10000 Hours - Re-Loaded?

[pozbaird]

I think we would need some pretty high profile saints fans backing such a bid, even if only to provide the face of it to the media.

The likes of Dougie Vipond, Chick Young (yes him), Brookmyre, Tony Fitz, Vanzy, the sort of people the fans can relate to as being "one of us" but who also carry some weight in the media. We definitely need a "figurehead".

Shereen Nanjiani, Captain Sensible and Kid Jensen for me Div.

[Lord Pityme]

Who would you fancy 'at the helm' of any new fan takeover? From whom you know out there to be 'St Mirren minded' and a possible candidate.

We are a small family, we know the names of relatively high-profile fans, the SMiSA guys, the fan council....

Finally, would you subject them to the same scrutiny as those at the helm of the 10000hours bid.

Absolutely! Anyone whose opening gambit is to hive off the club revenue streams to his pals is a serious risk to the continued longevity of the club. It isn't like we have a list of revenue generating streams that we can dish them out to any John, Paul, Luke or Kibble!

[RickMcD]

You think the 'off the record' conversations, the sellers suddenly letting it be known they are bang up for fan ownership etc and now this back door attempt to get the fans to 'ask' him to get involved, him saying ' ach well ok if your asking me to' are pure coincidence..?

Wake up and smell the Bovril..! Its so clumsy I almost mistook it for a Gordon McQueen forty yard charge to goal.

Sounds suspiciously like the same cant as we got a few years ago from Somner9 but as you have denied being the same cant, maybe I'm wrong.

[pozbaird]

I think we would need some pretty high profile saints fans backing such a bid, even if only to provide the face of it to the media.

The likes of Dougie Vipond, Chick Young (yes him), Brookmyre, Tony Fitz, Vanzy, the sort of people the fans can relate to as being "one of us" but who also carry some weight in the media. We definitely need a "figurehead".

High profile fans and ex-players backing the bid I understand Div. Leading the bid, the ones who will become the new SG, Campbell, McAusland & Co, with responsibility for hiring and firing, signing off on expenses, and being in club suits, and representing St Mirren at SPFL meetings etc...

That's the bit I don't know about.

[Drew]

I think we would need some pretty high profile saints fans backing such a bid, even if only to provide the face of it to the media.

The likes of Dougie Vipond, Chick Young (yes him), Brookmyre, Tony Fitz, Vanzy, the sort of people the fans can relate to as being "one of us" but who also carry some weight in the media. We definitely need a "figurehead".

If we can substitute Chick for Dougie Henshall....I'm in!

[Lord Pityme]

Sounds suspiciously like the same cant as we got a few years ago from Somner9 but as you have denied being the same cant, maybe I'm wrong.

This is a potential fan ownership thread, if you want to throw insults, abuse etc I created a thread in General Nonsense for that "Serious Question" please don't spoil this thread for the majority.

Edit: if the troll keeps at it I apologise to all others on the thread, but in my defence it surely shows I can still pull.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Lord Pityme

[RickMcD]

This is a potential fan ownership thread, if you want to throw insults, abuse etc I created a thread in General Nonsense for that "Serious Question" please don't spoil this thread for the majority.

You seem to be bitter and disaffected, Somner9. What makes you think you have ever been in a majority of St.Mirren fans? You just keep coming across as an idiot.

[garzo]

stop the bickering pls.

Too much at stake

Edited April 9, 2015 by garzo

[div]

High profile fans and ex-players backing the bid I understand Div. Leading the bid, the ones who will become the new SG, Campbell, McAusland & Co, with responsibility for hiring and firing, signing off on expenses, and being in club suits, and representing St Mirren at SPFL meetings etc...

That's the bit I don't know about.

Indeed. I did also speak to Ian Henderson, he is definitely up for getting involved and may even have his own plans brewing but he sounds like the sort of local saints minded businessman who might be a good fit for any new board, not least because he's already in there and would hit the ground running.

