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Un-Capped Saints Players


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In the post about Bobby McKean, after reference was made to the 3-3 draw with Rangers at Love Street, I was reminded of how players like Jacky Copland never got a proper look-in at international level because of old-firm bias in the SFA.

Other players that come to mind are Jim Clunie, Tommy Bryceland, Tommy Gemmell, Cammy Murray and Tony Fitzpatrick.

What 6 Saints players do you feel missed out on international caps to lesser beings from the old firm?

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Jackie Copland is the obvious one , Jim McLean on record as saying that he was his best player at United , a better sweeper than Dave Narey , and then the interview with Willie Miller about Fergie's arrival at Aberdeen , when Fergie told Miller that he had a lot to learn about playing the sweepers role that he could learn from big Jack !

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In my time supporting Saints apart from a coupla seasons back in the late 70's maybe stretching till about 81/82 we've been an unfashionable club - Steve Clarke, Frank McAvennie & Ian Ferguson were all capped shortly after leaving us as if they needed the vindication of a big money transfer to acknowledge their ability & form. cool.png

Edit

Q. Does it matter?

A. It might seem academic since we've not had a player knocking at the Scotland team's door for a generation but yeah I think it does 'cos it affects how the club is viewed and more importantly the price we command for the players we sell............

Edited by Bud the Baker
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I remember Scotland having 1 place in midfield available and it being between Tony Fitzpatrick, Tommy Burns and Greame Souness to fill it. I was really angry that it went to Souness because I'd never heard of him (I think he played for Middlesburgh in the old 2nd division so no games on the telly) Of course even though I've heard of him now, Fitzy was still better thumbup2.gif

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Billy Stark probably tops the list for me...

What you need to remember though is that Scotland had many quality players back in the day.

I was reading the other day about the Aston Villa side that won the European Cup. They had 3 Scots in the side, central defenders Ken McNaught & Allan Evans plus midfielder Des Bremner.

McNaught never won a single cap, while Bremner won 1 at Hibs before he joined Villa. Evans won 8.

These guys were regulars, week in and week out, won the English league and were champions of Europe...

Yet the likes of Ally Dawson, Colin Jackson, etc were getting games for Scotland!

I always remember Steve Clarke. After he left Love Street he spent more than 10 years as Chelsea's regular right back. Yet he only won 5 caps. Tom Boyd however lasted just 6 months at Chelsea before they got shot of him as a makeweight to sign Tony Cascarino FFS! And Boyd won over 70 caps! FFS, Stewart McKimmie won a barrowload of caps in the same era!

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Billy Stark probably tops the list for me...

What you need to remember though is that Scotland had many quality players back in the day.

I was reading the other day about the Aston Villa side that won the European Cup. They had 3 Scots in the side, central defenders Ken McNaught & Allan Evans plus midfielder Des Bremner.

McNaught never won a single cap, while Bremner won 1 at Hibs before he joined Villa. Evans won 8.

These guys were regulars, week in and week out, won the English league and were champions of Europe...

Yet the likes of Ally Dawson, Colin Jackson, etc were getting games for Scotland!

I always remember Steve Clarke. After he left Love Street he spent more than 10 years as Chelsea's regular right back. Yet he only won 5 caps. Tom Boyd however lasted just 6 months at Chelsea before they got shot of him as a makeweight to sign Tony Cascarino FFS! And Boyd won over 70 caps! FFS, Stewart McKimmie won a barrowload of caps in the same era!

It's always been the way. How many Scotland squads was Campbell Money in, yet he never got on the park once?

It's still going on, John Fleck was in a Scotland squad after 2 or 3 games a few years ago, and that Calum MacGregor from Sellic was in a squad earlier this season after a couple of decent games in Europe.

It's a lot of pish, always has been, always will be.

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It's always been the way. How many Scotland squads was Campbell Money in, yet he never got on the park once?

It's still going on, John Fleck was in a Scotland squad after 2 or 3 games a few years ago, and that Calum MacGregor from Sellic was in a squad earlier this season after a couple of decent games in Europe.

It's a lot of pish, always has been, always will be.

Money was very unlucky to be backup when we had good keepers like Leighton and Goram.

Unfortunately for Dibble, when he retired there was pish like Nicky Walker getting caps.

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I'll give you Billy Stark and Stevie Clarke. In my opinion Billy Stark is the best uncapped Scottish player in my lifetime. But the rest?

Denis Connaghan: Great club player but not consistent enough for international honours. Better keepers around at the time.

Jackie Copland: Fabulous player but lacked a yard of pace. If he had that yard he wouldn't have been playing for us.

Gordon McQueen: Only 20 when he left Saints.

Tommy Bryceland: clever, but not physical enough. Spent entire career in lower divisions.

Jim Clunie: big and strong but no pace.

Archie Gemmel: Only 20 when he left Saints.

Willie Renton: Seriously! After us he had a short spell with Dunfermline and then non-league.

