Gordon Urquhart Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Bottom line is Kenny left us for too little money, dress it up how you like. We are now a much weaker team in the same relegation dogfight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Bottom line is Kenny left us for too little money, dress it up how you like. We are now a much weaker team in the same relegation dogfight. Aye, we know, give it a rest FFS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 There appears to be some presumption that we will go down without Kenny McLean in the squad ? I could be wrong, but apparently we were going down anyway with Kenny McLean in the squad ? In saying that, it's still a team game and we'll no doubt stay up/go down without the chap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Simpson Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 There appears to be some presumption that we will go down without Kenny McLean in the squad ? I could be wrong, but apparently we were going down anyway with Kenny McLean in the squad ? In saying that, it's still a team game and we'll no doubt stay up/go down without the chap.One or the other. Agree we are weaker without him, but again if Kenny wanted to go then that was up to him. Time for the guys in the squad to get their sleeves rolled up and start grafting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Think wee Stevie Mallan could play that roll well. Whilst maybe not having Kennys strikes, he could be great running at the last defender. Tommo up front with Arquin also gives options, maybe even the new guy could play there. Plus, maybe we could start to see the best of Johnn McGinn playing him on a settled position. Just a thought Edited February 4, 2015 by Alan C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Bottom line is Kenny left us for too little money, dress it up how you like. We are now a much weaker team in the same relegation dogfight. ^^^^^^^ I will hold onto the belief that when one door closes another opens and Mallan, McGinn, McLear, etc. will see that hard work and consistency in performance can earn them a move to unfortunately, undoubtably better things and will make them fill the void. We also have the lad on loan who is a complete unknnown factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickMcD Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 ^^^^^^^ I will hold onto the belief that when one door closes another opens and Mallan, McGinn, McLear, etc. will see that hard work and consistency in performance can earn them a move to unfortunately, undoubtably better things and will make them fill the void. We also have the lad on loan who is a complete unknnown factor. Nice to hear some optimism amidst the torrent of doom and gloom swamping our forum. Makes you a heretic all the same. Supporting St.Mirren has rarely ever been an easy ride and this has been a particularly rough one. The sun will come out tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Moving on from the transfer fee argument that could go around in circles forever, has it occurred to anyone that Gary Teale wants to play a formation into which Kenny McLean doesn't naturally fit? Yes, we've built a team around him because he was our best player and top scorer. But Teale is a winger, he clearly believes in playing with width - and has signed two wide players to do just that. I do wonder if we'll start to go 4-3-3, or even 4-4-2, both of which which you make a case for not suiting Kenny. Just a thought. Front six in a 4-4-2: Dayton - McGinn/Mallan - Osbourne - Snoopy ------------------Arquin - Thommo ----------------- Height, pace, presence, grit, deliveries into the box... Our slow defence would be exposed, but we'd be f**king entertaining to watch! (I'm not saying we wouldn't want KM in the team given the choice, but maybe we've got a change of direction on the cards.) Edited February 4, 2015 by Magic Monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Are we destined to repeat this charade with messers McGinn, Mallon, Naismith and Kelly? Might depend on who owns the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) This is where "you" are not seeing the point. Player's are the one's in the position of power these days and BOD's have to bend over backwards to keep them happy and playing well. Put yourself in Kenny's shoes. The BOD offer you a 2 year contract with no "get out clause", so you turn it down and say I'll sign it if you give me the "get out clause". Two options are then left for the BOD: 1. Agree to it and Kenny signs the deal 2. Don't agree to it and you have one pissed off player on your hands, who still carries all the aces. He could upset the dressing room, he could say he'll only sign month to month contracts until someone agrees to pay the compo...etc etc etc.. The BOD's hands were feckin tied. There lies the problem in the running of the club. The power is with the Board they are the paymasters. You’re inferring in your statement that it is the players that are running the club and not the board. The reality is that the club only wish to offer long term deals to young (cheap) players. When said players show promise the club do not wish to tie them down to even longer deals as they would require to renegotiate the deals and pay some more. It was the board that have allowed him and McGinn to run down their contracts. It is the board that seem content in speculating on compensation deals rather than speculate on offering them proper deals to tie them to the club. Businesses that thrive speculate and change to meet the changing circumstances. It is the board that made the gentleman agreement with McLean As stated previously my issue is not what McLean went for. It was the lack of management of the player and that allowed him to have the power to decide he was leaving then re-join on his terms. I am sure that there could have been a compromise on the scenario that you pictured. On a separate point, if there was a gentleman agreement in place. How did Aberdeen know to offer the sum that allowed that agreement to be honoured. The fact the club turned down a derisory offer before from another club suggests that there was an agreement of what he was allowed to go for. Why did Aberdeen or A.N.OTHER not table a much larger offer from the outset. Edited February 4, 2015 by Gruffalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 