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Fair enough, 10 miles - not 'about five' as I wrongly said. That five mile difference should be enough to insulate both clubs from losing fans to the ugly sisters, eh?

I'm not saying it is or isn't, but if you are going to proffer an opinion it's not unreasonable to expect any facts you quote at the start of that opinion to be more than 50% correct, it just lessens your argument, making it sound more like hyperbole then reason particularly as it makes the difference that they are both further removed from Celtic Park than we are from Ibrox.

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Fair enough, 10 miles - not 'about five' as I wrongly said. That five mile difference should be enough to insulate both clubs from losing fans to the ugly sisters, eh?

And we're about 10 miles from Darkheid as well. We're closer to Scumbox, but they don't matter as they've nae money and their fans are 'walking away'.

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I'm not saying it is or isn't, but if you are going to proffer an opinion it's not unreasonable to expect any facts you quote at the start of that opinion to be more than 50% correct, it just lessens your argument, making it sound more like hyperbole then reason particularly as it makes the difference that they are both further removed from Celtic Park than we are from Ibrox.

I wasn't having a dig - you were right to point out it is ten miles(ish), not about five as I wrongly stated. I am on an iPod mobile version otherwise would have inserted appropriate smilies.

My point is merely that we are not unique in being a small club in the shadow of the two Glasgow big clubs - made in response to a post from someone who seemed to be suggesting that we should somehow accept our lot as a wee club because of the OF proximity.

In attempting to make the point that others are in the same boat, I have clearly made a rip-roaring cnut of it, and am happy to admit to that.

I have been a bad boy, and as punishment, will now watch a re-run of the entire 2010 League Cup final.

(Visualise another smilie here. Thanks.)

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I wasn't having a dig - you were right to point out it is ten miles(ish), not about five as I wrongly stated. I am on an iPod mobile version otherwise would have inserted appropriate smilies.

My point is merely that we are not unique in being a small club in the shadow of the two Glasgow big clubs - made in response to a post from someone who seemed to be suggesting that we should somehow accept our lot as a wee club because of the OF proximity.

In attempting to make the point that others are in the same boat, I have clearly made a rip-roaring cnut of it, and am happy to admit to that.

I have been a bad boy, and as punishment, will now watch a re-run of the entire 2010 League Cup final.

(Visualise another smilie here. Thanks.)

It wasn't a bad enough post to warrant a punishment like that. 20 Lashes will be sufficient.

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I'm not saying it is or isn't, but if you are going to proffer an opinion it's not unreasonable to expect any facts you quote at the start of that opinion to be more than 50% correct, it just lessens your argument, making it sound more like hyperbole then reason particularly as it makes the difference that they are both further removed from Celtic Park than we are from Ibrox.

ETA: you've kissed and made up so I'll leave it there....

Edited by Drew
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I absolutely grapsed the essence of what he was getting at, and I assume you probably did also. I'd contend that splitting hairs doesn't enhance any argument you may or may not offer to the contrary.

It's all cool. It's a smilie issue Drew. A mere misunderstanding and a wee dash of mis-communication.

Forums, eh?

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Let's just see how we get on without Kenny before we go tonto. By all accounts there was nothing we could do about his contract situation and he could leave when he chose ( as part of his agreement to sign again last summer ) we have as - someone else stated - had his talent for an extra 6 months and got a fee for him, instead of watching him drift off for free, Kenny had the choice of going when he wanted to and i reckon our hands were tied as to the fee involved.

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Let's just see how we get on without Kenny before we go tonto. By all accounts there was nothing we could do about his contract situation and he could leave when he chose ( as part of his agreement to sign again last summer ) we have as - someone else stated - had his talent for an extra 6 months and got a fee for him, instead of watching him drift off for free, Kenny had the choice of going when he wanted to and i reckon our hands were tied as to the fee involved.

Would he have gone for fee though buddy? Didn't we knock back offers for him before (I may have imagined that though) as we were certain on a reasonable development fee?

