never said SMISA were "the vehicle" because 10,000 hours were the one and only set-up looking to take the 75% share, and comparing SMISA to rangers groups demanding boycotts is something you have just made up out of nothing. they have never proposed any boycott and i dont believe they ever would

[Stuart Dickson]

SD alludes that he was courted at an early stage to join 10Kh by it's ace networker

that fact alone busts into oblivion any credibility that group ever had

I wasn't "courted" by anyone but I assume that by "ace networker" you mean Richard Atkinson? If so the way I remember it was that the first time we spoke was immediately after the CIC Conference that I attended at Stirling University. No-one from 10000hours was there and I'd been speaking to others who clearly knew a lot more about CICs than I did. The feedback I was getting from them was that they felt it wouldn't work because 10000hours were doing things back to front - I guess ultimately they were right in the end. I posted a selection of the comments on this forum and before I arrived back in Wishaw Richard Atkinson had phoned me on my mobile. We chatted for a bit. I agreed with some of what he said, disagreed with other bits and I told him so. And if you check back on here although I supported the concept of community ownership I played it completely straight posting what I thought and being critical of those behind the bid when I felt they were off course as well as posting my views. Indeed by the end of the process I'd withdrawn my direct debit because of the view being taken that Rangers needed to stay in the SPL.

I have to say that I think anyone who knows me at all knows there is little point in trying to "court" me. I don't work like that.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Stuart Dickson

[div]

A free reign to shoot it down???

If you count thinly veiled threats from the selling consortium's lead, 10kh attempts at ridicule and inciting fellow saints fans to gang up on any nay sayers, a forum and admin that continually joined in on this naysayer witch hunt, and 10kh even going to the lengths of disclosing personal data to achieve their aim of ridicule and marginalisation and the obvious coordination of this activity between the guilty parties.. (What your saying at these meetings you never discussed the negative "chatter" on the forum and who was involved?...)

Aye right a free reign...

FYI bitches... The messages, emails, posts etc are in a safe place

If it makes you happy to cook up wild consipracy theories then be my guest. I have absolutely no intention of getting involved in this argument again.

I have all the emails and all the audit trail of everything I did and was involved in with 10000Hours, and all the posts made on the subject have remained untouched on this forum for the past few years, they are still there today.

I've nothing whatsoever to hide.

If you have evidence to the contrary be my guest and post it up here for everyone to see please !

[div]

and if my memory serves me right, div and stuart Dickson wernt you both in SMiSA at one point ?

maybe you can actually answer your own question as to why SMiSA dint become the vehicle as anyone can become part of the committee and maybe you could have both made it happen ?

I was one of the first members of SMiSA John, and I remained a member until the sale of Love Street was completed.

I will probably join again once the club is sold or if SMiSA was to front a fans led bid then I would also pledge to join that as I still believe strongly that the assets of the club should be protected at all costs, which is why I joined 10000Hours.

It's ironic that the payment infrastructure model I put in for 10000Hours was later used successfully by Hearts, Rangers, Motherwell and Hibs. That was all under the guidance of Supporters Direct, where Richard is now an advisor.

[Lord Pityme]

If it makes you happy to cook up wild consipracy theories then be my guest. I have absolutely no intention of getting involved in this argument again.

I have all the emails and all the audit trail of everything I did and was involved in with 10000Hours, and all the posts made on the subject have remained untouched on this forum for the past few years, they are still there today.

I've nothing whatsoever to hide.

If you have evidence to the contrary be my guest and post it up here for everyone to see please !

What about the messages i received with the thinly veiled threats telling me to check with Div to confirm they were coming from who they said they were? And the concerted effort by those aligned to 10000 hours to shout down and ridicule anyone who stuck to calling them on the detail of the debt they were going to accrue, giving away assets and revenue streams for next to nothing?

All the main players in the car crash that was 10000 hours were on to me via this forum. Wild conspiracy theories...?

