Looking On The Bright Side

[magnus]

Anyone who thinks getting relegated won't be that bad is very mistaken.

If you think the penny pinching and lack of interest in the successful running of the club has been bad this season, just wait til you see what happens if we go down.

If you think a relegation 'battle' from the Premier has been depressing, just wait til you are experiencing one from the Championship.

GT should post this on the dressing room wall. It would scare the shit put of me if my job depended on it.

[Bud Bundy]

GT should post this on the dressing room wall. It would scare the shit put of me if my job depended on it.

St Paddy's Day 2013 We Saw the whole of the Moon, Now we are going Doon ? Cant get any worse than, The then R@nkers Beating us with 9 Men in 2010 ? SMTD

[charlie]

I think we remember the old first division through rose tinted glasses. Yes we remember Hendries Team, But John Coughlan is quickly wiped from the memory. The Championship will be hard - and we will be there for a long time.

Currently we have -ve ambition or desire to stay up. The Board has made a right royal mess this season and created a case study in how to not run a business. Buy cheap and you buy twice. At this rate we could be the next Clyde.

Cheers Gilmour - I hope you feel good now. As posted earlier. At least Campbell Kennedy can organise a "Farewell Dinner".

A bit more thought and planning and we wouldn't be here.

Totally scunnered

[magnus]

Where would you suggest that this "genuine investment" would come from? Should the board borrow the money? Who would we borrow it from? Easy credit is a thing of the past for us, and thank f**k for that too, the last thing we need is to get into debt we can't afford to pay back - again.

Or maybe the board should put the money in? Why should they, that's not what they are there for? They are there to make sure that this great club of ours is still there for future generations of Saints fans to support, not to gamble the future of the club on the dream of competing with clubs who can outspend us (for various reasons). If other clubs want to spend money they can't afford to then good f**king luck to them, it will come back to bite some of them very hard on the arse. Personally, I don't want us to be one of them, do you? The board run small businesses, they are not multimillionaires. They probably don't have the money needed and can't just go throwing money at the club like the Roy McGreggor's (sp?) of this world.

Yes, this season has been shit in almost all departments. Yes, mistakes have been made. Are we going to be relegated? Quite possibly, in fact it's odds on that we will. Will I give up hope that we can stay up when it is still in our hands or stop going to support MY team (whatever league they play in) - will I f**k. I would rather go and watch a struggling Saints in the second (or even third) tier than sit at home with no club to go and support just because someone bet the future of MY team on black and it came up red.

Rant over - for the time being.

The obvious ones for me would have been to pay the going rate for guys like Craig Sammon, Nigel Hasselbaink etc. bring in a Centre Hall to give us cover, keep the sports psychologist and health coaches, hire a good manager after a proper interview process - I don't think this would have been more expensive than the cheap options.

[magnus]

The obvious ones for me would have been to pay the going rate for guys like Craig Sammon, Nigel Hasselbaink etc. bring in a Centre Hall to give us cover, keep the sports psychologist and health coaches, hire a good manager after a proper interview process - I don't think this would have been more expensive than the cheap options.

meant to add - develop a proper scout network to identify raw talent and a professional marketing team.

[Drew]

What would be fun would be achieving what St Johnstone have achieved. Taking the piss out of shite like us on the way to their 4th successive top 6 finish, a national trophy and European football along the way.

Now that would be fun.

Aye, pretty much this.

Someone (who actually gives a f**k) could perhaps analyse what St Johnstone - and possibly ICT - have done that we haven't in order to achieve their relative success. Said person/people could then adopt a few of these ideas and strategies in order to try and emulate this as SMFC.

I appreciate that the fermers have a bit of financial backing, but it isn't entirely down to that, as Brown is generally quite parsimonious in his approach. Likewise at Caley, who have also punched well above their weight for a couple of seasons now. Motherwell also had a couple of stellar seasons. What did they do right.

St Mirren FC has been characterised by apathy, complacency and a distinct lack of ambition for far too long. The only way that taking the drop will be remotely palatable is if there is a new broom, and new ideas.

As things stand, the current set-up in the 2nd tier will feel like nothing but desolation.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Drew

[saintnextlifetime]

Aye, pretty much this.

Someone (who actually gives a f**k) could perhaps analyse what St Johnstone - and possibly ICT - have done that we haven't in order to achieve their relative success. Said person/people could then adopt a few of these ideas and strategies in order to try and emulate this as SMFC.

I appreciate that the fermers have a bit of financial backing, but it isn't entirely down to that, as Brown is generally quite parsimonious in his approach. Likewise at Caley, who have also punched well above their weight for a couple of seasons now. Motherwell also had a couple of stellar seasons. What did they do right.

