As A Fan Does Relegation Mean That Much ?

[Stuart Dickson]

God this thread is depressing but I suppose that's what 15 years plus of Gilmour killing the club softly does in the end.

Did anyone watch Match of the Day yesterday? On there was a feature of an Social Enterprise Initiative at Aston Villa. Local schoolkids presenting Social Enterprise business initiatives at Villa Park to local business people and to officials of the club. The winners were given £200 each to get their business off the ground and the judges were looking for businesses that would be viable and which would have an element within it to benefit their local community. It's a brilliant idea.

A couple of years ago I watched as Dave Whelan build a new community centre for what used to be called Wigan Boys Club. A traditional organisation that took young boys off the streets, gave them a sport like boxing, snooker or football or an interest in a hobby like learning to play musical instruments. Something to focus on and to keep them out of trouble. Whelan made it a kids club instead of a boys club - probably some sort of tick box thing to ensure they got more funding - and he ensured that the clubs future would be guaranteed for at least the next two generations.

To get those kind of initiatives off the ground and working you need to be high profile. It's not necessarily about investing large sums of money, but it's about being big enough to generate interest and coverage and having enough of a draw around you to attract the right kind of people in to make those initiatives financially viable. Perhaps had BinEK released his Tony Fitzpatrick interview much earlier the board might began to understood what it was about Alex Ferguson that made Paisley tick. Sadly instead of listening and learning the board of directors spent the last 15 years telling the local community to f**k off.

Relegation won't be a short term disaster for the club, or for the fans but it will affect the local community whether it's the man selling burgers to a dwindling number of away fans from his van opposite the main stand, or whether it's the local petrol station owner who had fewer away fans looking to fill up their petrol tanks for the road home. It will affect the funding and sponsorship that is available to the club. It will affect the potential to run community programmes and it will affect St Mirren's ability to attract young fans who will be the lifeblood of the club in years to come.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Stuart Dickson

[TopCat]

God this thread is depressing but I suppose that's what 15 years plus of Gilmour killing the club softly does in the end.

Did anyone watch Match of the Day yesterday? On there was a feature of an Social Enterprise Initiative at Aston Villa. Local schoolkids presenting Social Enterprise business initiatives at Villa Park to local business people and to officials of the club. The winners were given £200 each to get their business off the ground and the judges were looking for businesses that would be viable and which would have an element within it to benefit their local community. It's a brilliant idea.

A couple of years ago I watched as Dave Whelan build a new community centre for what used to be called Wigan Boys Club. A traditional organisation that took young boys off the streets, gave them a sport like boxing, snooker or football or an interest in a hobby like learning to play musical instruments. Something to focus on and to keep them out of trouble. Whelan made it a kids club instead of a boys club - probably some sort of tick box thing to ensure they got more funding - and he ensured that the clubs future would be guaranteed for at least the next two generations.

To get those kind of initiatives off the ground and working you need to be high profile. It's not necessarily about investing large sums of money, but it's about being big enough to generate interest and coverage and having enough of a draw around you to attract the right kind of people in to make those initiatives financially viable. Perhaps had BinEK released his Tony Fitzpatrick interview much earlier the board might began to understood what it was about Alex Ferguson that made Paisley tick. Sadly instead of listening and learning the board of directors spent the last 15 years telling the local community to f**k off.

Relegation won't be a disaster for the club, or for the fans. But it will affect the local community whether it's the man selling burgers to a dwindling number of away fans from his van opposite the main stand, or whether it's the local petrol station owner who had fewer away fans looking to fill up their petrol tanks for the road home. It will affect the funding and sponsorship that is available to the club. It will affect the potential to run community programmes. It will affect St Mirren's ability to attract young fans who will be the lifeblood of the club in years to come.

Interesting examples of both Wigan and Villa. I peruse both clubs fans forums from time to time.

I would say the criticism their fans have levelled at their owners this season makes here look like a teddy bears picnic.