Turning out to be an utter shambles of a season tbh, goodwill towards the current custodians draining fast.

I've been trying to weigh this one up since the news broke and it's really not sitting well with me. A mistake has been made somewhere. Either the release clause was set far too low. I'd reckon 4 or 500K would have been fair for both or there was no release clause and we let him go far too cheaply.

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Would he have gone for fee though buddy? Didn't we knock back offers for him before (I may have imagined that though) as we were certain on a reasonable development fee?

Turning out to be an utter shambles of a season tbh, goodwill towards the current custodians draining fast.

I've been trying to weigh this one up since the news broke and it's really not sitting well with me. A mistake has been made somewhere. Either the release clause was set far too low. I'd reckon 4 or 500K would have been fair for both or there was no release clause and we let him go far too cheaply.

http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=40518

This might go some way to explaining things.

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That's down to our potential fans.

But what are we offering to potential fans, in terms of entertainment and overall matchday experience? It's quite pricey, freezing cold for most of the season and entertainment on the park is inconsistent (to be charitable).

In fact, are we even making any efforts to communicate with potential fans? Hoping they'll just turn up hasn't worked up until now.

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pozbaird

Posted Yesterday, 16:20snapback.png

My point is merely that we are not unique in being a small club in the shadow of the two Glasgow big clubs - made in response to a post from someone who seemed to be suggesting that we should somehow accept our lot as a wee club because of the OF proximity.

I assume you refer to my post Poz, or maybe one that followed.

I actually wasn't inferring that we have to accept our lot, it is the way that things have happened over the years. I actually recall attending Love St when we regularly got crowds of 8 to 10,000 outwith OF games. However over a long period we have managed (and please note I use that word carefully) to screw it up internally.

Other than maybe the Ferguson era when he personally went round the Paisley housing areas and stirred up interest and cajoled the punters to come and see this wee exciting team perform, we have year on year let fans dwindle away.

The OF reference was one that has rankled with me for many years. These were people who wanted to go and watch football, but for whatever reason, be it attracted to a success related team, or some misguided religious reasoning, they left Paisley en mass (pun unintentional) every Saturday and meanwhile the local team had less and less finance coming through the door and we took on a small team boardroom mentality. That hasn't changed.

I am on record as saying that it is time for the BoD's to go, and the sooner the better. Whether we get anyone else in that will have any semblance of enthusiasm or drive is another matter, I'm getting to the stage of believing that almost anything else would be preferable!bangin.gif

One thing that is obvious, if we did get a team that performed better and challenged for the top 4 I bet we would see our crowds grow to around the 6,000 mark clap.gif

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My point is merely that we are not unique in being a small club in the shadow of the two Glasgow big clubs - made in response to a post from someone who seemed to be suggesting that we should somehow accept our lot as a wee club because of the OF proximity.

I assume you refer to my post Poz, or maybe one that followed.

I actually wasn't inferring that we have to accept our lot, it is the way that things have happened over the years. I actually recall attending Love St when we regularly got crowds of 8 to 10,000 outwith OF games. However over a long period we have managed (and please note I use that word carefully) to screw it up internally.

Other than maybe the Ferguson era when he personally went round the Paisley housing areas and stirred up interest and cajoled the punters to come and see this wee exciting team perform, we have year on year let fans dwindle away.

The OF reference was one that has rankled with me for many years. These were people who wanted to go and watch football, but for whatever reason, be it attracted to a success related team, or some misguided religious reasoning, they left Paisley en mass (pun unintentional) every Saturday and meanwhile the local team had less and less finance coming through the door and we took on a small team boardroom mentality. That hasn't changed.

I am on record as saying that it is time for the BoD's to go, and the sooner the better. Whether we get anyone else in that will have any semblance of enthusiasm or drive is another matter, I'm getting to the stage of believing that almost anything else would be preferable!bangin.gif

One thing that is obvious, if we did get a team that performed better and challenged for the top 4 I bet we would see our crowds grow to around the 6,000 mark clap.gif

Not convinced our attendances would get anywhere near 6,000 as Aberdeen, albeit only after 9 games this season, seen their attendance go down by almost 4%.

