Thorizaar Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Handily, the driver is deid, so won't be able to provide his take on his alleged covering-up and ill-health. He is also conveniently easiest to blame, now. Not the management, not the vehicle designers, not his colleagues.... He's very much alive and will be giving evidence to the inquiry in due course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Footage released shows the cab interior after the incident and what does look like a convoluted layout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 So...how we feeling about the driver now that he appears to have attempted to cover up previous blackout episodes ? Did he though? I've got some reason to have sympathy with the driver. In October 2014 I had a coughing fit at work where I struggled to get a breath. All I know about it is that one minute I was coughing and wheezing away and the next i was coming round slumped over the side of an office chair. There was no-one around to witness it or to describe what had happened. On coming round I immediately felt fine and didn't think much more about it other than to assume that this was the equivalent of my body hitting some sort of reset button to let me catch a breath. I had no Idea that I'd just suffered a cough syncope - one of the medical conditions listed on the DVLA website. I had loads of tests done. A 24 hour heart trace, MRI scan, my bloods were taken, and my blood pressure was being monitored every week. I was in constant contact with GP's and hospital consultants. Yet it took four months before any of them gave me a diagnosis or suggested that I should inform the DVLA. The DVLA then took a further 3 weeks before deciding to revoke my license and when I phoned them on the day I received the letter - Friday 28th of Feb - they told me that I should start the application process to get my licence back straight away so long as my GP was willing to support my application, and in a phone call to her on the Monday she informed me that she believed I was fit to drive. Even then I had to jump through hoops and I didn't get my license back until June 2015. Now I'm no HGV driver and I don't drive for a living but I was completely reliant on medical experts to tell me that I was unfit to drive, and then to tell me I was fit to drive again. Since this driver had gone through what appears to have been a similar process - where he informed the DVLA of a medical condition, had his license revoked and then reinstated again I would say he's blameless. The DVLA Medical Officer, using reports from his GP - had passed him as fit to drive on an HGV and PSV licence. Blame, if any should be apportioned for this tragedy - lies with the council who should have had a proper medical screening system in place for employees who would be driving children in school buses amongst other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Did he though? I've got some reason to have sympathy with the driver. In October 2014 I had a coughing fit at work where I struggled to get a breath. All I know about it is that one minute I was coughing and wheezing away and the next i was coming round slumped over the side of an office chair. There was no-one around to witness it or to describe what had happened. On coming round I immediately felt fine and didn't think much more about it other than to assume that this was the equivalent of my body hitting some sort of reset button to let me catch a breath. I had no Idea that I'd just suffered a cough syncope - one of the medical conditions listed on the DVLA website. I had loads of tests done. A 24 hour heart trace, MRI scan, my bloods were taken, and my blood pressure was being monitored every week. I was in constant contact with GP's and hospital consultants. Yet it took four months before any of them gave me a diagnosis or suggested that I should inform the DVLA. The DVLA then took a further 3 weeks before deciding to revoke my license and when I phoned them on the day I received the letter - Friday 28th of Feb - they told me that I should start the application process to get my licence back straight away so long as my GP was willing to support my application, and in a phone call to her on the Monday she informed me that she believed I was fit to drive. Even then I had to jump through hoops and I didn't get my license back until June 2015. Now I'm no HGV driver and I don't drive for a living but I was completely reliant on medical experts to tell me that I was unfit to drive, and then to tell me I was fit to drive again. Since this driver had gone through what appears to have been a similar process - where he informed the DVLA of a medical condition, had his license revoked and then reinstated again I would say he's blameless. The DVLA Medical Officer, using reports from his GP - had passed him as fit to drive on an HGV and PSV licence. Blame, if any should be apportioned for this tragedy - lies with the council who should have had a proper medical screening system in place for employees who would be driving children in school buses amongst other things. Can you paraphrase please Dicko..? Was it the nurses, or the SNP to blame..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Handily, the driver is deid, so won't be able to provide his take on his alleged covering-up and ill-health. He is also conveniently easiest to blame, now. Not the management, not the vehicle designers, not his colleagues.... That'll be a shock to his wife, some guys sitting in her settee reading the Daily Record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) When did he die ? It hasn't been reported ? He's very much alive and will be giving evidence to the inquiry in due course. That'll be a shock to his wife, some guys sitting in her settee reading the Daily Record. My apologies.I am wrong, then.... However, the point stands. As seen above, people have already decided to blame him - and are presenting evidence in a one-sided manner that is glibly being accepted as the "truth" by media outlets. And too many people are too easily swallowing it hook, line etc.... Ps faraway.... Why is he sitting IN her settee? Is he hiding from The Press, in there? Edited July 31, 2015 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 My apologies. I am wrong, then.... However, the point stands. As seen above, people have already decided to blame him - and are presenting evidence in a one-sided manner that is glibly being accepted as the "truth" by media outlets. And too many people are too easily swallowing it hook, line etc.... Ps faraway.... Why is he sitting IN her settee? Is he hiding from The Press, in there? He's hiding from you, seems you're trying to bury him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 My apologies. I am wrong, then.... However, the point stands. As seen above, people have already decided to blame him - and are presenting evidence in a one-sided manner that is glibly being accepted as the "truth" by media outlets. And too many people are too easily swallowing it hook, line etc.... Ps faraway.... Why is he sitting IN her settee? Is he hiding from The Press, in there? Even the expert witness evidence was twisted by the media to imply that the brake could have been applied by the crew members.What he said was that in theory he