[Bud the Baker]

The only place to be is the top flight, while promotion seasons are often the best ones outside Cup wins they are usually preceded (as a.a. says) by a number of brutal seasons struggling against P/T teams. Automatic promotion would be unlikely next season if we did go down but the season would probably be interesting most of the way with 4^th entering the promotion play-offs and 9^th the relegation ones - all in all tho' I'd rather not find out!

[Stuart Dickson]

Interesting examples of both Wigan and Villa. I peruse both clubs fans forums from time to time.

I would say the criticism their fans have levelled at their owners this season makes here look like a teddy bears picnic.

True but perhaps the reason for that is that they still have fans who give a f**k. 35,000 at Villa, 15,000 at Wigan and very few of them posting on the internet that relegation might not be such a bad thing....

[nickysmfc]

We will lose 10 players or so in summer meatball deco.be away personally going down.would gibe us chsnce to.regroup and rebuild need to.build a squad not dismantle it every summer relegation was avoidable ehich makes it hard to.take board 100 % to blame craig shoukdve went in sept not ded

[linwood buddie]

We have been toying with it for years ,this season we have been really poor and if County or Well had been any better we would have been cut well adrift, as it stands we still have a chance to stay up.

[TsuMirren]

We have been toying with it for years ,this season we have been really poor and if County or Well had been any better we would have been cut well adrift, as it stands we still have a chance to stay up.

It's actually mind boggling that we're not adrift already. Killie knew holding us high would work, if we got in behind they just grouped on Gow. Every team will see we have no pace up front, even if we pick Arquin he'll be offside or too lazy to get in front his man. It doesn't look good, but it's still there If the players just want it. 2 wins vs Ross Co and two vs Well could do it. Genen looks solid, McGinn more comfortable in the middle and Gow could get goals, or pass if he looks up.

[BIG BEN]

Ask a dunfermline fan if they are enjoying the lower leagues. Or even a morton fan. We dont want to go there

[pozbaird]

I'm sick of watching us struggling against the ICTs and St Johnston's if we can't compete with those size of clubs then we need to drop down and rebuild.

I'm scunnerered that we can't compete over a season with the likes of ICT and the fakes either. Christ, Kilmarnock own us this season, never mind those two. If we cannot match the likes of ICT and we are ourselves a long-term top flight club with a recent major trophy win, then how on earth will dropping down and 'rebuilding' do our club any good? How has that worked out for Falkirk?

The whole point of being in the Championship is to try and win it and become a Premiership club. We already ARE a Premiership club. Let's not spunk that away. Any rebuilding that needs done could best be done from within the top flight. Why wish to go down simply to hope we get back to where we already are!? If we do go down, far from enjoying winning football and rampaging back to the top flight, my view is we would struggle to finish fifth. As I have said many times, the dynamic has shifted. Hearts, Hibs and the Rangers all in the second tier with only two coming up?

If ever there was a season NOT to go down, this is it. If our BoD and manager / squad fcuk this up, they could set us back ten years easy.

Edited March 15, 2015 by pozbaird

[Griff]

Relegation and Championship football isn,t the disappointing thing from a fans point of view , its rthe 30 odd defeats and disappointing performances that get you there that are unbearable .

[oaksoft]

I won't find watching us get pumped by Hibs/Rangers/Falkirk/Queens entertaining at all. With the likely outcome being a St Mirren team full of kids and the odd journeyman pro hanging around, overseen by goodness knows who in the manager's suit, and who-gives-a-fcuk still in the boardroom.

Hurrumph. Cue Oaksoft, 'get a life' yadda, yadda, yadda.

Get a life.

Wouldn't want to disappoint...

[FS]

The Championship is ok if you're winning games and challenging near the top.

However there is no guarantee that we'd be doing that and the seasons when we struggled at that level in the late 90's (and even a couple in the early noughties) were the most depressing ever in my view.