From a footballing point of view Ricky Gillies is still local, part of a successful football agency. He might be up for getting involved too.

Just needs someone to bring it all together, the potential is there as far as I am concerned and the timing is maybe right to give it another go.

[FTOF]

Our current custodians have had the gas cut off, left the empties lying at the back door, and taken a shite in the rubber plant's pot.

Go on. Admit it. You've tried this out.

There are easier ways to get rid of greenfly.

Edited April 9, 2015 by FTOF

[Mid Calder Saint]

Div between you and REA is it possible now for an initial Meeting to kick things off.I fully understand you wish to minimise your involvement but I get a feeling there is a real chance this time around.

[TopCat]

The main concern I have then is who would man the board of directors. You would be looking for some sensible business minded individuals from within the membership to sit on the board and take the club forward. People with a lot of time to give, for no reward.

People who would have a thick enough skin to cope with the huge amount of abuse that would come their way if things weren't going well.

!

People like our current board...

If anyone was thinking of going on our board of directors I would imagine a quick look at this forum and other social media would put them off quickly. Why expose yourself and your family to that kind of thing with no tangible payback?

I've seen Gilmour called a 'prick' on here and accused of embezzlement on Facebook just over the last couple of days.

And then these same people wonder why we can't find a buyer...

Edited April 9, 2015 by TopCat

[buddiecat]

If it's to happen at all, I vote for the selling consortium making the first move, being pro-active for once, and reaching out to SMiSA, the fan council, the supporter's clubs, and fans in general.

Tell us what's on their mind and where they want to go with this. Let's see where we are then.

Richard did it. Like him, loathe him, or anywhere in-between, he started by approaching small groups of fans, stepped it up to open meetings, made himself available online, produced online and printed literature...

He tried - you cannot accuse him of not trying. I'm prepared to listen to what the selling consortium have to say, so let's hear it.

That is exactly what needs to happen IMO. I would like to have them come out and say "this is the amount you need, these are the type of people you need, and here is how you should go about it, now it's up to you to find out if you can achieve what is necessary before we hand over the reins"

I am aware this may be asking for too much assistance for no reward, but the BOD are the only group I would trust to give us straightforward no strings attached advice.

[melmac]

I'm available for any initial powwow. If people want to have a go at anybody trying to do something positive, they can mibi take themselves elsewhere, rehashing the same old crap they spouted previously is just wasting everyone's time.

[TsuMirren]

Indeed. I did also speak to Ian Henderson, he is definitely up for getting involved and may even have his own plans brewing but he sounds like the sort of local saints minded businessman who might be a good fit for any new board, not least because he's already in there and would hit the ground running.

From a footballing point of view Ricky Gillies is still local, part of a successful football agency. He might be up for getting involved too.

Just needs someone to bring it all together, the potential is there as far as I am concerned and the timing is maybe right to give it another go.

Ricky may have to be careful of how involved he can get if he runs an agency. Not sure how far it all extends. But yeah, it does need a front man.

[Drew]

Go on. Admit it. You've tried this out.

There are easier ways to get rid of greenfly.

Maybe so, but none of them tickle your sphincter.

[Tam M]

I would be happy to get involved in trying to make fan ownership a success in anyway possible.

I agree that £800,000 would be a reasonable value for our club, especially in the Championship. However, I have doubt's now that SG and his group own 75% of the shares that this would be accepted. However, with the fans now turning against them, they might decide it's best to cut their losses and go. The fact they increased their shareholding to this amount alarms me with regards to the type of person they may now be prepared to sell to.

If there are products out there that could see a lump sum being paid to the BoD with subsequent payments being made, I would very much be in support of this model.

Rea - What kind of interest rate would we be paying on such borrowing? How much, realistically, is possible to be obtained via grants?