There lies the problem in the running of the club. The power is with the Board they are the paymasters. You’re inferring in your statement that it is the players that are running the club and not the board. The reality is that the club only wish to offer long term deals to young (cheap) players. When said players show promise the club do not wish to tie them down to even longer deals as they would require to renegotiate the deals and pay some more. It was the board that have allowed him and McGinn to run down their contracts. It is the board that seem content in speculating on compensation deals rather than speculate on offering them proper deals to tie them to the club. Businesses that thrive speculate and change to meet the changing circumstances. It is the board that made the gentleman agreement with McLean As stated previously my issue is not what McLean went for. It was the lack of management of the player and that allowed him to have the power to decide he was leaving then re-join on his terms. I am sure that there could have been a compromise on the scenario that you pictured. On a separate point, if there was a gentleman agreement in place. How did Aberdeen know to offer the sum that allowed that agreement to be honoured. The fact the club turned down a derisory offer before from another club suggests that there was an agreement of what he was allowed to go for. Why did Aberdeen or A.N.OTHER not table a much larger offer from the outset. Exactly poor business model of short term/perceived low risk thinking. Dundee utd tied their youngsters to longer deals and have the power to negotiate we seem impotent with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 There lies the problem in the running of the club. The power is with the Board they are the paymasters. You’re inferring in your statement that it is the players that are running the club and not the board. The reality is that the club only wish to offer long term deals to young (cheap) players. When said players show promise the club do not wish to tie them down to even longer deals as they would require to renegotiate the deals and pay some more. It was the board that have allowed him and McGinn to run down their contracts. It is the board that seem content in speculating on compensation deals rather than speculate on offering them proper deals to tie them to the club. Businesses that thrive speculate and change to meet the changing circumstances. It is the board that made the gentleman agreement with McLean As stated previously my issue is not what McLean went for. It was the lack of management of the player and that allowed him to have the power to decide he was leaving then re-join on his terms. I am sure that there could have been a compromise on the scenario that you pictured. On a separate point, if there was a gentleman agreement in place. How did Aberdeen know to offer the sum that allowed that agreement to be honoured. The fact the club turned down a derisory offer before from another club suggests that there was an agreement of what he was allowed to go for. Why did Aberdeen or A.N.OTHER not table a much larger offer from the outset. How did Aberdeen know exactly what to offer to get McLean? They asked McLean's agent and he told them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 There lies the problem in the running of the club. The power is with the Board they are the paymasters. You’re inferring in your statement that it is the players that are running the club and not the board. The reality is that the club only wish to offer long term deals to young (cheap) players. When said players show promise the club do not wish to tie them down to even longer deals as they would require to renegotiate the deals and pay some more. It was the board that have allowed him and McGinn to run down their contracts. It is the board that seem content in speculating on compensation deals rather than speculate on offering them proper deals to tie them to the club. Businesses that thrive speculate and change to meet the changing circumstances. It is the board that made the gentleman agreement with McLean As stated previously my issue is not what McLean went for. It was the lack of management of the player and that allowed him to have the power to decide he was leaving then re-join on his terms. I am sure that there could have been a compromise on the scenario that you pictured. On a separate point, if there was a gentleman agreement in place. How did Aberdeen know to offer the sum that allowed that agreement to be honoured. The fact the club turned down a derisory offer before from another club suggests that there was an agreement of what he was allowed to go for. Why did Aberdeen or A.N.OTHER not table a much larger offer from the outset. They knew because that's the agents job. You can't tap, but agents have ways and means of getting that info around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 FUXAKE. Has he gone yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambud Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) There lies the problem in the running of the club. The power is with the Board they are the paymasters. You’re inferring in your statement that it is the players that are running the club and not the board. The reality is that the club only wish to offer long term deals to young (cheap) players. When said players show promise the club do not wish to tie them down to even longer deals as they would require to renegotiate the deals and pay some more. It was the board that have allowed him and McGinn to run down their contracts. It is the board that seem content in speculating on compensation deals rather than speculate on offering them proper deals to tie them to the club. Businesses that thrive speculate and change to meet the changing circumstances. It is the board that made the gentleman agreement with McLean As stated previously my issue is not what McLean went for. It was the lack of management of the player and that allowed him to have the power to decide he was leaving then re-join on his terms. I am sure that there could have been a compromise on the scenario that you pictured. On a separate point, if there was a gentleman agreement in place. How did Aberdeen know to offer the sum that allowed that agreement to be honoured. The fact the club turned down a derisory offer before from another club suggests that