TsuMirren Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I get what your saying. My preferred bid was the English one though I don't know the finer detail. The Argentine bid put fear into me , rightly or wrongly I can't get out of my head why people who live more than a 15 hour flight to London away would want to purchase St Mirren unless they could see a way of making "good" money. Remember they are not going to be watching many home games never mind away games unless of course it comes out the club for traveling expenses. Profits would be filtered through to Argentina. What would be put back into the club by a bunch of guy's who have connection to the club apart from ownership from a far off distant land. When Div wrote the deal was on I was truly worried. However I would be gob smacked if the board went for this deal it does not take a lot of thinking to add the word "fishy" to this proposed deal. I do wonder why they're in, what the ultimate goal is. Reading around, I've seen conflicting reports. The fan interviewed by Graeme states they didn't care about the fans, but in interviews Pini states they did and they were looking to build an academy to develop players. The fan also mentions the black list, but nothing about actual tax evasion. So, it's listed as a possible tax haven though there's nothing to say Pini was actually charged or the club punished. The fan talks about the moving on of players, but ironically the club just sold a lad to Werder Bremen who was loaned out straight after signing from Palermo. (Fair enough, that might be the new regime striking lucky by benefitting from a pre-Pini leaving deal). Is the interview with the fan, like so often happens here, the views of a fan making more than was there because of promotion then relegation or is it legit? I can only hope the Board have asked the right questions. Why are they in? Will they fill the squad with transient players? I don't know if Scottish clubs can be used for players to get permits as say Belgium can...is that one aspect? Did dealing with Palermo wet their appetite for Europe? Have they seen the Ralston and felt we're part the way to their ultimate goal at CSD Rangers Talca? The whole thing in Graeme's article about "they treated us like a business...", is it really so bad? They could never talk to any of us and we'd be happy so long as they make money legitemately and bring some success or even stability and an occasional cup final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/sport/football/q-a-what-can-st-mirren-fans-expect-from-south-american-owners.116192278 This piece written by Graeme macpherson needs to be read. Interview with fan of chilean rangers, goes into detail about ricardo pini's time in charge and it is isn't comfortable reading How did the consortium reach a point of being so desperate for their money they are willing to even entertain these people? The fan was also a former football commentator for Chilean TV Q. It looks like Pini will soon buy St Mirren. Do you think this will be a positive development for that club or not? What can the St Mirren fans expect? A. I don't think that is good news for them. From experience it will be a deal done for economic purposes rather because of any real interest in what happens on the field. I have nothing personal against Mr Pini but from analysing his time at Rangers there was little there designed to bring joy to the supporters. If there is a way to prevent him buying their club, I would urge the St Mirren fans to do all they can. Nobody can assume a love for a club overnight and ultimately that's what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Do you mean "big" or "tall" not that I am paranoid Aye.: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The fan was also a former football commentator for Chilean TV Q. It looks like Pini will soon buy St Mirren. Do you think this will be a positive development for that club or not? What can the St Mirren fans expect? A. I don't think that is good news for them. From experience it will be a deal done for economic purposes rather because of any real interest in what happens on the field. I have nothing personal against Mr Pini but from analysing his time at Rangers there was little there designed to bring joy to the supporters. If there is a way to prevent him buying their club, I would urge the St Mirren fans to do all they can. Nobody can assume a love for a club overnight and ultimately that's what matters. All I can say to that is, "DUH!" Not exactly an exclusive that he would be looking for profit. IF the deal goes through, (and as time passes so does the likelihood of it doing so), we can only hope the by-product of his attempt at financial gain helps rather than hinders Saint Mirren's cause. It's out of our hands as we did not, collectively, take charge of our own destiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmc83 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 And you can just imagine someone interviewing Dorothy about our chairman. How do you think that interview would look? Personally, I'm against this deal (not that it makes any difference) but one interview with one fan can't tell the whole story. Completely agree basing a whole article on 1 fan is pretty pure journalism IMO, obviously it doesn't make great reading but after 5 years it's shows the current BOD arnt just going to sell to anybody and I'm