could reach it however it was with toes or finger tips and without a seatbelt on, never mind during the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 Even the expert witness evidence was twisted by the media to imply that the brake could have been applied by the crew members. What he said was that in theory he could reach it however it was with toes or finger tips and without a seatbelt on, never mind during the incident. Which apparently took just 19 seconds from start to finish. Hardly time for rational thought and effective reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 He did qualify that statement by saying he could reach it in a stationary condition and that it would be difficult whilst the vehicle was moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 He did qualify that statement by saying he could reach it in a stationary condition and that it would be difficult whilst the vehicle was moving.Yes, he did. Media ran with the headlines though and buried this info where few get to in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iTony Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) Bluto in "getting it wrong" shocker! Is there now a permanent "crack" in the universe or space time continuum? Edited August 1, 2015 by iTony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stmirren#1 Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 Glasgow cooncil job for the boys eh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Driver Harry Clarkes been suspended by the council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Driver Harry Clarkes been suspended by the council.GCC giving out the message that they've already got their scapegoat prior to the findings of the FAI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 GCC giving out the message that they've already got their scapegoat prior to the findings of the FAI.Do scapegoat and liar mean the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Kind of wondering what the far reaching effects might be for all council employed drivers? Surely a close inspection of all medical records will be ordered, and who knows how many other 'liars' might be caught in the dragnet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Kind of wondering what the far reaching effects might be for all council employed drivers? Surely a close inspection of all medical records will be ordered, and who knows how many other 'liars' might be caught in the dragnet ?You can't inspect someone's medical records without their permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Do scapegoat and liar mean the same thing?No, but I'm sure you know that.. He's appears to have been suspended by his employer for non disclosure of something to his doctor? Or have I missed something in the news report? Wonder how that plays out with regards employment law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 No, but I'm sure you know that.. He's appears to have been suspended by his employer for non disclosure of something to his doctor? Or have I missed something in the news report? Wonder how that plays out with regards employment law? Are you defending the guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Nipper Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 This tragedy , and now the endless blame trail. The way it's going it'll be the drivers parents fault soon for conceiving him. Dvla, doctors, HR depts , previous employers, lies he allegedly told , his driving test examiner, his family (?).................endless places to drop an element of blame, and now his inept latest employers suspend him, talk about bolting the door , too late. Another lessons learnt scheme , more rigour in HR, blah de blah, more pedantic legislation. My heart went out to the victims , including to an extent the driver, he has now got some weight on his conscience. I feel for the families big time here, this just drags out the agony. My daughters pal was an injured victim in this , received some pretty harrowing injuries, but believe it or not , she is taking nothing but positives from her accident and is so philosophical and pragmatic about this entire accident , that it would shame most of us. Not a shred of bitterness in her. Sometimes , just sometimes fate has to looked at as having played a part, well fwiw that's what I think. I've seen some nasty accidents and some evil pre meditated shit in my time, fact is it cannot be stopped, but for sure , you can always get a blame trail and retrospectively nail someone, the pity is that it's never pro active , it's only after a tragic event, plainly reactive, when it's too feckn late. There must be literally thousands of folk in the UK looking at this inquiry and thinking , I shouldn't be driving, hell , I'll fess up and make myself redundant tomorrow, it'll never happen, so , unfortunately, until the next time............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Are you defending the guy?Not at all.I think it's best to wait until the FAI is over before instigating a suspension. Also think the cooncil are looking to deflect any potential criticism of their procdures by scapegoating the driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 You can't inspect someone's medical records without their permission. Very simply sorted. One line in the contract offer saying that it is subject to satisfactory references and that permission must be given for a limited disclosure from their GP; tick to indicate your agreement. All GP surgeries should already be equipped to deal with that anyway as courts can request a limited disclosure (medical evidence and records that are relevant to a case in hand). The only thing they can't order is a full disclosure including potentially irrelevant details as that is a breach of Doctor-Patient confidentiality - the disclosure should be limited to what is strictly necessary. The system should be very simple to tweak to allow employers where heavy duty machinery is used to be allowed similar legal access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Very simply sorted. One line in the contract offer saying that it is subject to satisfactory references and that permission must be given for a limited disclosure from their GP; tick to indicate your agreement. All GP surgeries should already be equipped to deal with that anyway as courts can request a limited disclosure (medical evidence and records that are relevant to a case in hand). The only thing they can't order is a full disclosure including potentially irrelevant details as that is a breach of Doctor-Patient confidentiality - the disclosure should be limited to what is strictly necessary. The system should be very simple to tweak to allow employers where heavy duty machinery is used to be allowed similar legal access.Might be simpler to put drivers through a medical with their occ health provider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Cost would be the issue that prevented it from happening before now. GPs charge for these medical reports - rightly so IMO. I've no idea what the current rate is but 10 years ago it was £80 per report. It's not likely to have gotten cheaper. Edited August 7, 2015 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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