there was an agreement of what he was allowed to go for. Why did Aberdeen or A.N.OTHER not table a much larger offer from the outset. Edited February 5, 2015 by Hambud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambud Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 This might make you feel better http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/topic/212935-The-St-Mirren-2014/2015-Season-Thread#entry9194065 The St Mirren 2014/2015 Season Thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Now that the hoo-ha about Kenny has died down a bit here is my take on the situation. Kenny is 23 and over several transfer windows no-one was willing to pay a high price for him. Why was that? Maybe injury had an impact but inconsistency and playing the wrong role is the answer in my opinion. For me Kenny was pretty average in many games. We could see his skill set but too often he did not demonstrate it enough. Scott Booth worked with Kenny at Under-21 level and said on Sportsound last night that Kenny could go weeks being anonymous in games then play a blinder. Same in training with the Under-21s. So much so that he was being left out of squads because they did not know what Kenny would turn up. His inconsistency is what put potential buyers off. Kenny wasn't a standout from August to Dec this year. It was only when he was pushed forward that suddenly a new Kenny appeared and some consistency appeared. Added to that was his goal threat. The above table (link in previous post) also supports this. This season Kenny has had more shots on goal that anyone else in the SPFL (69) but a very low percentage on target. He also has a very low assist ratio as he just shoots on sight. That was because he would have pot-shots from 35 yards often over the bar when he played in deep midfield. He wasted the ball constantly. But people could see he could shoot and wanted to so why not move him further forward? It is only over Dec and January that he looks like a million pound player because he is being consistent and scoring goals. Maybe if we had played him further forward 2 years ago we would have got that 1 million. For me he has never looked like a million pound player up until now. However it is too late for us. If Aberdeen have any sense they will play him off a striker where he can be involved, take on players and shoot. If they play him deep he will disappear again like he did so often with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 BOLO (be on the lookout) issued by Police Scotland, K Division 10.45 3 February 2015....... Message. Prized asset (image below) stolen from St Mirren Park, between 10:00 - 23:59 2/2/15 Anyone who has information that can help solve this crime please contact your local police station Speed is of the essence, victim may be being held on an isolated sheep farm against will. http://www.futhead.com/14/career-mode/players/9504/kenny-mclean/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) BOLO (be on the lookout) issued by Police Scotland, K Division 10.45 3 February 2015....... Message. Prized asset (image below) stolen from St Mirren Park, between 10:00 - 23:59 2/2/15 Anyone who has information that can help solve this crime please contact your local police station Speed is of the essence, victim may be being held on an isolated sheep farm against will. http://www.futhead.com/14/career-mode/players/9504/kenny-mclean/ He looks as if he just got a whiff of the sheep..... Edited February 5, 2015 by pod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Now that the hoo-ha about Kenny has died down a bit here is my take on the situation. Kenny is 23 and over several transfer windows no-one was willing to pay a high price for him. Why was that? Maybe injury had an impact but inconsistency and playing the wrong role is the answer in my opinion. For me Kenny was pretty average in many games. We could see his skill set but too often he did not demonstrate it enough. Scott Booth worked with Kenny at Under-21 level and said on Sportsound last night that Kenny could go weeks being anonymous in games then play a blinder. Same in training with the Under-21s. So much so that he was being left out of squads because they did not know what Kenny would turn up. His inconsistency is what put potential buyers off. Kenny wasn't a standout from August to Dec this year. It was only when he was pushed forward that suddenly a new Kenny appeared and some consistency appeared. Added to that was his goal threat. The above table (link in previous post) also supports this. This season Kenny has had more shots on goal that anyone else in the SPFL (69) but a very low percentage on target. He also has a very low assist ratio as he just shoots on sight. That was because he would have pot-shots from 35 yards often over the bar when he played in deep midfield. He wasted the ball constantly. But people could see he could shoot and wanted to so why not move him further forward? It is only over Dec and January that he looks like a million pound player because he is being consistent and scoring goals. Maybe if we had played him further forward 2 years ago we would have got that 1 million. For me he has never looked like a million pound player up until now. However it is too late for us. If Aberdeen have any sense they will play him off a striker where he can be involved, take on players and shoot. If they play him deep he will disappear again like he did so often with us. I agree with elements of this post, Sonny, but I'm inclined to think that we'll struggle to get close to what we (the clueless mugs who follow this club)think we should for our better players because we are simply neither a fashionable selling club, nor do we have sufficient savvy at present to be one. Bear in mind that Sevco managed to get £850K+ for Lewis McLoad who was playing in a team from a lower division and are, well, pretty shite. However, that club just so happens (rightly or wrongly) to be regarded as a bigger fish. No-one will ever convince me that McLeod was worth 3X McLean's value. Dundee United are in the same category, while Hamilton have very good form in terms of selling their young and developing assets. People are correct when they say that a player is only worth what another club are willing to pay for him, but that isn't simply about ability. It is also about knowing how to play and manipulate the market, talking up