pretty positive they have done the appropriate research Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I wouldn't dismiss this article. If a fraction of that behaviour occurs at St Mirren it will be the end of the club. Good supporters are already fed up and losing interest. I am very surprised that the BoD have not already said thanks but no thanks to this consortium. I hope that the BoD think very carefully and don't destroy their own credibility and legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/sport/football/q-a-what-can-st-mirren-fans-expect-from-south-american-owners.116192278 This piece written by Graeme macpherson needs to be read. Interview with fan of chilean rangers, goes into detail about ricardo pini's time in charge and it is isn't comfortable reading How did the consortium reach a point of being so desperate for their money they are willing to even entertain these people? Everyone needs to read this, especially the gullible that had us sold to the English shysters! This mob have one aim and that is to use our club to "facilitate" their highly questionable player/tax dealings that crucified the Chilean club they breezed into town and bought. The words No! No! and No! should be upper most in your mind when thinking.... "Should these tax evading, scurrilous transfer dealing, Argentinian wide boys be associated with OUR club?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 All I can say to that is, "DUH!" Not exactly an exclusive that he would be looking for profit. IF the deal goes through, (and as time passes so does the likelihood of it doing so), we can only hope the by-product of his attempt at financial gain helps rather than hinders Saint Mirren's cause. It's out of our hands as we did not, collectively, take charge of our own destiny. Its in our hands because if we don't fund them they'll do one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I do wonder why they're in, what the ultimate goal is. Reading around, I've seen conflicting reports. The fan interviewed by Graeme states they didn't care about the fans, but in interviews Pini states they did and they were looking to build an academy to develop players. The fan also mentions the black list, but nothing about actual tax evasion. So, it's listed as a possible tax haven though there's nothing to say Pini was actually charged or the club punished. The fan talks about the moving on of players, but ironically the club just sold a lad to Werder Bremen who was loaned out straight after signing from Palermo. (Fair enough, that might be the new regime striking lucky by benefitting from a pre-Pini leaving deal). Is the interview with the fan, like so often happens here, the views of a fan making more than was there because of promotion then relegation or is it legit? I can only hope the Board have asked the right questions. Why are they in? Will they fill the squad with transient players? I don't know if Scottish clubs can be used for players to get permits as say Belgium can...is that one aspect? Did dealing with Palermo wet their appetite for Europe? Have they seen the Ralston and felt we're part the way to their ultimate goal at CSD Rangers Talca? The whole thing in Graeme's article about "they treated us like a business...", is it really so bad? They could never talk to any of us and we'd be happy so long as they make money legitemately and bring some success or even stability and an occasional cup final. Yeah they thought all of that at Greyskull too! how many big red flashing lights and sirens do you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) IT'S ABOUT THE SOUL OF OUR CLUB. (Aye, I'm aware of how poncy that sounds...) For some years now, I've grown more and more disenchanted by Scottish fitba (commercialised fitba in general, I guess). Scotland became a sham when it hired a foreign manager and played so many not-quite-Scottish players in it. (I've still been to every Scottish game south of the border since 1979... it's been by chance, lately - my heart's not in it.) Not only Scotland, of course. "If they do why shouldn't we?" What's the point of having National teams if the National part of the deal is so diluted? Champions League gives you sight of all sorts of foreign prima donnas if you like that kind of stuff, night after boring night. I will only bother to watch Scotland and St Mirren. At least I would once upon a time... but the fairy tale is no longer as attractive. St Mirren? Aye, it's my team. Every visit to Paisley is scheduled to somehow get to see the Buddies (and my Buddies), if possible. Is my heart in that? I think it still is, despite the onslaught of negativity and that grey, dull concrete box. When my Buddies are not around I still go alone and have been lucky enough to bump into other Buddies (some first met via this forum!). I get pleasure out of meeting with London Saints... maybe it's just to hear Buddies talking normally... but it's usually fun, and a few beers in which to drown our sorrows. There's the Sevco fiasco, where a club that has ripped millions from the general public to finance its vainglorious pursuit of success, has died but the authorities pretend it survived an event no other business has survived. Ever! Cheats running a so-called 'sport' for the benefit of other cheats - and all, it appears, acceptable to the managements of all other clubs in the Leagues. Only a fans revolt made them see partial