Lord Pityme Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have supported Saints 38 years , that works out at 332000 hours. The asking price is £1500000 , which equates to £4.51 an hour which is massively below min wage. I feel as if I personally let BOD down as I could have afforded this, If the BOD are prepared to wait to 2053 I promise I will start saving now #Je Suis That Buddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smfcbuddie Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 compared to st mirren, hearts have a huge number of fans signed up and paying, have had a lot of debt wiped and they take in far more in every income stream than st mirren ever will the issue was always too few people paying too much and the dependence we would have had on the community payback of soft loans No way. Three times as many fans signed up to pay £10 per month as 10000hours were looking for initially. So how is that too few or the cost too much? Ultimately the loans could have been forgone assuming 10000hours met the funders community engagement targets, so we might never have had to repay the full sums. If anything the deal on the table was better than Hearts and that is pretty good. In any case it was miles ahead of where we are now in my opinion. Not one of us knows what is going on, if or when something will happen and we certainly won't be asked to be full or part owners. Now we can just wait and hope for the best on and off the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I put on last night about the Girona bid, as I thought it was something that should be known and hadn't been posted elsewhere. Scott Burns has clarified this now So we know now where Scott Burns get his info from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I think folk are reading too much into this and making me out to be something I'm not. I hear bits of information from various sources. Some I trust, some I don't. Some I publish, some I don't. This information came from a good source, and I felt it was definitely in the best interests of the fans to know about it. It was initially rubbished on Sunday, then as the week has progressed it has been validated by the mainstream media. Even in the last hour there were tweets and stories suggesting the Argies had buggered off to Spain to buy Girona, only for Scott Burns to then rubbish that by saying they are 100% focussed on buying St.Mirren ! The deal was agreed in principle late last week, and was expected to complete this week (ie; Money changes hands, shares change hands). When it actually completes I don't know. I guess there is still a chance it might yet crash and burn but it's so far advanced I'd think that is unlikely. I don't get the impression anyone is questioning you, more that they are questioning your source perhaps playing a game and feeding something which he knew would lead to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Did you kill Kennedy? Yes or no . Campbell ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't get the impression anyone is questioning you, more that they are questioning your source perhaps playing a game and feeding something which he knew would lead to this. Lead to what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Lead to what ? The frenzy of speculation, claim, counter claim and basically just get the club in the media. Take fans minds of the fact we are currently pish and need signings. Again it's pure speculation, but maybe it was just to get things shifted up a gear if it seemed to be stalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 So we urnae selt yet. That's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 No way. Three times as many fans signed up to pay £10 per month as 10000hours were looking for initially. So how is that too few or the cost too much? Ultimately the loans could have been forgone assuming 10000hours met the funders community engagement targets, so we might never have had to repay the full sums. If anything the deal on the table was better than Hearts and that is pretty good. In any case it was miles ahead of where we are now in my opinion. Not one of us knows what is going on, if or when something will happen and we certainly won't be asked to be full or part owners. Now we can just wait and hope for the best on and off the park. The point I made was the massive difference in numbers and paying customers between ourselves and hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The most disappointing part of this is, for me anyway, the quality of professional journalism. Plenty of updates from concerned fans, but not one journalist has actually managed a story with Pini. I wonder how much would have been written about Pini had he and some pals been interested in the Sevco Works XI... sorry, Sports Direct Works XI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) You know Sevco actually make us look bloody marvelous, I mean we may be having a poor season, poor signings and a club for sale, but our BOD are flipping saviours compared to that laughable carry on. Can u imagine, St Mirren Park and Training ground be used as collateral for a loan that's about 15% of its net worth. This is after SG saying that will never happen. I think of that, them and then us and despite everything I have a small burst out of laughing and wonder if one way or another we will play the newbees next season Edited January 16, 2015 by DougJamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I wonder how much would have been written about Pini had he and some pals been interested in the Sevco Works XI... sorry, Sports Direct Works XI. You never know, someone who was actually getting paid to do it may have researched it properly. No wonder I don't usually read newspapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) You never know, someone who was actually getting paid to do it may have researched it properly. No wonder I don't usually read newspapers. Aye, like the way the press researched, and clearly identified Craig Whyte as a shyster who was already banned from becoming a company director? Nah, he was simply the Lanarkshire boy made good, with off-the-radar wealth! I wouldn't trust the press to find out their own middle names. Edited January 16, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds10 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Having read some of the articles regarding Pini & Girona, they sound quite plausible to me. (Despite Scott Burns opinion and them being dismissed on here.) Girona who have look to have a realistic chance of promotion to La Liga this season, would be a much better bet if you're looking to make money I'd imagine. Apparently they looked at Girona a while ago but were put by the fact they couldn't get complete control, but now have an agreement in place to get 51% of the shares. (There was some suggestion of them buying both Girona and Saints though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I just don't see how the SFA, SPFL would allow the club to shift players in short spaces of time without investigating us. Can you even confirm a signing without registration, work permits or international clearance? Chilean football appears to be somewhere that makes that mode of operation a lot easier. Maybe they will showcase players here, perhaps they are aware