your players, showing them off to their best, and having a slick enough PR machine to even get close to the radar of high profile potential buyers. SMFC is, for the most part, run like a greasy spoon cafe. It meets a basic, and pretty crude need, appeals to a certain clientele with limited expecations, and doesn't have any aspirations or ambitions to diversify or refine its operation. Why install a La Cimbali when you've got a kettle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Dundee Utd and Hamilton are both clubs who seem desperate to promote an image of rearing and developing their own players. The media love this and will go along with it, with local journos talking the clubs up at every opportunity. I doubt either club has the number of youth products in their first team squads that we have at the moment, but we are never really quoted as a club with a strong youth development ethos. We need to publicise our focus on youth a lot more and play the PR game with the media. McLean's a great example. Dropped by Rangers as a boy, came through our youth system, got his chance in the first team, played for Scotland Under 21s, scored in the cup run to winning the League Cup, before getting his move. We've got Naismith, Kelly, Mallan, Reilly, McLear & McGinn playing pretty regularly, and have had Baird, Brown and Morgan involved this season. We should be repeatedly highlighting that we are giving homegrown talent a chance even while we're in a relegation battle, while Well & County's squads tend to look like a 'who's he' of British football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 While I am still scunnered at what I regard as a steal by the sheepy people (fair play to them by the way for nicking Mclean, and admitting it was a steal), when we look at the fees commanded by Lewis McLeod from the Rangers, and Tony Andreu from Accies - look at the clubs they went to down South, and who the manager / assistant managers are at those clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) While I am still scunnered at what I regard as a steal by the sheepy people (fair play to them by the way for nicking Mclean, and admitting it was a steal), when we look at the fees commanded by Lewis McLeod from the Rangers, and Tony Andreu from Accies - look at the clubs they went to down South, and who the manager / assistant managers are at those clubs. Aye, but it wasn't the managers and/or their assistants who stumped up the poppy for the fees. I hear what you're saying, but I don't think these ties alone would account for the discrepancies, or our own inadequacies when it comes to marketing the club. ETA: I listened to Ronnie McDonald giving it all the chat about the lad Hendrie as I sat in traffic while heading over for the United game a couple of weeks back. Now there's an operator. You'd have thought he was sitting on the key to immortality the way he was talking up the player. All this shite about him not caring if he ever heard from West Ham again was simply another way of suggesting that they had plenty of other options on the table (they probably didn't!), and that they knew they would get their payday for the lad from one club or another. It was laughable stuff, but pretty damn slick for all that. Edited February 5, 2015 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Aye, but it wasn't the managers and/or their assistants who stumped up the poppy for the fees. I hear what you're saying, but I don't think these ties alone would account for the discrepancies, or our own inadequacies when it comes to marketing the club. Nope, but I'm struggling to think who would pay a milion for Tony Andreu - bar Alex Neil, who obviously benefits from introducing one of his 'own men' to his squad, while also helping out Accies. David Weir has obviously performed the same role for Brentford. The Rangers cannot afford to play hard ball - I would be willing to bet that if Davie Weir wasn't at Brentford, and Brentford still fancied a bid for McLeod, they'd have got him a helluva' lot cheaper than that. What we needed was for McLean to be playing to the standard he has been recently for the last two seasons, and for Paul Lambert at Villa to see a bit of himself there, and come in with a million. Didnae' happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Now that the hoo-ha about Kenny has died down a bit here is my take on the situation. Kenny is 23 and over several transfer windows no-one was willing to pay a high price for him. Why was that? Maybe injury had an impact but inconsistency and playing the wrong role is the answer in my opinion. For me Kenny was pretty average in many games. We could see his skill set but too often he did not demonstrate it enough. Scott Booth worked with Kenny at Under-21 level and said on Sportsound last night that Kenny could go weeks being anonymous in games then play a blinder. Same in training with the Under-21s. So much so that he was being left out of squads because they did not know what Kenny would turn up. His inconsistency is what put potential buyers off. Kenny wasn't a standout from August to Dec this year. It was only when he was pushed forward that suddenly a new Kenny appeared and some consistency appeared. Added to that was his goal threat. The above table (link in previous post) also supports this. This season Kenny has had more shots on goal that anyone else in the SPFL (69) but a very low percentage on target. He also has a very low assist ratio as he just shoots on sight. That was because he would have pot-shots from 35 yards often over the bar when he played in deep midfield. He wasted the ball constantly. But people could see he could shoot and wanted to so why not move him further forward? It is only over Dec and January that he looks like a million pound player because he is being consistent and scoring goals. Maybe if we had played him further forward 2 years ago we would have got that 1 million. For me he has never looked like a million pound player up until now. However it is too late for us. If Aberdeen have any sense they will play him off a striker where he can be involved, take on players and shoot. If they play him deep he will disappear again like he did so often with us. Good post- He was akin to Charlie Adam, whose career kinda of exploded after us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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