El Capitan. No, Not Cheesy.

[bluto]

I've no doubt that they are very fit and strong. I do think it is impressive but I still think that the fact that they both had falls which, if they never had the safety ropes, would otherwise have seen them fall all the way back down kind of negates the achievement a bit. Now, if when they had the "fall" they had started from the beginning again then fair enough, until they could have climbed it from bottom to top without falling. I don't care about them sleeping on the cliff etc and taking it in stages.

To me it's like saying that I walked the West Highland Way when I actually twisted my ankle, went home to rest it and then later drove back to the point where I twisted my ankle and started again from there. Had I walked the whole of the West Highland Way? Yes, of course I had but I hadn't "walked the West Highland Way". (That didn't happen by the way just in case anybody is wondering, I just made it up.) These guys were obviously saved from (at least) serious injury by their safety ropes and they can say that they have free climbed the whole of the El Capitan but, to me they can't say that they have "free climbed El Capitan". I think there is a difference, maybe you don't.

Doing what they did V WHW is chalk and cheese. And unlike a twisted ankle and going home, they stuck it out, throughout. The falls are planned for when doing any new rock route, built in. No one ever has done a new route, sight unseen at the level at which most of this route persists.

No offence, but few of you have ANY IDEA just how utterly incredible the quality and difficulty of the complete route is. I could climb a wee bit, but was never good enough to even hold the rope to get the band-aid up for their fingertips.

These are genuine, modern-day heroes. Not carrying adverts, not sponsored, not paid per metre - they've done this for themselves.

But if you prefer your sporting heroes to be overpaid mediocre, third grade soccer stars, who am I to disagree...?

[bluto]

Your examples aren't comparable. We fish to put food on the table, we prospect for oil to heat our homes, we climb mountains to..........erm, uh!

EXPAND HUMAN KNOWLEDGE, PUSH THE ENVELOPE, OPEN OUR MINDS. I GUESS IN THE OLDEN DAYS YOU'D HAVE BEEN THE GUY IN THE CAVE DISSING THE GUY NEXT DOOR WHO WAS PLAYING WITH FIRE. "He could get hurt by that - why not just eat cold food like the rest of us?!"

I have no issue with 'adventure seeking' per se. I've been to the top of mountains, I've trekked through the jungle, I was in the Armed Forces. Its the aspect of expecting some other poor sucker to come out to pick up the pieces because you want to enjoy yourself that I have an issue with.

I HAVE DEALT WITH THIS "lack of a point"THREE TIMES. I NOW GIVE UP.

And the base jump attempt WAS a vanity project. It would achieve NOTHING for mankind. It would only stoke the ego of the idiot who wanted to do it.

IT WAS ONE PERSON AMONG A HOST OF PEOPLE DOING THEMOUNTAIN. WE ALL HAVE WHAT YOU CALL VANITY PROJECTS AND OTHERS CALL INTERESTS.

Lets face it, you and I will never agree on this.

FROM THE OUTSET, I HAVE NOT BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. YOU ASKED QUESTIONS AND IGNORED THE ANSWERS I TRIED TO OFFER.

[Bud the Baker]

I suspect they don't care about that. It's having done it for themselves that drives real mountaineers. THEY know - that's all that matters.

Some people try to make a living out of it, but it's hard and unforgiving and a shorter professional life than a fitba player. There are wee bits to be made but hardly worth the effort. Some set out to be professional adventurers... seldom reckoned to be as good as they think themselves to be - and it's a treadmill being a "professional star adventurer". I envy none of them.

But the lads who've just done Dawn Wall...?

As a mountaineer, I admire them.

And f**k the begrudgers.

Publicity has obviously been a factor in this spectacle - are you saying these guys aren't real mountaineers?

[bluto]

Publicity has obviously been a factor in this spectacle - are you saying these guys aren't real mountaineers?

The ambition of the climb HAS BECOME a facet of the story.

Caldwell has been climbing for years; he has been planning and dreaming of this ascent for years; they were many days into the climb before I even heard it was on.

I think I've said they ARE excellent mountaineers.

[bluto]

I guess that Joe Public is confused about what is meant by 'free climbing' .

