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Lorry Crash In George Square


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He seems to be a rather unpleasant individual.

I'm not convinced the cooncil followed due process either though, however we'll probably never know now.

He was going to be dismissed apparently. Given the way Clark has acted throughout this whole saga, I think had he thought GCC hadn't followed due process he wouldn't have quit. Very lucky not to be facing prosecution although the private proceeding might yet happen I suppose.

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  • 1 year later...
Families of the victims have been refused permission to mount a private prosecution!!!!


I said it earlier in the thread at the time; there was no prospect of this being allowed as there was no possible way of securing a conviction. In short, Harry Clarke is a despicable human being for the lies he told and the pain and suffering he has caused, but to me knowing what I do, the lawyers acting for these families are money hungry, immoral leaches who have led those poor families down the garden path when they KNEW, and I'm saying that absolutely categorically, they KNEW there was no way they were going to be allowed to proceed with a private prosecution. Those lawyers should have been honest from the outset and stopped it, it would have been less painful for all involved by not giving them false hope.
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Guest TPAFKATS


I said it earlier in the thread at the time; there was no prospect of this being allowed as there was no possible way of securing a conviction. In short, Harry Clarke is a despicable human being for the lies he told and the pain and suffering he has caused, but to me knowing what I do, the lawyers acting for these families are money hungry, immoral leaches who have led those poor families down the garden path when they KNEW, and I'm saying that absolutely categorically, they KNEW there was no way they were going to be allowed to proceed with a private prosecution. Those lawyers should have been honest from the outset and stopped it, it would have been less painful for all involved by not giving them false hope.

Assume the same applies to the families of the two lassies killed a few years before outside buchanan galleries?
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Guy in Yorkshire gets a year in the jail for driving a bus past 2 road signs saying roads closed and ended up stranded in floodwaters. Luckily nobody got hurt. This c*** lies through his teeth about his ability to drive and killed 6 people and walked free. He even has the balls to try and get his licence back FFS. Hopefully he floating down the Clyde sooner than later [emoji107]


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This is a shocking case.

He should be in front of a court of law being charged with murder.

But the PF decided no case to answer even before the facts were laid bare.

He is a despicable fat piece of Shire that has shown no remorse or even attempted and form of apology.In fact he is oblivious to what he has done and looks like a right fat smug cnut.

This piece of shire should never have been allowed to breathe free air in his life again and should have been locked up!!

He is one person i truly truly detest.

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10 hours ago, Svard svard said:

This is a shocking case.

He should be in front of a court of law being charged with murder.

But the PF decided no case to answer even before the facts were laid bare.

He is a despicable fat piece of Shire that has shown no remorse or even attempted and form of apology.In fact he is oblivious to what he has done and looks like a right fat smug cnut.

This piece of shire should never have been allowed to breathe free air in his life again and should have been locked up!!

He is one person i truly truly detest.

What he had done is no different than somebody knowingly having a bevvy and knowing he is well over the limit. Some driver can be done for being a baw hair over the limit the next day after a few beers and get a ban but what he did was far worst.. The fact he tried to get his driving licenced back after killing 6 decent human disgust me :thumbsdown

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the prosecutors would have made their decision ONLY on the facts and how they might affect a decision.  They simply reviewed the law, as it stands now, and decided that any prosecution would ultimately fail to secure a conviction.   I don't know if there were any facts presented to the inquiry that were not already in front of the prosecutors.

 

I don't think the decision is that there was no case to answer, more that there were legal arguments to be made that would prevent a conviction and they were unable to get around that.

 

I would add, by not prosecuting now, they might still have a chance of a successful prosecution in the light of new facts or legal interpretation in the future.  That's just my opinion.

Edited by beyond our ken
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On ‎09‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:46 PM, zurich_allan said:

 

 


I said it earlier in the thread at the time; there was no prospect of this being allowed as there was no possible way of securing a conviction. In short, Harry Clarke is a despicable human being for the lies he told and the pain and suffering he has caused, but to me knowing what I do, the lawyers acting for these families are money hungry, immoral leaches who have led those poor families down the garden path when they KNEW, and I'm saying that absolutely categorically, they KNEW there was no way they were going to be allowed to proceed with a private prosecution. Those lawyers should have been honest from the outset and stopped it, it would have been less painful for all involved by not giving them false hope.

 

I bow to your greater experience of the machinations of the legal system, but tell me, do you think justice has been served in this case? Why should it have required a private prosecution in any event? Six people dead, God knows how many still suffering from their injuries let alone grieving families. If the puny sentence Clarke got is in the opinion of our esteemed legal profession his just desserts, can we please have a new justice system?

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This case highlights the problem with the legal profession.

Too many practitioners more worried about the strict interpretation of the written word rather than taking a practical stance. It is crystal clear that this guy should be serving jail time.

I think this sort of thing damages the reputation of the legal profession. Not that it could sink much further before it hits the level of politicians and journalists.

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Is Clarke's behaviour worse because of the tragic outcome?
It's a lottery how a person's bad judgement or irresponsible behaviour is going to turn out.
I feel the decision not to prosecute is the correct one.