If we could get a couple of grants in place, 2,000 supporters paying £10 a month, a hundred 'life time' membership of £1,000, and memberships from local businesses then I do think we could realistically achieve our goals. The only concern is if we have to them reward local businesses by giving them use of the facilities free then this would take away from potential income that a BoD with commercial sense could achieve.

In relation to any new BoD, I would like to see members voting for new BoD's every 5 years or so. Fans and local business owners can put themselves forward to sit on the BoD and members of the Fan Ownership group can vote for those they believe are right for the role.

I'd also like the idea of a 'sub group' with people responsible for to try and progress in certain areas of the club and putting changes to the BoD to vote on - similar to Fans Council I suppose. Having individuals/working groups with sole responsibility to improve things like Match Day Experience.

Ultimately, it's now or never IMO. I pledged for 1000hours, but I never really sat down and took the time to understand the model (as it was quite complex in areas). But I would be willing to support and lend a hand in anyway I can to another bid. You just need to look at Hearts to see how people with an interest and determination to succeed, along with a good team of young players can change things dramatically.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Tam M

[Vambo57]

A sure sign that a post is nonsense, has been written by someone with the intelligence of a monkey and can be ignored is when its typed up in capitals.

WHAT A COMPLETE FEKIN IGNORANT ZOOMER...

[Drew]

I would be happy to get involved in trying to make fan ownership a success in anyway possible.

I agree that £800,000 would be a reasonable value for our club, especially in the Championship. However, I have doubt's now that SG and his group own 75% of the shares that this would be accepted. However, with the fans now turning against them, they might decide it's best to cut their losses and go. The fact they increased their shareholding to this amount alarms me with regards to the type of person they may now be prepared to sell to.

If there are products out there that could see a lump sum being paid to the BoD with subsequent payments being made, I would very much be in support of this model.

Rea - What kind of interest rate would we be paying on such borrowing? How much, realistically, is possible to be obtained via grants?

If we could get a couple of grants in place, 2,000 supporters paying £10 a month, a hundred 'life time' membership of £1,000, and memberships from local businesses then I do think we could realistically achieve our goals. The only concern is if we have to them reward local businesses by giving them use of the facilities free then this would take away from potential income that a BoD with commercial sense could achieve.

In relation to any new BoD, I would like to see members voting for new BoD's every 5 years or so. Fans and local business owners can put themselves forward to sit on the BoD and members of the Fan Ownership group can vote for those they believe are right for the role.

I'd also like the idea of a 'sub group' with people responsible for to try and progress in certain areas of the club and putting changes to the BoD to vote on - similar to Fans Council I suppose. Having individuals/working groups with sole responsibility to improve things like Match Day Experience.

Ultimately, it's now or never IMO. I pledged for 1000hours, but I never really sat down and took the time to understand the model (as it was quite complex in areas). But I would be willing to support and lend a hand in anyway I can to another bid. You just need to look at Hearts to see how people with an interest and determination to succeed, along with a good team of young players can change things dramatically.

A lot of good ideas in there, Tam. Once again, however, we need a signal of intent (or willingness to co-operate) from the current incumbents. In the absence of this, it is difficult to see how things could move forward.

[Bud the Baker]

Like poz says - more of an 'umble attitude from SG, GC.

Like Drew says - £800k is a more realistic price.

My message to the Consortium - cut your losses.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Bud the Baker

[Stuart Dickson]

Not sure about an up front payment, but I would commit to £10 or possibly £15 a month.

An initiative like this might kick-start the club which seems to be dying on its arse with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I could commit to a small lump sum if I felt the project was right - however for that to happen there would have to be evidence that it was going to have a strong commitment to the local community and not just to the fans of the football club. I would also be happy to commit to a regular payment, however I would stop my current contribution to SMiSA as - IMO - in the event of a fan ownership model not being fronted by them, they would become completely irrelevant.

[Tam M]

A lot of good ideas in there, Tam. Once again, however, we need a signal of intent (or willingness to co-operate) from the current incumbents. In the absence of this, it is difficult to see how things could move forward.