To mountaineers, 'free climbing' is as I've described it in posts above - done without resorting to drilling holes in the rock or chiselling out steps and notches...

Routes this tough cannot be ascended with one's hand in one's pockets, so I guess they'll never be free-climbed... for Ordinary People.

For me, the heroism is partly having the intellectual strength, the mental toughness and faith in your own ability to even contemplate undertaking such a breathtaking scale of climb.

They knew the rock was vertical, polished and unforgiving; they knew the weather could have been much worse: they knew their bodies (and fingertips) would be much abused; they knew there was a real chance of death. Accidents happen. Yet they went ahead. Heroes: they didn't 'conquer the mountain' as shallow journalists sometimes decribe it, but they tested themselves and were not found wanting.

As Gaston Rebuffat once said, "Sometimes mountains let you climb them".

Edited January 16, 2015 by bluto

[saint in exile]

Your examples aren't comparable. We fish to put food on the table, we prospect for oil to heat our homes, we climb mountains to..........erm, uh!

EXPAND HUMAN KNOWLEDGE, PUSH THE ENVELOPE, OPEN OUR MINDS. I GUESS IN THE OLDEN DAYS YOU'D HAVE BEEN THE GUY IN THE CAVE DISSING THE GUY NEXT DOOR WHO WAS PLAYING WITH FIRE. "He could get hurt by that - why not just eat cold food like the rest of us?!"

I have no issue with 'adventure seeking' per se. I've been to the top of mountains, I've trekked through the jungle, I was in the Armed Forces. Its the aspect of expecting some other poor sucker to come out to pick up the pieces because you want to enjoy yourself that I have an issue with.

I HAVE DEALT WITH THIS "lack of a point"THREE TIMES. I NOW GIVE UP.

And the base jump attempt WAS a vanity project. It would achieve NOTHING for mankind. It would only stoke the ego of the idiot who wanted to do it.

IT WAS ONE PERSON AMONG A HOST OF PEOPLE DOING THEMOUNTAIN. WE ALL HAVE WHAT YOU CALL VANITY PROJECTS AND OTHERS CALL INTERESTS.

Lets face it, you and I will never agree on this.

FROM THE OUTSET, I HAVE NOT BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. YOU ASKED QUESTIONS AND IGNORED THE ANSWERS I TRIED TO OFFER.

No need to shout. Just admit that we don't agree.

As for sitting in a cave dissing the guy next door. I've already pointed out to you that I've done my share of 'adventure stuff', so I don't see that comment is valid because just I don't agree with people dicing with death for fun.

Still, if it floats your boat.

[bluto]

No need to shout. Just admit that we don't agree.

As for sitting in a cave dissing the guy next door. I've already pointed out to you that I've done my share of 'adventure stuff', so I don't see that comment is valid because just I don't agree with people dicing with death for fun.

Still, if it floats your boat.

The CAPS were cos I was on an ipad - limited typing variety/capacity.

I have pointed out that many pastimes, hobbies, pursuits are full of risk and 'dice with death' for fun, even fitba, rugby, cricket... but you seem to have a specific and unjustifiable downer on mountaineering.

And now - the hypocrisy of all hypocrisies- you want me to go out in the High Seas in winter for fun!

Edited January 16, 2015 by bluto

[saint in exile]

The CAPS were cos I was on an ipad - limited typing variety/capacity.

I have pointed out that many pastimes, hobbies, pursuits are full of risk and 'dice with death' for fun, even fitba, rugby, cricket... but you seem to have a specific and unjustifiable downer on mountaineering.

And now - the hypocrisy of all hypocrisies- you want me to go out in the High Seas in winter for fun!

Are you really trying to compare football to mountaineering in terms of danger???? I think the rarified mountain air has left your brain with too little oxygen.

I don't have a specific downer on mountaineering. I just don't understand the desire to do it.

[bluto]

Are you really trying to compare football to mountaineering in terms of danger???? I think the rarified mountain air has left your brain with too little oxygen.

I don't have a specific downer on mountaineering. I just don't understand the desire to do it.

No. Quote where I did that.