of what they can or can't do. Heck, we owed Barr money and "by coincidence" Jim Dick moved to Ayr Utd. HMRC are also a lot tighter on football now, they'd notice non-payment. Do we actually know Rangers moved players for tax avoidance whilst Universidad didn't? The interview I found asked Pini about a couple of players, not 10 or 20. Oh and if my head was in the sand, would I be doing so much research or asking so many questions. I agree that we would be likely to face investigation - particularly in light of the shambles down the road. However, I don't know if work permits would be an issue. I'd imagine we could sign a player subject to a work permit, and sell him on again before he sets foot in the country or attends his work permit hearing... Not to be too pedantic but there is a world of difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Strictly speaking only tax evasion is illegal whereas tax avoidance is generally taking advantage of "loopholes" to pay less tax. With reference to Greyskull in regards to EBT's, at the moment it is only being seen as avoidance and not evasion, no matter how unpallatable, thus why they won their case, that could change at appeal right enough. Not paying the PAYE/NIC due to lack of funds is what took Rangers out. I am not suggesting, at any point, that avoidance is OK and a route we should pursue!! If the HMRC starts investigating tax avoidance, I think St Mirren would find it very difficult to find the means to contest it all the way, as OldCo is still doing. I expect the club would also find it impossible to pay up. So if we get presented with a tax bill because HMRC decides that Pini's plan might not be legal, it's lights out. You are right that loopholes exist and are exploited - but governments and organisations like UEFA try to close loopholes all the time too. Even if Pini's plan is legal for now, that doesn't mean that it will always be legal. And as I've explained above, it may not matter if it's legal or not if HMRC decides to challenge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I agree that we would be likely to face investigation - particularly in light of the shambles down the road. However, I don't know if work permits would be an issue. I'd imagine we could sign a player subject to a work permit, and sell him on again before he sets foot in the country or attends his work permit hearing... If the HMRC starts investigating tax avoidance, I think St Mirren would find it very difficult to find the means to contest it all the way, as OldCo is still doing. I expect the club would also find it impossible to pay up. So if we get presented with a tax bill because HMRC decides that Pini's plan might not be legal, it's lights out. You are right that loopholes exist and are exploited - but governments and organisations like UEFA try to close loopholes all the time too. Even if Pini's plan is legal for now, that doesn't mean that it will always be legal. And as I've explained above, it may not matter if it's legal or not if HMRC decides to challenge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenburn ed Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) New conspiracy theory, just because I'm bored. Div made up the stories about the Argies, and the English consortium's to increase the traffic on his site thus making it more attractive to sponsors so he can buy the club. Also Brian McAusland is Div's mole, as he wants to jeopardise all deals, other than the Div one, to keep his place on the board meaning he can keep his son in the first team. He causes a massive distraction where all the fans want to lynch everybody and, get this, this is where he gave himself away, sneaks in the big front door.... Its been staring me in the face all along, can't believe it took me so long. The leak is NOT McAusland is it Div !!!! Edited January 16, 2015 by glenburn ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 This is all just total speculation that everyone and news papers are writing ! no one apart from new buyers know what they are planning to do , I think if the current board who have been extremely cautious up till now will surely have done tge appropriate checks and asked the appropriate questions , after all they are all life long StMirren supporters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The frenzy of speculation, claim, counter claim and basically just get the club in the media. Take fans minds of the fact we are currently pish and need signings. Again it's pure speculation, but maybe it was just to get things shifted up a gear if it seemed to be stalling. I don't think this being in the media is helping either the sellers or the buyers get this over the line to be honest with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Having read some of the articles regarding Pini & Girona, they sound quite plausible to me. (Despite Scott Burns opinion and them being dismissed on here.) Girona who have look to have a realistic chance of promotion to La Liga this season, would be a much better bet if you're looking to make money I'd imagine. Apparently they looked at Girona a while ago but were put by the fact they couldn't get complete control, but now have an agreement in place to get 51% of the shares. (There was some suggestion of them buying both Girona and Saints though) St.Girona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Just found another story claiming Pini and crew will be in Girona until the 29th. They won't proceed if the bankruptcy case on Feb 19th doesn't go well. Maybe Girona are the next option after us, again who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whydowebother Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Great thread ! Shifted pish this get (Speculation or rumours) Maybe a new sub-forum heading ? 'The imminent section' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't think this being in the media is helping either the sellers or the buyers get this over the line to be honest with you. That's if this was always the preferred bid. Maybe the reaction of the English mob wasn't what was expected, granted that again is pure speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't think this being in the media is helping either the sellers or the buyers get this over the line to be honest with you. Yup, just imagine the first press conference... "Yes, I'm from and I've some really poorly researched stuff I'd like to ask you about." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smfcbuddie Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 The point I made was the massive difference in numbers and paying customers between ourselves and hearts The point I answered was the plan only required 1/3rd of those who eventually signed up for Direct Debits. If what you are saying is only big clubs can do this, then what about Motherwell? It surely depends on how much you owe, the terms of the deal and the amount the fans or others pay in. The numbers of members is only one part of that equation. My recollection is that there was enough support to offer £1.5million. A genuine offer which met their amended price but they turned it down. Makes no sense at all, and as it is now developing, wholly counter productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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