truth and fairness, but they're still trying to cheat. Apart from the opening line above, I never now type or speak of 'US' or 'our' or 'we' - I no longer find it easy to identify myself with temporary, highly paid, transient hired hands of whatever nationality. (Thommo and Cheesy are absolved... ) I know I wouldn't be missed. I know there will be those who would say, "f**k off, then, you're hardly ever here. we don't need you". I would just be one of the thousands who no longer bother... The idea of our/the club being passed off to non-Buddie hands is possibly the final straw, a shite state of affairs... Especially if, indeed, it would be simply to serve as a tax-avoidance vehicle. Where's the soul in that? Edited January 15, 2015 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 ibrox.jpg Clearly a photoshop job. That chap looks far too lifelike to be him. The Herald article makes rather worrying reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yeah they thought all of that at Greyskull too! how many big red flashing lights and sirens do you need? Enough to go and do some research and hope the board do the same. There's really not much else any of us can do. I've done mine, here's hoping the board have too. If this doesn't go through then we're left with a situation where the board, apparently, strung along one consortium and the fans just want local with heart and soul in the club. Other consortiums will be careful, indeed at this point they should be researching our board. Meanwhile, control from our fans . The English showed ambition and looked to have a decent setup. Fans complained, but then really only show ambition to takeover once we're relegated or starting over as The Saint Mirren. Oh and God forbid any Saints fans use a non-fan agent to facilitate the purchase or non-fan businesses to provide finance. To add, I don't see Gordon or Ken just accepting any old deal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 To add, I don't see Gordon or Ken just accepting any old deal either. I was under the impression from what you posted earlier in the thread that Gordon's and Ken's input has been limited to them selling their shares to Gilmour et al in order for the latter to be in the more attractive position of being able to sell a 75% shareholding in the club? Is the suggestion now that they haven't released their shares after all, and are effectively part of the consortium inasmuch as they will be involved in negotiations - something I have to very much doubt. If this is the case, it makes an absolute mockery of Gilmour's position post McGeochgate. One would have to assume that the consortium, having failed to sell their collective 52% shareholding have become sufficiently desperate to get out that they are willing to invite McGeoch into bed. If so, that would inevitably lead to serious questions as to their credentials for undertaking due diligence in terms of prospective buyers. Alternatively, of course, they might have pitched in to effectively buy McGeoch and Scott out altogether, in which case neither would have any influence whatsoever in who the club is sold to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Enough to go and do some research and hope the board do the same. There's really not much else any of us can do. I've done mine, here's hoping the board have too. If this doesn't go through then we're left with a situation where the board, apparently, strung along one consortium and the fans just want local with heart and soul in the club. Other consortiums will be careful, indeed at this point they should be researching our board. Meanwhile, control from our fans . The English showed ambition and looked to have a decent setup. Fans complained, but then really only show ambition to takeover once we're relegated or starting over as The Saint Mirren. Oh and God forbid any Saints fans use a non-fan agent to facilitate the purchase or non-fan businesses to provide finance. To add, I don't see Gordon or Ken just accepting any old deal either. We all need to read between the lines. my take is, and it is only my take that the selling consortium are giving more credence to suitors they would have previously body-swerved from the off. the question we should be asking is why? is it done in the hope that a more palatable proposition (even a fan led one) will materialise in an 11th hour "lets save it from the tax dodgers" plea??? Or perhaps, and this is what I'm leaning towards because i don't think the sellers are that cute. a situation where they are now willing to just shift it to whoever can meet their price as long as it isn't borrowed against the clubs assets (at least initially). That way they can say "well we sold it to the English lot because they were going to install a great Director of football, coaches and an extensive scouting system to compliment the academy. we didn't know they only wanted to fill the car park with holidaymakers motors and build a travelodge on top of the dome" or... "we sold it to the argies because they were going to fill Ralston with more stunning young Argentine footballer than you could shake your boleros at, who knew they were a bunch of tax dodging club wreckers?" reading between the lines... I fear the latter! Edited January 15, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) In response to an earlier point about our first concern being 'they're foreign' and that tarring us with a bigoted 'Sevco brush'. No it doesn't. Absolutely 100% no. My first concern is.... 