I am pointing out for the umpteenth time that other sports and activities also have risk. People do get killed and injured playing football etc.

There are probably more people go on Scottish hills than play fitba. And per capita there are probably less injuries sustained. ( I read stats like that years ago.)

You don't understand the desire - I tried to explain. You still don't understand. Let it go.

Edited January 16, 2015 by bluto

[saint in exile]

No. Quote where I did that.

.....many pastimes, hobbies, pursuits are full of risk and 'dice with death' for fun, even fitba,....

I am pointing out for the umpteenth time that other sports and activities also have risk. People do get killed and injured playing football etc.

There are probably more people go on Scottish hills than play fitba. And per capita there are probably less injuries sustained. ( I read stats like that years ago.)

You don't understand the desire - I tried to explain. You still don't understand. Let it go.

[DougJamie]

The CAPS were cos I was on an ipad - limited typing variety/capacity.

I have pointed out that many pastimes, hobbies, pursuits are full of risk and 'dice with death' for fun, even fitba, rugby, cricket... but you seem to have a specific and unjustifiable downer on mountaineering.

And now - the hypocrisy of all hypocrisies- you want me to go out in the High Seas in winter for fun!

You both have qualified to be Saints fans for life, but I am somewhat dismayed that neither of have done Everest on a bike, or made a film about North Korean ethics, or to beat all that leaving at 6.30 tonight to go to Dingwall. One small step....................

Edited January 16, 2015 by DougJamie

[Bud the Baker]

The ambition of the climb HAS BECOME a facet of the story.

Caldwell has been climbing for years; he has been planning and dreaming of this ascent for years; they were many days into the climb before I even heard it was on.

I think I've said they ARE excellent mountaineers.

Where did I say they weren't excellent mountaineers - which in itself is a shift in meaning from the previous post where you defined them as real mountaineers because they were "doing it for themselves".

Four posts over a stunt I don't care much about, that's free pedantry - B&WArrmy's gift to the world!

Edited January 16, 2015 by Bud the Baker

[bluto]

I hate pedants.

when it's not me

[bluto]

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. I know what free climbing is. I understand why they attached themselves to safety ropes - they don't want to die. What I don't agree with is that they can claim to have free climbed El Capitan when they had falls. They can claim to have climbed it, because they did. They can claim to have climbed it in "one go", as they never went away and came back again. But to me, to be able to say that you have free climbed it you would have to have went back to the start again if you fell and were only saved by the safety rope. Safety equipment is necessary, I get that, but having to use it should, in my opinion, mean that they would have to start again. You know what, I don't really care. I'm impressed that they got to the top without "pulling themselves up". Is that good enough for you?

And I've no idea who Gaston Whatisface is. Was he the guy after Belle in Disney's Beauty and the Beast? Probably not.

Since people started climbing rocks as sport, they've used ropes to try to prevent death and injury. Technology has improved: there is less death and injury.

If these people haven't free-climbed this, then no one has ever free-climbed anything.

You DO understand the difference between what they did on Dawn Wall and what was done in its first ascent. They did it by dint of their own exertions.

By your analysis Everest has never been climbed.

One hill I went up in the Himalaya took me 21 days from Lukla airport to its summit. I spent nights in tents and -gasp! - even went back down to Base Camp from high on the hill a couple of times. I guess I never climbed that hill - by your rules.

Gaston Rebuffat was a brilliant (and articulate) French mountaineer... But you could have googled that. I bet you DID.

[bluto]

Maybe a useful analogy is this....

Sean Mallan scored a wonder goal but, as he didn't do it direct from kick-off, it should be discounted. He (and the team) tried several times previously to score goals but were repulsed. The only goals that are relevant are those in which the opposition played no part, could put up no defence. It doesn't matter that Sean eventually prevailed and overcame each hurdle placed in front of him - he'd had to start and re-start more than once, during play.

I hope this helps?

[bluto]

And here's something Gaston wrote:

"In this modern age, very little remains that is real.

Night has been banished, so have the cold, the wind and the stars. They have all been neutralized: the rhythm of life itself is obscured. Everything goes so fast and makes so much noise, and men hurry by without heeding the grass by the roadside, its colour, its smell and the way it shimmers when the wind caresses it.