Jim Blair: Come on. Apart from being only 22 when he left Saints you think he was better than Denis Law and Alan Gilzean?

Campbell Money: Great club man, deserved to play at a higher level but not perhaps international level.

Cammy Murray: One of my all time favourite players but no, sorry.

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Thought I,d try and put a team together , of players who should have been capped for Scotland whilst playing for Saints

Money

Tommy Wilson ( before leg break ) , Bobby Reid , Jackie Copland , Stevie Clarke

Norrie McWhirter , Paul Lambert , Ian Ferguson , Kenny McLean

Frank McAvennie , Frank McGarvey

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Gordon McQueen: Only 20 when he left Saints.

Archie Gemmel: Only 20 when he left Saints.

Why is "only 20" a reason why they couldn't play a representative game for their country. There are many in other countries who do get a game at 20 and maybe that's half of Scotland's problem they don't bring the players into the fold young enough, or they only do if they played for the old Firm.

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Why is "only 20" a reason why they couldn't play a representative game for their country. There are many in other countries who do get a game at 20 and maybe that's half of Scotland's problem they don't bring the players into the fold young enough, or they only do if they played for the old Firm.

In those days they only named a squad of around 13/14 players and the only young players who got capped in their early years were called Pele . They were also part time like most young players as they were also serving apprenceships and they played most of their games for Saints in the old second division.

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I'll give you Billy Stark and Stevie Clarke. In my opinion Billy Stark is the best uncapped Scottish player in my lifetime. But the rest?

Denis Connaghan: Great club player but not consistent enough for international honours. Better keepers around at the time.

Jackie Copland: Fabulous player but lacked a yard of pace. If he had that yard he wouldn't have been playing for us.

Gordon McQueen: Only 20 when he left Saints.

Tommy Bryceland: clever, but not physical enough. Spent entire career in lower divisions.

Jim Clunie: big and strong but no pace.

Archie Gemmel: Only 20 when he left Saints.

Willie Renton: Seriously! After us he had a short spell with Dunfermline and then non-league.

Jim Blair: Come on. Apart from being only 22 when he left Saints you think he was better than Denis Law and Alan Gilzean?

Campbell Money: Great club man, deserved to play at a higher level but not perhaps international level.

Cammy Murray: One of my all time favourite players but no, sorry.

All very true.

Even Frank McAvennie... Scotland had a barrowload of great strikers back then. I think McAvennie scored 16 goals for us in his last season at Love Street. Hardly prolific. West Ham United took a punt on him and he got lucky in that Paul Goddard got injured in the first game of the season and that let Maca in. He ended up scoring 20+ and was second top English scorer behind Lineker. He proved himself at the highest level and got called up.

Even Billy Stark, it should be remembered that Aberdeen signed him as Gordon Strachan's understudy. He spent a season at Aberdeen and only became a regular after Strachan left for Old Trafford.

What is shocking however is that Gordon Strachan found him on the bench for Scotland behind the likes of Paul McStay & Jim Bett FFS!

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All very true.

Even Frank McAvennie... Scotland had a barrowload of great strikers back then. I think McAvennie scored 16 goals for us in his last season at Love Street. Hardly prolific. West Ham United took a punt on him and he got lucky in that Paul Goddard got injured in the first game of the season and that let Maca in. He ended up scoring 20+ and was second top English scorer behind Lineker. He proved himself at the highest level and got called up.

Even Billy Stark, it should be remembered that Aberdeen signed him as Gordon Strachan's understudy. He spent a season at Aberdeen and only became a regular after Strachan left for Old Trafford.

What is shocking however is that Gordon Strachan found him on the bench for Scotland behind the likes of Paul McStay & Jim Bett FFS!

West Ham played him in midfield like we did when he first broke through

16 league goals for us and i'm sure he missed a few games that season

Worked out 1 goal from 2 games good going for a team like us as well many assists for Brian Gallagher lol

If Macca had been wearing a hooped jersey that season he would have been straight in no questions asked

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In the post about Bobby McKean, after reference was made to the 3-3 draw with Rangers at Love Street, I was reminded of how players like Jacky Copland never got a proper look-in at international level because of old-firm bias in the SFA.

Other players that come to mind are Jim Clunie, Tommy Bryceland, Tommy Gemmell, Cammy Murray and Tony Fitzpatrick.

What 6 Saints players do you feel missed out on international caps to lesser beings from the old firm?

Tommy Gemmell got 1 cap

My faither said he was brilliant but too shy to show it

Likened him to Paul McStay

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Thought I,d try and put a team together , of players who should have been capped for Scotland whilst playing for Saints

Money

Tommy Wilson ( before leg break ) , Bobby Reid , Jackie Copland , Stevie Clarke

Norrie McWhirter , Paul Lambert , Ian Ferguson , Kenny McLean

Frank McAvennie , Frank McGarvey

Wilson and Reid would have made the squad for injury

Wilson according to press at the time was getting named in the next squad then Dawson done him the following Saturday

He came back but a yard slower than he had been

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