'they're foreign'. Aye, because of Romanov at Hearts, Massone at Livvy, Stefano at Dundee, Anelka at Raith... could even mention Vincent Tan at Cardiff who did not seem to care much about the history and fabric (literally!) of that club, changing their traditional kit to something deemed a lucky colour in Asia? What about the Venkys at Blackburn. The first Americans at Liverpool were not popular, neither were the Glazers at Man Utd. The major success stories seem to be Abramovich at Chelsea and Mansoor at City - but we are talking genuine off the radar wealth and massive glamour clubs in one of the world's top leagues here, not a relegation threatened small club in a relatively minor European league, with no recent history of threatening European qualification or, well, pretty much anything bar bobbing along quietly with March 17 2013 popping up after 26 years. Let's say a consortium of Billy Davies, Ally McCoist and Graeme Souness announced they were buying St Mirren. I would get it, would understand it - they are football men, the obvious Rangers connection between them would not worry me. I could GET it. I do not get at all why an Argentinian consortium would be any good for St Mirren. No more than I would understand it should I learn that a handful of Scottish lawyers and businessmen were buying a club in, oh, let's say Mexico. If I were a fan of a Mexican 'St Mirren', playing to 3,000 every week and always in the shadow of the big Mexico City clubs, and heard a bunch of Scotsmen were buying us, guarantee you, 'WTF!' would be my reaction there too. In regard to the consortium doing what's right - for St Mirren. I believed that five years ago. I said they have earned the right to be trusted, but five years down the line, with their The Rangers reaction fresh in my mind, and the silence and stupor surrounding the last three to four years of their tenure, and the ultimate failure of the long drawn out 10000hours discussions - my faith has been seriously diluted. Worrying times if this deal is true. IMHO. Edited January 15, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 A quick look at CSD Rangers transfer dealings does show large numbers in/out. I don't have time to gauge if guys are on a revolving door, also possibly some natural turnover due to league placing. I can't see any proof of multiple millions of pounds exchanging hands each season. Oh and Poz, I agree with all of your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) Time to see these shysters off. I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but a tax avoidance scheme sounds like it could leave us in a major hole. Edited January 15, 2015 by djchapsticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I do wonder why they're in, what the ultimate goal is. Reading around, I've seen conflicting reports. The fan interviewed by Graeme states they didn't care about the fans, but in interviews Pini states they did and they were looking to build an academy to develop players. The fan also mentions the black list, but nothing about actual tax evasion. So, it's listed as a possible tax haven though there's nothing to say Pini was actually charged or the club punished. The fan talks about the moving on of players, but ironically the club just sold a lad to Werder Bremen who was loaned out straight after signing from Palermo. (Fair enough, that might be the new regime striking lucky by benefitting from a pre-Pini leaving deal). Is the interview with the fan, like so often happens here, the views of a fan making more than was there because of promotion then relegation or is it legit? I can only hope the Board have asked the right questions. Why are they in? Will they fill the squad with transient players? I don't know if Scottish clubs can be used for players to get permits as say Belgium can...is that one aspect? Did dealing with Palermo wet their appetite for Europe? Have they seen the Ralston and felt we're part the way to their ultimate goal at CSD Rangers Talca? The whole thing in Graeme's article about "they treated us like a business...", is it really so bad? They could never talk to any of us and we'd be happy so long as they make money legitemately and bring some success or even stability and an occasional cup final. I do wonder why they're in, what the ultimate goal is. Reading around, I've seen conflicting reports. The fan interviewed by Graeme states they didn't care about the fans, but in interviews Pini states they did and they were looking to build an academy to develop players. The fan also mentions the black list, but nothing about actual tax evasion. So, it's listed as a possible tax haven though there's nothing to say Pini was actually charged or the club punished. The fan talks about the moving on of players, but ironically the club just sold a lad to Werder Bremen who was loaned out straight after signing from Palermo. (Fair enough, that might be the new regime striking lucky by benefitting from a pre-Pini leaving deal). Is the interview with the fan, like so often happens here, the views of a fan making more than was there because of promotion then relegation or is it legit? I can only hope the Board have asked the right questions. Why are they in? Will they fill the squad with transient players? I don't know if Scottish clubs can be used for players to get permits as say Belgium can...is that one aspect? Did dealing with Palermo wet their appetite for Europe? Have they seen the Ralston and felt we're part the way to their ultimate goal at CSD Rangers Talca? The whole thing in Graeme's article about "they treated us like a business...", is it really so bad? They could never talk to any of us and we'd be happy so long as they make money legitemately and bring some success or even stability and an occasional cup final. A fan is always going to have a biased view though reading between the lines there will be truth in there. One thing is for sure it was not a rosy garden for that club. You must agree these guys are not a charity there here to make money. 