Messy, clumsy, ill conceived and amateurish are words that best describe the attempts to silence buddies like me who wanted to make sure we never ended up regretting at leisure what was signed up to in haste, and this forum should have been a place fir FANS to express their thoughts and concerns without being hounded by those involved in that shambles of a proposal.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Lord Pityme

[div]

What about the messages i received with the thinly veiled threats telling me to check with Div to confirm they were coming from who they said they were? And the concerted effort by those aligned to 10000 hours to shout down and ridicule anyone who stuck to calling them on the detail of the debt they were going to accrue, giving away assets and revenue streams for next to nothing?

All the main players in the car crash that was 10000 hours were on to me via this forum. Wild conspiracy theories...?

Messy, clumsy, ill conceived and amateurish are words that best describe the attempts to silence buddies like me who wanted to make sure we never ended up regretting at leisure what was signed up to in haste, and this forum should have been a place fir FANS to express their thoughts and concerns without being hounded by those involved in that shambles of a proposal.

As I said, happy to see your evidence of all of this ? Just post a few of the threatening messages or emails you received ?

[rea]

I was one of the first members of SMiSA John, and I remained a member until the sale of Love Street was completed.

I will probably join again once the club is sold or if SMiSA was to front a fans led bid then I would also pledge to join that as I still believe strongly that the assets of the club should be protected at all costs, which is why I joined 10000Hours.

It's ironic that the payment infrastructure model I put in for 10000Hours was later used successfully by Hearts, Rangers, Motherwell and Hibs. That was all under the guidance of Supporters Direct, where Richard is now an advisor.

Hearts via FoH now at 8000 members, RangersFirst approaching 2000 members, all using the work done previously.

Lots of lesson learned, and maybe some other group of Fans will take back the work now used elsewhere for St Mirren in the future.

All the back office stuff was offered, to SMISA and the Fans Council.

So if you are a fan in anyway interested in building on top of what the Hearts and Rangers schemes learned from 10000hours to build afresh at SMFC feel free to email.

[Lord Pityme]

Rangers and success in the same sentence?

Maybe i dreamt aw the carnage and fan division at the big hoose?

The one thing the fan takeover at hearts hasn't taken over is, well... hearts!

Mrs B is getting the interest paid on her loan whilst having access to all the FoH cash reserves to use as deemed fit. Given the FoH could have bought Hearts why have the fans been kept at arms length yet again, whilst their contributions have been gratefully accepted?

What is it with all these fan takeovers that aren't taking over?

[Lord Pityme]

As I said, happy to see your evidence of all of this ? Just post a few of the threatening messages or emails you received ?

Well you've got copies on the data base of the messages from SGG, maybe you want to share them?

Then again perhaps its just REA who shares personal info when it suits?

P.s. You do know how this looks when the chancer mentioned above chimes in with likes, on a thread where you declare there was never any collusion or campaign to isolate, intimidate and ridicule anyone who persistently asked the right questions???

Edited December 15, 2014 by Lord Pityme

[div]

Well you've got copies on the data base of the messages from SGG, maybe you want to share them?

Then again perhaps its just REA who shares personal info when it suits?

P.s. You do know how this looks when the chancer mentioned above chimes in with likes, on a thread where you declare there was never any collusion or campaign to isolate, intimidate and ridicule anyone who persistently asked the right questions???

Can we see just one of the threatening emails or messages you received then ?

[Lord Pityme]

Can we see just one of the threatening emails or messages you received then ?

But you said above you had all this archived, surely you can push a button or two and retrieve it?

[div]

But you said above you had all this archived, surely you can push a button or two and retrieve it?

I don't need to push any buttons. The archive of 10000 hours discussion on this forum is linked in the sub-forum right at the top of the "St.Mirren For Sale" section of the board. There are 14,000 posts in there. Here is the direct link in case you can't see it.

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/forum/20-10000hours-archive/

I don't think it's my place to back up your argument by searching through those 14000 posts looking for these "threatening messages" that you claim were posted. You did however say;

FYI bitches... The messages, emails, posts etc are in a safe place

So surely you should be able to post at least one of these threatening emails or messages you received from me, the club or any other member of the 10000Hours team ?