St Mirren FC has been characterised by apathy, complacency and a distinct lack of ambition for far too long. The only way that taking the drop will be remotely palatable is if there is a new broom, and new ideas.

As things stand, the current set-up in the 2nd tier will feel like nothing but desolation.

It would appear to be the whole ethos at the Club. The teams you mention seem to be able to sign players who might not be anything great but they seem to work hard (and are usually Hammer throwers) . We on the other hand seem to garner players who have some sort of attitude problem with the Club/Manager and some of the support and are deemed to lazy/no interested. .

Often times it appears that our players get kicked all over the park but if we kick anyone. .

Maybe we need to sign some Hammer throwers. .

[Louise79]

As a matter of interest apart from the players who else do you think would lose their jobs?!

[Oldfellow]

This would be the fifth relegation I've experienced in 50 plus years supporting St Mirren home and away .

Apart from the seasons we got promoted the rest of the time spent in lower leagues was depressing . There is nothing romantic about the places we will visit and often be beaten at .

Dont really get the big deal about the Morton games.We spent so much time in a different league from Morton that our local derby was Kilmarnock . Why would we want to play at Cappielow - Partick is a much more enjoyable derby.

Younger fans may enjoy going to new places but will get fed up soon . The publicity we get will drop dramatically .

These are not good times .

Please everyone, players and fans , get our mind in gear and stop this happening. It looks too late but it isnt.

[whydowebother]

Now , the possibilities with this are endless

I'm not sure if you're happy it's almost Easter ?

That's a reference to Paisley Cross

Or basically you think we the fans have been crucified this season watch Saints play

There are other options ...

[magnus]

Your very last bit is the problem with people who want "investment" in the club. You have no idea how much that costs and whether we could afford it. Neither do I, but I would think that if we could afford it then it would have been done as there would be no reason not to. And a proper scouting system would be something that we definitely couldn't afford.

i would argue that a proper scouting system is something we cant afford not to have. You are correct I don t know the costs but I know that the cost of going down for possibly years outweighs running the club like a top flight business. I would ban the club from banging on about tight we are and start talking up our win bonuses and how ambitious we are - that way we just might attract 3 or 4 half decent players.

[Edinbuddie]

I think we remember the old first division through rose tinted glasses. Yes we remember Hendries Team, But John Coughlan is quickly wiped from the memory. The Championship will be hard - and we will be there for a long time.

Currently we have -ve ambition or desire to stay up. The Board has made a right royal mess this season and created a case study in how to not run a business. Buy cheap and you buy twice. At this rate we could be the next Clyde.

Cheers Gilmour - I hope you feel good now. As posted earlier. At least Campbell Kennedy can organise a "Farewell Dinner".

A bit more thought and planning and we wouldn't be here.

Totally scunnered

I agree with that. 7-0 defeat by Raith, 4-1 at home by Clyde, 4-0 at Alloa.

We're likely to go from treading water in the Premiership to treading water in the Championship - for a few years anyway.

The likely reliance on youth if/when we get relegated takes me back to the 90s and a succession of young lads coming into the team, being hailed as great prospects, playing 4 or 5 games and then disappearing because they simply weren't good enough. Mixed with a succession of journeyman pros that we all look and back laugh at.

[oaksoft]

i would argue that a proper scouting system is something we cant afford not to have. You are correct I don t know the costs but I know that the cost of going down for possibly years outweighs running the club like a top flight business. I would ban the club from banging on about tight we are and start talking up our win bonuses and how ambitious we are - that way we just might attract 3 or 4 half decent players.

You might be right but it still costs money.

Funding a proper scouting network would require cuts elsewhere.

There's a general lack of understanding of finance amongst our fans

Unless you borrow money, which we all agree we shouldn't do (I hope) there is a fixed pot of money from which everything has to be paid.

What has happened this season is attendances have gone through the floor because fans have deserted the team.

As a result we're seeing necessary cost cutting to cope with that financial hit.

I'd have thought all of this was very obvious and very straightforwards.

Check out the next set of financial results. I'd be prepared to bet we've still run a loss despite all the cuts.

[davidg]

Check out the next set of financial results. I'd be prepared to bet we've still run a loss despite all the cuts.

We don't have the cash in the bank to run at a loss, the loss on paper will be down to depreciation.

[Stuart Dickson]

There are very few clubs who can afford a "proper" scouting system. You have to pay for a few people to travel all over the place paying into games (they might get into a few free, depending on where they went), with accommodation if necessary and all the other expenses this would incur (on top of a salary) with absolutely no guarantee of finding even one player that you could entice to the club. It's pie in the sky thinking and would cost into six figures, which we simply can't afford - it would be nice if we could. If that's not what you are talking about then you aren't talking about a "proper" scouting system. The best we can hope for is to have an ex-player or friend of the manager give us a call about someone they think would come to us and do a job. We could possibly foster relations better with the likes of clubs down south who we could then get loan players from (or their cast offs) but we've had hits and misses in that department too.