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be happy to discuss another fan led take over of the club, as they have already waited five years and don't appear to be any closer to selling the club. They could also see this as an opportunity to try and build some bridges with the support again as I have never witnessed such anger against the current BoD for their handling of club matters recently (and I include myself in this).

First and foremost a venture like this will never get off the ground unless there is a group of people willing to put in the hours and work alongside existing commitments. The first thing we would need to do is form a group of individuals who would be willing to do this. As I said, I would be happy to be part of this but I’m the first person to admit I do not have any technical knowledge on this subject, but if Richard is willing to provide us with any advice we need, then I’m confident the group could make a success of it.

The group can then seek guidance from Richard on how such a model could work and hopefully he’ll be kind enough to advise on how we would go about things, and of course the legal aspects that I’m sure we will need considerable help with.

With a draft plan and having been provided with knowledge and guidance from Richard, we could arrange a meeting with the BoD to see if they would have any interest in us pursuing this further. The BoD (and quite rightly) are not going to come out and publically say they would accept £800,000, when it’s possible someone in the wings could be about to step in with a £1.5m offer, but hopefully they could give us some kind of indication if our proposal would be anywhere near acceptable or not.

The next stage would be to engage all the supporters groups such as SMISA, Fans Council and Supporter Buses/Clubs to establish if there is the potential to get off the ground. We would then need to get pledges similar to the 1000hours bid from businesses and supporters. As well as getting agreed funding in place via grants and loans, before making any formal bid.

It will of course be a long drawn out process but the rewards will be worth it I reckon.

But, I don’t agree with the refusal to engage until the BoD make the first move. The BoD will be long gone one day, but we will still be there as will the future generation of supporters. Who cares who makes the first move, if we really want to make this work, lets stop talking about it and start organising it. We (the fans) are the only people who can make this work.

[Lord Pityme]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be happy to discuss another fan led take over of the club, as they have already waited five years and don't appear to be any closer to selling the club. They could also see this as an opportunity to try and build some bridges with the support again as I have never witnessed such anger against the current BoD for their handling of club matters recently (and I include myself in this). [/size]

[/size]

First and foremost a venture like this will never get off the ground unless there is a group of people willing to put in the hours and work alongside existing commitments. The first thing we would need to do is form a group of individuals who would be willing to do this. As I said, I would be happy to be part of this but I’m the first person to admit I do not have any technical knowledge on this subject, but if Richard is willing to provide us with any advice we need, then I’m confident the group could make a success of it. [/size]

[/size]

The group can then seek guidance from Richard on how such a model could work and hopefully he’ll be kind enough to advise on how we would go about things, and of course the legal aspects that I’m sure we will need considerable help with.[/size]

[/size]

With a draft plan and having been provided with knowledge and guidance from Richard, we could arrange a meeting with the BoD to see if they would have any interest in us pursuing this further. The BoD (and quite rightly) are not going to come out and publically say they would accept £800,000, when it’s possible someone in the wings could be about to step in with a £1.5m offer, but hopefully they could give us some kind of indication if our proposal would be anywhere near acceptable or not. [/size]

[/size]

The next stage would be to engage all the supporters groups such as SMISA, Fans Council and Supporter Buses/Clubs to establish if there is the potential to get off the ground. We would then need to get pledges similar to the 1000hours bid from businesses and supporters. As well as getting agreed funding in place via grants and loans, before making any formal bid. [/size]

[/size]

It will of course be a long drawn out process but the rewards will be worth it I reckon. [/size]

[/size]

But, I don’t agree with the refusal to engage until the BoD make the first move. The BoD will be long gone one day, but we will still be there as will the future generation of supporters. Who cares who makes the first move, if we really want to make this work, lets stop talking about it and start organising it. We (the fans) are the only people who can make this work. [/size]

If you engage with the supporters groups First! And don't involve Richard you will find it a lot easier to convince the majority that it is a cause worth signing up to. It was all arse about face the last time until! They wanted the supporters money. Live and learn buddie, live and learn.