1/ They live in a country that would make then unaccountable if things go pear shape. 2/ These two things are enough for me to fear the worst. Our strategy should always be to look at the worst case scenario given the above two points we should give a polite thank you but no thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The fact that the fan is also a sports commentator on Chilean TV gives a lot more credence to the article than just interviewing a fan in the Last Post. The commentator is aware of libel, has 'behind the scenes' sources for information and has his reputation to uphold. Yes he may be another Chick Young but surely there are no two Chick Youngs on the planet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 We should not forget Motherwell knocked back their offer, Motherwell the club that has been making major cut backs. So it's good enough for St Mirren but not good enough for Motherwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The Herald article is reasonably well researched. At least they went through the channels to get a balanced view from someone in Chile (albeit a supporter of the said Rangers) as to the Argentinian ownership period. For those unaware of what was written here is the article: Q&A: What can St Mirren fans expect from South American owners? Graeme Macpherson Sports Writer Wednesday 14 January 2015 AFTER five and half years on the market, a takeover of St Mirren is thought to be finally nearing completion. AFTER five and half years on the market, a takeover of St Mirren is thought to be finally nearing completion. The buyers are a South American consortium led by Ricardo Pini, an Argentinian lawyer. Pini's last involvement was with the Chilean club CSD Rangers, he and his brother Sebastian taking ownership of the club, based in the city of Talca, in 2010 following an auction to take them out of bankruptcy. On their watch the club won promotion into the top division in 2011, before being relegated again last year at which point Pini relinquished his control of the club. It was a tumultuous four-year stint, full of highs and lows as well as a few moments of controversy. Herald Sport spoke to Pablo Sepulveda, a former football commentator on Chilean TV and a lifelong Rangers fan, for the lowdown on Pini and on what the St Mirren fans can expect should the takeover be completed. Q. What are your main memories of Ricardo Pini from his time at Rangers? A. I remember there was high expectation in Talca when he took over. Rangers had been in bankruptcy so the fans were hoping for a bright future - both in an economic and sporting sense - with all the problems left in the past. Over time, however, we learned that Mr Pini was focused just on the business side of things, and the social and football aspects were not important to him. The fans did not matter to him and the traditions of the club were forgotten. Rangers has been going for more than 100 years without ever being champions so their fans are renowned for being very faithful. That loyalty was trampled over. Q. What did he achieve during that period in charge? A. Supposedly he wanted to consolidate Rangers in the top division. But gradually we saw that his primary interest was economics. Traditions are important to the fans and soon they started to walk away from their club. Mr Pini's occasional comments in the media didn't help either, with him often dismissing the fans' complaints. Q. What was Pini's relationship like with the fans and the Chilean media in general? A. The relationship with the fans was uncertain at first. He had the chance to win the affection and support of the people but chose not to engage with them. Rangers is a club with roots in a traditional area of Chile - Rangers and Talca go hand in hand. Mr Pini, though, did not appreciate that and, therefore, failed at the club. As time went on, the situation got worse with supporters demanding he left and the club returned to more understanding hands. His relationship with the media was also not great because he rarely spoke and ran the club from afar. Q. What do you know or remember about Pini's takeover at Rangers? (When his group paid around £500,000 to take the club out of bankruptcy, after two previous attempts had failed. The purchase was originally ruled void by the courts due to an alleged fault with the process, before the appeals court overturned that decision to allow the deal to go ahead). A. It was all very strange. Several bids were made because Rangers was in bankruptcy. The Pinis were not known in the city, arrived unexpectedly, made an offer and got the club at a low price. At first their deal encountered unexpected legal problems before finally the