Let me guess, you think Football Manager is real don't you?

The reality of a scouting network in Scotland is it's nowhere near as expensive as you think. I've been approached by a number of clubs in the past, all asking me to scout for them. Falkirk offered me free admission to the Falkirk Stadium when I go there, and they offered a payment if any player I referred broke into the first team, and a subsequent percentage of any transfer fee if Falkirk got one. I was also approached informally by Spurs after attending a course run by the SFA in North Lanarkshire where the Spurs Chief Scout - can't remember his name - was teaching a group of us how to complete a good scouting report and where we were assessed having watched a boys club football match at Ravenscraig. His offer was that I'd get costs covered - so I'd be able to claim petrol expenses and cover the cost of accommodation or meals if the trip they requested called for it. I couldn't commit to the hours they were looking for so I rejected it. I've no idea if others took him up on it but even at that level it was pay as you go.

Often though clubs can get intel from their supporters or direct from source simply by asking a question. Another example would be that one of the people who runs the St Mirren Official Website contacted me by e-mail at the time when St Mirren were interested in signing Marc Corcoran. I had fallen out with St Mirren and had been going to watch Hamilton Accies promotion charge from the 2nd Division under Allan Maitland. Now I've no idea who the information was for but I was asked my opinion of Corcoran - I raved about him but I did warn that he wouldn't fit the St Mirren system as I felt he needed to play on the left side of a front three - and I was also asked to find out what kind of salary Corcoran was on. I've no idea if the information I gave helped but a few weeks later Corcoran signed for St Mirren.

I've also been asked the simple question "do you know of any other players as good as this one" by various clubs Heads of Youth Development as they've taken our players on trial, and asking me to contact them if I come across anyone I think should be pro youth. I've got the phone numbers of people at Morton, Clyde, Hamilton Accies, Motherwell, Dunfermline and Alloa on my contacts list.

Outside of that I know one of the Queens Park scouts who goes around watching youth football matches in return for free admission to Hampden, and a free bovril when he goes - and at Motherwell they've got a policeman who tours the local pitches and he tells me he does it in return for a season ticket for Fir Park each year.

Scouting is all about getting intel. That's all it is. It doesn't have to be expensive and you don't have to run an army of full time scouts. I've kept banging on about the importance of having a good working relationship with community football clubs across the country as their coaches will have SFA Coaching Badges and they will have experience of watching a large number of youth players in each age group and they will know what ones they think are potential stars for the future. Sadly St Mirren don't appear to have done any of that - at least not outside of the P&D leagues.

[Edinbuddie]

Does anyone remember that programme "Fantasy Island"? I don't know why it came to mind.

[windae cleaner]

Let me guess, you think Football Manager is real don't you?

The reality of a scouting network in Scotland is it's nowhere near as expensive as you think. I've been approached by a number of clubs in the past, all asking me to scout for them. Falkirk offered me free admission to the Falkirk Stadium when I go there, and they offered a payment if any player I referred broke into the first team, and a subsequent percentage of any transfer fee if Falkirk got one. I was also approached informally by Spurs after attending a course run by the SFA in North Lanarkshire where the Spurs Chief Scout - can't remember his name - was teaching a group of us how to complete a good scouting report and where we were assessed having watched a boys club football match at Ravenscraig. His offer was that I'd get costs covered - so I'd be able to claim petrol expenses and cover the cost of accommodation or meals if the trip they requested called for it. I couldn't commit to the hours they were looking for so I rejected it. I've no idea if others took him up on it but even at that level it was pay as you go.

Often though clubs can get intel from their supporters or direct from source simply by asking a question. Another example would be that one of the people who runs the St Mirren Official Website contacted me by e-mail at the time when St Mirren were interested in signing Marc Corcoran. I had fallen out with St Mirren and had been going to watch Hamilton Accies promotion charge from the 2nd Division under Allan Maitland. Now I've no idea who the information was for but I was asked my opinion of Corcoran - I raved about him but I did warn that he wouldn't fit the St Mirren system as I felt he needed to play on the left side of a front three - and I was also asked to find out what kind of salary Corcoran was on. I've no idea if the information I gave helped but a few weeks later Corcoran signed for St Mirren.

I've also been asked the simple question "do you know of any other players as good as this one" by various clubs Heads of Youth Development as they've taken our players on trial, and asking me to contact them if I come across anyone I think should be pro youth. I've got the phone numbers of people at Morton, Clyde, Hamilton Accies, Motherwell, Dunfermline and Alloa on my contacts list.