[pozbaird]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be happy to discuss another fan led take over of the club, as they have already waited five years and don't appear to be any closer to selling the club. They could also see this as an opportunity to try and build some bridges with the support again as I have never witnessed such anger against the current BoD for their handling of club matters recently (and I include myself in this). [/size]

[/size]

First and foremost a venture like this will never get off the ground unless there is a group of people willing to put in the hours and work alongside existing commitments. The first thing we would need to do is form a group of individuals who would be willing to do this. As I said, I would be happy to be part of this but Im the first person to admit I do not have any technical knowledge on this subject, but if Richard is willing to provide us with any advice we need, then Im confident the group could make a success of it. [/size]

[/size]

The group can then seek guidance from Richard on how such a model could work and hopefully hell be kind enough to advise on how we would go about things, and of course the legal aspects that Im sure we will need considerable help with.[/size]

[/size]

With a draft plan and having been provided with knowledge and guidance from Richard, we could arrange a meeting with the BoD to see if they would have any interest in us pursuing this further. The BoD (and quite rightly) are not going to come out and publically say they would accept £800,000, when its possible someone in the wings could be about to step in with a £1.5m offer, but hopefully they could give us some kind of indication if our proposal would be anywhere near acceptable or not. [/size]

[/size]

The next stage would be to engage all the supporters groups such as SMISA, Fans Council and Supporter Buses/Clubs to establish if there is the potential to get off the ground. We would then need to get pledges similar to the 1000hours bid from businesses and supporters. As well as getting agreed funding in place via grants and loans, before making any formal bid. [/size]

[/size]

It will of course be a long drawn out process but the rewards will be worth it I reckon. [/size]

[/size]

But, I dont agree with the refusal to engage until the BoD make the first move. The BoD will be long gone one day, but we will still be there as will the future generation of supporters. Who cares who makes the first move, if we really want to make this work, lets stop talking about it and start organising it. We (the fans) are the only people who can make this work. [/size]

Strongly disagree on one point - the selling consortium should absolutely, 100% be making the first move. All we know is Div had a casual conversation with the chairman, who 'is open' to the idea. This is extremely vague at best.

I could make a move right now. Div could make a move right now. Santaponsa Saint's dug' could make the first move. To do what? To offer what? In what manner? Over what time? So many questions.

Say any of us were selling our house / car / children into slavery... whatever. There may well be individuals or a group of people who would make us an offer, but unless they had heard from us through an estate agent or advert in the paper how much we wanted, what the house was like, and what condition it was in - how could a prospective buyer make the first move?

The selling consortium have a dedicated club website right there for their use. They could stick a full-page advert in the Ross County programme at the drop of a hat. They could feed wee Chico a story, call a pal at the PDE, ask SMiSA and the fan council to put an initial notice of intent on those organisations dedicated websites. Christ, they could start a thread on here. Hand out leaflets at the County game. Make an announcement over the tannoy at the County game. Arrange an open meeting in their very own dedicated corporate suite.....Put a message on the scoreboard... Nah, forget that. They'd do it in Comic Sans, 8pt, pink on a yellow background.

It isn't about being stubborn as a supporter and saying 'nah - you go first'. It's clearly simple common sense that they, as the group trying to sell 'go first' to give any prospective buyer a clue as to what they should or could do to meet what the sellers are asking for.

Edited April 10, 2015 by pozbaird

[Tam M]

If you engage with the supporters groups First! And don't involve Richard you will find it a lot easier to convince the majority that it is a cause worth signing up to. It was all arse about face the last time until! They wanted the supporters money. Live and learn buddie, live and learn.

Hopefully, many of the supporter groups will want to be involved in the first place, but ignoring Richard's advice and experience in trying similar would be foolish, IMO.