From a financial perspective it would be damaging for the club and we could remain in the lower league(s) for some considerable time.

I'll take staying up thank you very much.

So to sum up... We're no good enough for the championship so we'd be better off in the SPFL ?

[saint in exile]

I enjoyed my days out at Montrose, Ayr, Airdrie, Stirling, Raith, etc, etc, etc. Do I want to see us going there next season? No thanks, I'd rather we stayed up. However, I think we may well be on the road to those places come August.

[Seaside Nipper]

Well, as a fan it is a desperate thought to see the club get relegated. Moreso this season as imo it is a pile of self inlicted relegation poop we are in. I'm all a bit meh about it if truth be told. Could I genuinely give a phuck , I used to , but less so these days

The club is about to enter a significant era of transformation, it needs gutted, the hangover has lasted since day 1 this season and shows no signs of clearing. Relegation could have profound consequences for St Mirren.

If anything, I am annoyed tbh, this isn't about a result here or there or a dodgy ref decision, a couple of bad games, a conspiratorial injustice even, nope, this is all about the club realising the reward for the shocking malaise that it has been mired in for an unacceptably long period.

On that basis, I am basically, simply underwhelmed, it just means that for St Mirren fans we enter a more diddy level of football, in a set up that frankly is dying on its arse in any case.

Sparce crowds, scattered amongst blocks and blocks of empty seats in ghostly stands, artificial pitches, ( in a professional era, really ) a complete entertainment turn off, Sportscene (ffs) the continued reverence of likely future meetings between the Glasgow bigots, no ta, I'm fair skunnert with it all tbh, the Scottish game, well its tired, mediocre shit at best

My son wants to go see more EPL games, who can blame him, I think I would do as well........................

[TopCat]

I enjoyed my days out at Montrose, Ayr, Airdrie, Stirling, Raith, etc, etc, etc. However, I think we may well be on the road to those places come August.

You do know that only one of the five teams you mentioned will actually be playing in the second tier next season?

[Edinbuddie]

Despite knowing that it'll never happen for a club like St Mirren, what football fan doesn't want their team to win every week? I've seen us relegated twice, and we're not the kind of club that gets relegated and bounces straight back.

The past couple of seasons have been bad enough, but the thought of being in the Petrofac Training Cup, playing Dumbarton, Alloa, Cowdenbeath and shite like Morton in the league, without the likelihood of winning, is a difficult one to get excited about.

We all strive to be in the top league, and it's never anything other than shite not to be in it, despite all its faults.

[saint in exile]

You do know that only one of the five teams you mentioned will actually be playing in the second tier next season?

Stop being a pedantic sod. You know exactly what I mean.

[The Original 59er]

I agree that we can pull ourselves out of the mire, BUT and it is a big but, we need to do it by ourselves and not be depending on others to do the work for us.

It has been pointed out that we have finished 2nd bottom at least 4 times,................. I agree the odds are that if we had been faced with a play off in each of these 4 occasions with the 2nd top team from the league below, we would have been relegated at least once.

It's never been an easy ride being a Saint's supporter, many lows, many drifting seasons and a very few occasional highs.

I do place a lot of the blame on the BoD's. I have been a supporter for many seasons of SG's stance at Saints. He is a supporter of the team. He oversaw a period of possible financial Armageddon and pulled a fast one out of the hat with the Tesco deal, but that goodwill is drying up fast and the tight financial apron strings mean that we won't borrow or get into debt to increase the playing staff.

I now accept that we are likely to go down. Even if we pull off the trick of finishing 2nd bottom, facing Hibs or our bigoted Govan neighbours doesn't fill me with a lot of optimism. As for history, yes we can win some games when down a division and yes we can build a team that is attractive to watch and maybe bounce back up, but that historically is the way we are and nothing in this world will change that.

We delude ourselves that we can challenge regularly in the top 6. We don't and haven't for as long as I've supported the team.......................... and that's a long time!