Outside of that I know one of the Queens Park scouts who goes around watching youth football matches in return for free admission to Hampden, and a free bovril when he goes - and at Motherwell they've got a policeman who tours the local pitches and he tells me he does it in return for a season ticket for Fir Park each year.

Scouting is all about getting intel. That's all it is. It doesn't have to be expensive and you don't have to run an army of full time scouts. I've kept banging on about the importance of having a good working relationship with community football clubs across the country as their coaches will have SFA Coaching Badges and they will have experience of watching a large number of youth players in each age group and they will know what ones they think are potential stars for the future. Sadly St Mirren don't appear to have done any of that - at least not outside of the P&D leagues.

Not even the P&D

[saintnextlifetime]

You might be right but it still costs money.

Funding a proper scouting network would require cuts elsewhere.

There's a general lack of understanding of finance amongst our fans

Unless you borrow money, which we all agree we shouldn't do (I hope) there is a fixed pot of money from which everything has to be paid.

What has happened this season is attendances have gone through the floor because fans have deserted the team.

As a result we're seeing necessary cost cutting to cope with that financial hit.

I'd have thought all of this was very obvious and very straightforwards.

Check out the next set of financial results. I'd be prepared to bet we've still run a loss despite all the cuts.

The financial hit this season came in the form of loss of revenue from Hertz and Hips fans and the loss of sponsorship money , for the whole league not just SMFC Ltd. . I believe the loss of sponsorship revenue hit some clubs harder than us. .

[HSS]

There is NO bright side to the situation we are in at the moment.

[Lord Pityme]

As a matter of interest apart from the players who else do you think would lose their jobs?!

Coaching staff, community coaches, back office staff, groundsmen at Ralston, stewards basically every are will be looked at and head count cut.

[Lord Pityme]

I agree with that. 7-0 defeat by Raith, 4-1 at home by Clyde, 4-0 at Alloa.

We're likely to go from treading water in the Premiership to treading water in the Championship - for a few years anyway.

The likely reliance on youth if/when we get relegated takes me back to the 90s and a succession of young lads coming into the team, being hailed as great prospects, playing 4 or 5 games and then disappearing because they simply weren't good enough. Mixed with a succession of journeyman pros that we all look and back laugh at.

RE your last paragraph.... That sounds like a summary of season 2014-15 so far!

[madball]

The "operate within our means" bit has been overplayed by this BoD. They have cut way too deep. There's a difference between counting pennies and genuine investment and the latter has been missing for at least 3 years now. We no longer have a decent team to watch, very little talent at youth level, no marketing, no communications and seemingly no plans.

I'd disagree re cutting too deep. I think the budget cuts have been appropriate, but what I would question is whether we've had value for what we have spent and the answer for me is a firm no.

We had an opportunity in the summer to rebuild completely starting with management and coaching and ended up with a complete shambles that we are still paying out. We needed players for several positions in the summer and signed a whole series of no mark strikers and didn't shore up the centre of defence.

The club needs to set out some form of strategic vision and recruit around that, both in terms of coaching staff and players, and no longer lurch from crisis to crisis. We aren't going to get that from the current residents in the boardroom and need a Chief Exec or Chairman to be active. Relegation might be the best thing to happen or it could lead to a spell outside the top flight as before, but whatever happens we need a clear direction.

[Lord Pityme]

I'd disagree re cutting too deep. I think the budget cuts have been appropriate, but what I would question is whether we've had value for what we have spent and the answer for me is a firm no.

We had an opportunity in the summer to rebuild completely starting with management and coaching and ended up with a complete shambles that we are still paying out. We needed players for several positions in the summer and signed a whole series of no mark strikers and didn't shore up the centre of defence.

The club needs to set out some form of strategic vision and recruit around that, both in terms of coaching staff and players, and no longer lurch from crisis to crisis. We aren't going to get that from the current residents in the boardroom and need a Chief Exec or Chairman to be active. Relegation might be the best thing to happen or it could lead to a spell outside the top flight as before, but whatever happens we need a clear direction.

Did you say 'One Direction'..?

[Lord Pityme]

GT gains a couple of feet, has a hair and wardrobe restyle to make this video which is played every time our league position is mentioned at training or in the dressing room!

Go Gazz..!

Edited March 24, 2015 by Lord Pityme

[oaksoft]

We don't have the cash in the bank to run at a loss, the loss on paper will be down to depreciation.

Fair enough. Either way I'm pretty sure it won't show a profit.

The reason the other clubs our size are doing better is down to one or more of three things.

They are either spending beyond their means (which some of them are) or they are simply buying better (which most of them are) or they have better coaching staff/management (debatable).

All of these clubs will go down again at some point.