What a strange encounter then is that between man and the high places of his planet! Up there he is surrounded by the silence of forgetfulness. If there is a slope of snow steep as a glass window, he climbs it, leaving behind him a strange trail. If there is a rock perfect as an obelisk, he defies gravity and proves that he can get up anywhere."

What those lads have done on Dawn Wall epitomises for me, the feeling Rebuffat's rustled up in his prose.

[RickMcD]

And here's something Gaston wrote:

"In this modern age, very little remains that is real.

Night has been banished, so have the cold, the wind and the stars. They have all been neutralized: the rhythm of life itself is obscured. Everything goes so fast and makes so much noise, and men hurry by without heeding the grass by the roadside, its colour, its smell and the way it shimmers when the wind caresses it.

What a strange encounter then is that between man and the high places of his planet! Up there he is surrounded by the silence of forgetfulness. If there is a slope of snow steep as a glass window, he climbs it, leaving behind him a strange trail. If there is a rock perfect as an obelisk, he defies gravity and proves that he can get up anywhere."

What those lads have done on Dawn Wall epitomises for me, the feeling Rebuffat's rustled up in his prose.

Well your Gaston gets great marks for great English. A lot of profundity. Or did he say it in French? Probably still sounds good in any language. Definitely not Gaston from Beauty and The Beast then. He was great at expectorating and that just wouldnae be very good on a climb with the guy below you getting a gobfull on the napper.

[bluto]

Tommy and Kevin talking this morning on the Today programme.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02h3phb

[iTony]

I was too intoxicated to be arsed.

That's not what Faraway Saint says.

[bluto]

Nnnnnnnn-ice!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-31037992

[bluto]

If the Yosemite climb was tough for those of you suffering vertigo, how about going for this bike ride?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994398/Heart-pounding-moment-biker-risks-life-attempts-horizontal-traverse-famed-White-Line-trail-Sedona-s-red-rock-cliffs.html

I'm no even sure I'd enjoy walking round it, tho... mibbe....

[salmonbuddie]

Love this bit:

However, it's not for everyone, so I strongly advise inexperienced riders against trying this line.'

Like that's ever even going to considered by anyone of (half) sound mind.

What you doing on your holibags, bluto?

[bluto]

What you doing on your holibags, bluto?

Next week, I told you - oan a boatie aff the coast of Norway, seeing the eclipse.

(I've already been up the biggest hills there - Galdhoppigen and Glittertind, also across the Hardangervidda and loads of other icy hills.)

Late April will be on Skye.

[antrin]

An return to this thread that wandered into….  Lwhy guys go up and down hills, because they want to”.  
 

This seemed the best place to post this…

Cycling. 

Modern style… and with panache…

 

By Danny McAskill of Dunvegan, Skye.

 

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/danny-macaskill-the-slab-film-and-interview

 

Doing the Dubhs…. As hill walkers call it.  It’s hard enough heading uphill on the grippiest of grippy gabbro on Earth for nearly 3000 feet, but what an amazing controlled descent by Danny!  Breathtaking.

 

At least as perilous as his trip some years back, along the main Cuillin ridge when he visited The Inaccessible Pinnacle…

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA

 

 

.

[Rascal]

On 6/1/2022 at 1:25 PM, antrin said:

An return to this thread that wandered into….  Lwhy guys go up and down hills, because they want to”.  
 

This seemed the best place to post this…

Cycling. 

Modern style… and with panache…

 

By Danny McAskill of Dunvegan, Skye.

 

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/danny-macaskill-the-slab-film-and-interview

 

Doing the Dubhs…. As hill walkers call it.  It’s hard enough heading uphill on the grippiest of grippy gabbro on Earth for nearly 3000 feet, but what an amazing controlled descent by Danny!  Breathtaking.

 

At least as perilous as his trip some years back, along the main Cuillin ridge when he visited The Inaccessible Pinnacle…

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA

 

 

.

Amazing but not for me. Why people climb hills or cycle up hills, I don’t know. Popular pass times though! Our neighbour has constructed a climbing wall within his house. Strange but true.