club was in possession of foreigners (Argentines). The first auction bid failed only on a technicality, the second because the company involved did not have enough money. At the third auction attempt, Mr Pini won ahead of two other bids. Q. And what do you know or remember about Pini's exit from Rangers? A. His departure came after relegation amid a lot of pressure from supporters had become very upset with Mr Pini and his work. They were annoyed by the matter of "triangulation" (where a player will leave Club A to sign for Club B but go via Club C - who the player will never or very rarely turn out for - for in a bid to reduce costs and tax liability). A lot of players were signed for Rangers but then immediately loaned out and never played for the team. This was done for economic reasons only. That was seen as disrespectful by the fans. What they viewed as a football institution with a lot of history had become just a vehicle for business. That was painful for the supporters. Q. What can you tell me about the Carlos Sanchez deal? (Sanchez, now with Aston Villa, was signed by Rangers from Valenciennes then immediately loaned back to the French club for five years before signing shortly after for Elche in Spain. The transfer was one, among many, investigated by Cash Investigation, the French equivalent of Panorama, who, upon interviewing Sanchez, discovered that he had never set foot in Talca. A Buenos Aires magistrate included Rangers on a "black list" of clubs they considered "tax havens") A. Regarding Sanchez, I can only know what I read in the press. He was a player who went on the books of Rangers but never went through Talca. I saw an article in the French media where he was asked about Rangers, the city and the fans. He admitted he didn't know anything about any of it. Q. What was the highlight of Pini's time at Rangers? A. The highlight was winning promotion to the top division in 2011 courtesy of a dramatic 3-3 draw with Everton that will remain long in the memory. There was also a good first campaign in 2012 when the team reached the semi-finals of the cup and was in the running to become champions for the first time in the club's history. Q. And the low point? A. In sporting terms the lowest point was the decline in 2013 with a team lacking in quality and players not playing for the jersey. There was also the contempt shown to the fans when twice, for games against O'Higgins and Católica, most of the stadium was given over to the away support, including the traditional home Rangers end. That was the last straw for many fans. Q. It looks like Pini will soon buy St Mirren. Do you think this will be a positive development for that club or not? What can the St Mirren fans expect? A. I don't think that is good news for them. From experience it will be a deal done for economic purposes rather because of any real interest in what happens on the field. I have nothing personal against Mr Pini but from analysing his time at Rangers there was little there designed to bring joy to the supporters. If there is a way to prevent him buying their club, I would urge the St Mirren fans to do all they can. Nobody can assume a love for a club overnight and ultimately that's what matters. As said previously if I was a supporter of a smallish, but solvent football club in Buenos Aires and along came some business conglomerate from Scotland, saying that they wanted to buy the club, I think I might be a little suspicious!!!! I now firmly want the BoD's to go. I have admired their tenure and their enthusiasm (especially as supporters) to get the club back on an even financial footing, but as in all business matters, there is a time to exit, and that time is now. Having said the above, I could see why they would grasp at straws (which I think the Argentinian approach is), and I would go as far as to venture the opinion that they might well jump into this type of relationship just to finally get out of their current commitments, but as previously said, many foreign dabblings in Scottish football has only ended in tears................ as I think this one would too. My word of advice to the BoD's (if they care to at least listen to it) ......don't do this deal, for the sake of the supporters, the club as a whole and the risk that they do use the club for nefarious 'business' dealings and leave us in a worse state than we are at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 We should not forget Motherwell knocked back their offer, Motherwell the club that has been making major cut backs. So it's good enough for St Mirren but not good enough for Motherwell Motherwell had all but committed to the fan ownership model though. We, well we know the story. I took one quick look at another Chilean club, Universidad, and the in/out numbers aren't far off in season 12/13 & 11/12. There are a number of loans, but then Italian clubs also utilise a lot of loans. The transfermrket (not a typo) site will let you see numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Motherwell had all but committed to the fan ownership model though. We, well we know the story. I took one quick look at another Chilean club, Universidad, and the in/out numbers aren't far off in season 12/13 & 11/12. There are a number of loans, but then Italian clubs also utilise a lot of loans. The transfermrket (not a typo) site will let you see numbers. Look at the detail, where did players seemingly signed by one club end up? you can stick your head in the sand for as long as you like, these shysters have form and its out there for all to form their opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 In response to an earlier point about our first concern being 'they're foreign' and that tarring us with a bigoted 'Sevco brush'. No it doesn't. Absolutely 100% no. My first concern is.... 