Why do ICT or St Johnstone manage it? Well maybe because they have had a better Board, or a better understanding of what it takes to work on a shoestring and make that shoestring go as far as it can. Certainly our Board have burnt money with useless players, bad decisions on Managers (who then get a settlement) and made little or no attempt to engender enthusiasm with the Paisley public. So on the one hand I congratulate them, but on the other I harbor a grudge because they show little talent to take the club on. In other words they were bloody lucky with the Tesco deal and beyond that, whilst they have overseen a new ground and a training facility, what else have they done? The Tesco deal wasn't rocket science and the ground is ok, but not brilliant.

When you go for an interview for a job, what is one of the qualities that the owner wants to see in the applicant............. ambition! That's what our Board lack and if they ever went for an interview, I bet they wouldn't get the job.

So would we be better off being relegated..................... no! I'd rather scrap at the bottom of the Premier League than be a possible also-ran in the Championship.

Do I want change.................. Yes and the sooner the better!

[TopCat]

Stop being a pedantic sod. You know exactly what I mean.

Just didn't want you to get disappointed when you don't get your wee trip to Montrose or Airdrie

[Howard Hughes in BlueSuedeShoes]

The Championship is ok if you're winning games and challenging near the top.

However there is no guarantee that we'd be doing that and the seasons when we struggled at that level in the late 90's (and even a couple in the early noughties) were the most depressing ever in my view.

From a financial perspective it would be damaging for the club and we could remain in the lower league(s) for some considerable time.

I'll take staying up thank you very much.

Spot on.

[Bart Simpson]

On a slightly different note, there was a piece on Radio Scotland at lunchtime today about the importance of elite sport to the nation as a whole. Whilst I didn't hear all of it there was a few interesting comments about bringing people together in a group standing together. There was specific mention of Scotland at Hampden, but it got me thinking albeit briefly about how much Saints mean to me. Like others I dip in and out of games with work commitments but see Saints as part of my identity.

It's rubbish to struggle as we have done this season but it is definitely not time to throw in the towel. The results this season do not hide the fact that we have been the weakest team thus far, but we have to remain behind our team no matter what.

It is easy to point fingers at others, but changes have been made and survival is still in our own hands. All I want is for the team as a whole to give 100% effort and if we go down fighting I'll be disappointed but I'll be pretty scunnered if grafting together is lacking.

[the barrhead teacher]

We have struggled in the SPL every season, but at least in almost all other previous ones we had a number of excellent performances and results to savour. 4-1 against Dundee Utd, being a good example. This season has been bereft of that largely. Too many hard luck, bad refereeing decisions, particularly at home. After Lennon took over we played a lot of entertaining football. Last couple of seasons of McPherson were not!!!

I want us to succeed, but I also want entertained for my money. Relegation scraps do give meaning to each match year in year out, but I am not sure I could put up with many seasons like this one. If we get relegated, so be it, but my worry would be how competitive we would be in the Championship without some major surgery. I can accept a couple of seasons down below if we are competing for play offs. The danger is oblivion. Staying up must be the preference, but we must also look root and branch at what we are doing. Hamilton, ICT, fakes and Jags should not be outcompeting us for players, style, goals etc.

[Lord Pityme]

In response to the OP's post: Yes!

As McGinn mentioned in his piece in the Herald today, a lot of non playing staff will lose their jobs if we are relegated and that will make the job of coming back up ten times as hard with no scouting or credible youth development function.

[Gordon Urquhart]

It does mean something. Pride.

[bingboy]

So to sum up... We're no good enough for the championship so we'd be better off in the SPFL ?

No to sum up.....the future of the club could be seriously affected by relegation and we will have a stronger financial base to rebuild from if we stay up.

The strength of this seasons squad is irrelevant to how we would perform in the Championship next season because there would surely be massive changes to it, almost certainly for the worse.