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Or alternatively, naebody wanted him?

That's the more likely scenario ! If , for example , Alex Neil knew he could get Kenny for £175k , why did he pay over a million for Andreu when they've both been playing an identical role lately ? The answer's probably that Andreu has more grit in his game and more consistency and has a better chance of success at a higher level !

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Not convinced our attendances would get anywhere near 6,000 as Aberdeen, albeit only after 9 games this season, seen their attendance go down by almost 4%.

I reckon they could mate - look at the below.

Ok, 2006/7 was a long time ago, and was the first season back after a few in the wilderness, but it shows what a bit of constant success in the league can get you. Obviously the reality of the SPL fairly bit the next season!

322527-st-mirren-average-attendance.jpg

Edit: note the figure for this season was correct as at the start of December - either way, Tommy Craig was delivering our lowest SPL attendances in recent memory.

Edited by Magic Monkey
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Suppose we could go on and on about this. Still think a mistake has been made. If he was so good when the contract was signed, why didn't he walk then.

The way im seeing it is that mclean clearly wanted a move away, though to stay in the uk. He was offered a new deal before the old one was done and never signed it, had a few suitors but none willing to pay the development fee. The BOD offered him another deal and an agreement that if the development fee was met hed be allowed to leave. The BOD seem to be taking pelters for this?

Start of the season this was the options. Kenny stays, signs a 2 year deal, if he does well he gets a move and we get a few hundred thousand (or the development fee money) or we offer him f**k all, he goes abroad so not to be frozen out of football n we get f**k all.

or have I got this completely wrong?

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The way im seeing it is that mclean clearly wanted a move away, though to stay in the uk. He was offered a new deal before the old one was done and never signed it, had a few suitors but none willing to pay the development fee. The BOD offered him another deal and an agreement that if the development fee was met hed be allowed to leave. The BOD seem to be taking pelters for this?

Start of the season this was the options. Kenny stays, signs a 2 year deal, if he does well he gets a move and we get a few hundred thousand (or the development fee money) or we offer him f**k all, he goes abroad so not to be frozen out of football n we get f**k all.

or have I got this completely wrong?

No this is spot on. Most fans know the BOD did nothing wrong here.

They could have let him walk away abroad for nothing in the summer, or they could have agreed to him signing on his terms. They chose the latter and I'm delighted they did. Imagine where we'd be if they'd chose the former?

Kenny was at a level above the rest of the team this season. I said he was clearly too good for us, and so did our manager. It's no surprise he's moved on. The timing isn't great obviously, but that's what these transfer windows do.

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Should we really? If you just based it on potential fan bases then surely the 4 Glasgow, 2 Edinburgh, 2 Dundee and 1 Aberdeen clubs should all be above us. We should be fighting it out with the likes of Motherwell and Kilmarnock and be in about 10th place - exactly where we are. The fact that it is different clubs above us is irrelevant, we are (based on potential fan base) exactly where we should be. In fact you could possibly include Clyde as well as they should have had bigger crowds due to potential fan base while still in Glasgow, so we are actually a place above where we should be.

Or maybe I am wrong and everyone should have roughly equal fan bases when it is all divided up - can't be arsed working it out. Maybe Aberdeen should be the biggest club based on potential fan base as they are stuck up there in a big city all by themselves.

Clyde?? Does that mean you put Queens Park and Pollok juniors in the same bracket because they play in a catchment area of 1 million people!

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Clyde?? Does that mean you put Queens Park and Pollok juniors in the same bracket because they play in a catchment area of 1 million people!

Clyde, Queens Park,Thistle and St Mirren could be a whole lot bigger if it wasn't for the tens of thousands sectarian f**kwit bigots polluting our space.
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