[rea]

Well you've got copies on the data base of the messages from SGG, maybe you want to share them?

Then again perhaps its just REA who shares personal info when it suits?

P.s. You do know how this looks when the chancer mentioned above chimes in with likes, on a thread where you declare there was never any collusion or campaign to isolate, intimidate and ridicule anyone who persistently asked the right questions???

Just for what it is worth you were the one that posted your own twitter handle.....but I can re post it if you like......

[Lord Pityme]

Just for what it is worth you were the one that posted your own twitter handle.....but I can re post it if you like......

Talk of the devil and he shall appear!

Twitter handle is it now? Ffs desperate times, whatever happened to good old honesty or even lord forbid apologising for haven overstepped confidentiality rules.

FYI theres always been about 15 - 20 posters on here who knew me anyway, sorry to pop your startling revelation moment.

[Lord Pityme]

I don't need to push any buttons. The archive of 10000 hours discussion on this forum is linked in the sub-forum right at the top of the "St.Mirren For Sale" section of the board. There are 14,000 posts in there. Here is the direct link in case you can't see it.

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/forum/20-10000hours-archive/

I don't think it's my place to back up your argument by searching through those 14000 posts looking for these "threatening messages" that you claim were posted. You did however say;

So surely you should be able to post at least one of these threatening emails or messages you received from me, the club or any other member of the 10000Hours team ?

So you are disowning the PM's sent to me involving SGG and your good self?

P.s if you think i am going to compromise other people's privacy by printing PM's sent in confidence then you must be confusing me with some other Dick!

I think its worth pointing out at this juncture how/when this thread was hijacked to trawl through the past. You said i paraphrase "people/posters had a free reign to comment/debate the 10000 hours clusterf**k"

However when i dispute this what happens??? Exactly what happened back then with St Mirren fans been offered up the chance to turn on one another all for the sake of a bloke who could not deliver what he promised, nor practice what he preaches!

A free reign right enough, as long as you agree with the protagonists, or keep schtum!

[Lord Pityme]

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Cheers Slash, knew I could count on your support ma-aan!

[div]

So you are disowning the PM's sent to me involving SGG and your good self?

P.s if you think i am going to compromise other people's privacy by printing PM's sent in confidence then you must be confusing me with some other Dick!

I think its worth pointing out at this juncture how/when this thread was hijacked to trawl through the past. You said i paraphrase "people/posters had a free reign to comment/debate the 10000 hours clusterf**k"

However when i dispute this what happens??? Exactly what happened back then with St Mirren fans been offered up the chance to turn on one another all for the sake of a bloke who could not deliver what he promised, nor practice what he preaches!

A free reign right enough, as long as you agree with the protagonists, or keep schtum!

I've never sent you a threatening PM, email or any other sort of threatening communication.

You are claiming that I have.

So I'm asking you to prove your claim by posting the evidence.

You will only be compromising my own privacy, but I grant you complete permission to post them.

So, let's be having you. This really isn't difficult. Show us all the evidence to backup these accusations.

[HSS]

Aye come on LP,get it posted and keep us entertained.

[aldo_j]

It's like I've stepped back in time and walked in to the 10000hours forum circa 2012.

[Lord Pityme]

I've never sent you a threatening PM, email or any other sort of threatening communication.

You are claiming that I have.

So I'm asking you to prove your claim by posting the evidence.

You will only be compromising my own privacy, but I grant you complete permission to post them.

So, let's be having you. This really isn't difficult. Show us all the evidence to backup these accusations.

No where in any if my posts have i claimed the above and you sure as hell know that. Deflection won't cut it, i stick to the point and you know the PM's concerned.

Prove me guilty of lying about these PM's!

Theres some f**king deflection for ya.

[Lord Pityme]

Aye come on LP,get it posted and keep us entertained.

Sorry to disappoint, i know it's gone out of fashion but i tend to keep confidentiality. You'll have to get your rocks off with all this hot air and bluster....

Come to think of it it really does feel like 10kh and all that again!