It not just about bad judgement, he lied through his teeth before and after the crash when he has the cheek to try and get his licenced back. If he had got his licenced back then the whole sad affair could have been repeated [emoji603]
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39 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Is Clarke's behaviour worse because of the tragic outcome?

It's a lottery how a person's bad judgement or irresponsible behaviour is going to turn out.

I feel the decision not to prosecute is the correct one.

I think it's worse. He lied about his health and should never have been behind the wheel of any vehicle. The insurance payout for that incident will be huge. Who's paying it? The insurance company could refuse to pay because of the non-disclosure of an existing medical condition. That had already caused Clarke a job with the bus company when an inspector caught him asleep behind the wheel at a bus stop. The George Square deaths would never have happened had Clarke told the truth I wouldn't be surprised if the good burghers of Glasgow pay the costs if the insurance company voids the claim as they assuredly are entitled to.

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

The crime was the lie, not the outcome.

I accept I'm gonna be in the minority over this one and I realize some of his actions after the accident have been crass but I don't see what monstering  him does to improve the situation.

 

We are not talking about a little white lie. He deliberately lied because he knew if he disclosed his problem he wouldn't have got the job. He caused six deaths, not deliberately, but because he was prepared to gamble with innocent people's lives. The punishment meted out to him in no way fitted the crime.

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1 hour ago, RickMcD said:

We are not talking about a little white lie. He deliberately lied because he knew if he disclosed his problem he wouldn't have got the job. He caused six deaths, not deliberately, but because he was prepared to gamble with innocent people's lives. The punishment meted out to him in no way fitted the crime.

What punishment? 

I would suggest a crime of "driving while medically unfit" should be introduced and that the onus should be on all drivers to disclose information about their health. What I dislike about this case and to move off-topic, drink driving, is that the calls for punishment seem to be driven by the outcome not the initial act.

Edited by Bud the Baker
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Guest TPAFKATS
The crime was the lie, not the outcome.
I accept I'm gonna be in the minority over this one and I realize some of his actions after the accident have been crass but I don't see what monstering  him does to improve the situation.
 

I agree with you Bud, although I'd suggest we monster him due to his actions and behaviours. He appears to be a horrible human being.

We are not talking about a little white lie. He deliberately lied because he knew if he disclosed his problem he wouldn't have got the job. He caused six deaths, not deliberately, but because he was prepared to gamble with innocent people's lives. The punishment meted out to him in no way fitted the crime.

I think you've kinda answered your own question Rick with -
"He caused 6 deaths, not deliberately."
Isn't that one of the main factors in the decision not to prosecute?

Might be time to review the law on driving offences?
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Guest TPAFKATS
This case highlights the problem with the legal profession.
Too many practitioners more worried about the strict interpretation of the written word rather than taking a practical stance. It is crystal clear that this guy should be serving jail time.
I think this sort of thing damages the reputation of the legal profession. Not that it could sink much further before it hits the level of politicians and journalists.

Isn't that the basis of law though? It's about interpretation of written statute and case law as opposed to being practical.
If it was practical, it would be flexible to the will of the masses and media manipulation?
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Whilst the monster did not deliberately mow down these people and given that he had a history of 'blacking out' / fainting,  would it not have been foreseeable by him that if he 'blacked out' / fainted whilst driving, that something like this could happen?

Maybe Councillors should now be up on Corporate Manslaughter charges.

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5 minutes ago, melmac said:

Whilst the monster did not deliberately mow down these people and given that he had a history of 'blacking out' / fainting,  would it not have been foreseeable by him that if he 'blacked out' / fainted whilst driving, that something like this could happen?

Maybe Councillors should now be up on Corporate Manslaughter charges.

You can accidentally kill someone and still have committed a crime. I'm pretty sure culpable homicide still figures in Scottish Law. If you drive along the Glasgow Road at 75 mph and kill a child, step out of your car pleading 'It's OK, I didn't mean it', do you think you walk free? Clarke had already fallen asleep at the wheel of a bus, but luckily at a bus stop. An inspector woke him up and the inspector had to drive the bus back to the depot. Clarke resigned the job before it could be taken any further. He then lied to obtain the job with the Cleansing Department. The City Council were to put it mildly, very slipshod with the handling of his job application and of course Clarke lied about his medical history. He again resigned from his new job just before the tribunal. History repeating itself. I'm sure ZA will comment on this again and I respect his views and opinions but he will never convince me that natural justice came within a country mile of this case. We all know the law can be an ass at times. At least the commonly held view is that Clarke is a bit of low life. How must the relatives of the dead and the injured be feeling with the second anniversary coming up next week?

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Guest TPAFKATS

Maybe Councillors should now be up on Corporate Manslaughter charges.

I'm sure there would be no shortage of support for this amongst the general populace, i .e. the masses ;-)
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From the fatal accident inquiry: -

"Sheriff Beckett's determination

Sheriff Beckett has found that Mr Clarke suffered a vasovagal syncope (temporary loss of consciousness as a result of a drop in heart rate and blood pressure). There was no warning to Mr Clarke’s colleagues that he was about to lose consciousness, however, Mr Clarke had fainted behind the wheel before.  In April 2010, he fainted while driving a First Glasgow bus, albeit stationary at the time. Mr Clarke also had a history of dizzy spells."

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