'they're foreign'. Aye, because of Romanov at Hearts, Massone at Livvy, Stefano at Dundee, Anelka at Raith... could even mention Vincent Tan at Cardiff who did not seem to care much about the history and fabric (literally!) of that club, changing their traditional kit to something deemed a lucky colour in Asia? What about the Venkys at Blackburn. The first Americans at Liverpool were not popular, neither were the Glazers at Man Utd. The major success stories seem to be Abramovich at Chelsea and Mansoor at City - but we are talking genuine off the radar wealth and massive glamour clubs in one of the world's top leagues here, not a relegation threatened small club in a relatively minor European league, with no recent history of threatening European qualification or, well, pretty much anything bar bobbing along quietly with March 17 2013 popping up after 26 years. Let's say a consortium of Billy Davies, Ally McCoist and Graeme Souness announced they were buying St Mirren. I would get it, would understand it - they are football men, the obvious Rangers connection between them would not worry me. I could GET it. I do not get at all why an Argentinian consortium would be any good for St Mirren. No more than I would understand it should I learn that a handful of Scottish lawyers and businessmen were buying a club in, oh, let's say Mexico. If I were a fan of a Mexican 'St Mirren', playing to 3,000 every week and always in the shadow of the big Mexico City clubs, and heard a bunch of Scotsmen were buying us, guarantee you, 'WTF!' would be my reaction there too. In regard to the consortium doing what's right - for St Mirren. I believed that five years ago. I said they have earned the right to be trusted, but five years down the line, with their The Rangers reaction fresh in my mind, and the silence and stupor surrounding the last three to four years of their tenure, and the ultimate failure of the long drawn out 10000hours discussions - my faith has been seriously diluted. Worrying times if this deal is true. IMHO. I was going to write a detailed post, but this has it nailed and sums up my thoughts nicely. The only thing in the back of my mind is that we are likely to go down which would further hurt a sale. Is there an element of cutting losses and moving on involved here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 IT'S ABOUT THE SOUL OF OUR CLUB. (Aye, I'm aware of how poncy that sounds...) For some years now, I've grown more and more disenchanted by Scottish fitba (commercialised fitba in general, I guess). Scotland became a sham when it hired a foreign manager and played so many not-quite-Scottish players in it. (I've still been to every Scottish game south of the border since 1979... it's been by chance, lately - my heart's not in it.) Not only Scotland, of course. "If they do why shouldn't we?" What's the point of having National teams if the National part of the deal is so diluted? Champions League gives you sight of all sorts of foreign prima donnas if you like that kind of stuff, night after boring night. I will only bother to watch Scotland and St Mirren. At least I would once upon a time... but the fairy tale is no longer as attractive. St Mirren? Aye, it's my team. Every visit to Paisley is scheduled to somehow get to see the Buddies (and my Buddies), if possible. Is my heart in that? I think it still is, despite the onslaught of negativity and that grey, dull concrete box. When my Buddies are not around I still go alone and have been lucky enough to bump into other Buddies (some first met via this forum!). I get pleasure out of meeting with London Saints... maybe it's just to hear Buddies talking normally... but it's usually fun, and a few beers in which to drown our sorrows. There's the Sevco fiasco, where a club that has ripped millions from the general public to finance its vainglorious pursuit of success, has died but the authorities pretend it survived an event no other business has survived. Ever! Cheats running a so-called 'sport' for the benefit of other cheats - and all, it appears, acceptable to the managements of all other clubs in the Leagues. Only a fans revolt made them see partial truth and fairness, but they're still trying to cheat. Apart from the opening line above, I never now type or speak of 'US' or 'our' or 'we' - I no longer find it easy to identify myself with temporary, highly paid, transient hired hands of whatever nationality. (Thommo and Cheesy are absolved... ) I know I wouldn't be missed. I know there will be those who would say, "f**k off, then, you're hardly ever here. we don't need you". I would just be one of the thousands who no longer bother... The idea of our/the club being passed off to non-Buddie hands is possibly the final straw, a shite state of affairs... Especially if, indeed, it would be simply to serve as a tax-avoidance vehicle. Where's the soul in that? Best post on this Topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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