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10000 Hours - Re-Loaded?


Lord Pityme
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I just think it would be lunacy to try and launch a seperate bid. What is there to stop every SMISA member cancelling their fees to fund the bid? Indeed the absolutely ultimate lunacy would be having to then invite SMISA to become involved/support the bid.

I don't know how plainer to say it, Smisa are not launching a bid to takeover SMFC ! they are trying to secure representation on the board that is all. So any bid would stand alone as THE fan bid. But no one wants to do it thus far.

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Hindsight is an exact science. When 10,000 hours final bid was rejected, correctly in my view in view of the amount of leverage associated with it, did anyone really believe that three years later we would be where we are now? I don't know SMiSA's thoughts on this but I bet their attitude and course of action would have been hugely different had they known. A fan takeover could have been a real possibility by now and I honestly feel a lot more fans would have been prepared to commit to a monthly payment. Now it's difficult to see where we go. Unless we get a beneficent new owner, and that's hard to imagine at this stage, we're back in no man's land and drifting with no rudder. Yet fans keep worrying that we will be asset stripped by ruthless foreigners. But for what assets? What is the club worth now? What will it be worth at this time next year? I've no answers.

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What water am I muddying in the paragraph you highlighted in bold? We were discussing if a new 'fan based' bid could still happen, and there were discussions about who would head up such a bid, become the 'new SG'. My paragraph states that REA, GLS, Fitzy and others, would have been at the sharp end, while us ordinary fans only requirement was to commit to the ten quid a month DDs.

Can you clarify?

Mis-read your post on the bus, using my phone but not my specs!

i thought you were implying that 10kh failed partly due to the fans not fronting up

reading from solid ground and with occular aids in place I can see my howler (that is not a pet name for anything)

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I had a fairly long chat with SG before the Motherwell game.

He told me that all previously interested parties who were looking to buy the club have now left the scene, there is NO party currently working on a deal to buy the club.

The board are open to fan ownership, they are open to a model that would see the fans take control via a subscription model over a number of years but crucially it would need to be backed by some sort of guarantee.

So in theory say if the majority shareholding was to be sold, let's say for £1.2m which was the price that 10000Hours bid at.

If the 1200 fans who subscribed previously each took out a financial commitment to pay £1000 over a 5 year period that would be £17 a month (on an interest free basis).

That would raise £1.2m over 5 years and the club would be ours.

Of course the asking price on relegation is difficult to quantify. I don't know how the material value of the club will be affected following relegation.

In the 3.5 years that have passed since the 10000hours bid was rejected the fans subscriptions would have raised £504K.

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I had a fairly long chat with SG before the Motherwell game.

He told me that all previously interested parties who were looking to buy the club have now left the scene, there is NO party currently working on a deal to buy the club.

The board are open to fan ownership, they are open to a model that would see the fans take control via a subscription model over a number of years but crucially it would need to be backed by some sort of guarantee.

So in theory say if the majority shareholding was to be sold, let's say for £1.2m which was the price that 10000Hours bid at.

If the 1200 fans who subscribed previously each took out a financial commitment to pay £1000 over a 5 year period that would be £17 a month (on an interest free basis).

That would raise £1.2m over 5 years and the club would be ours.

Of course the asking price on relegation is difficult to quantify. I don't know how the material value of the club will be affected following relegation.

In the 3.5 years that have passed since the 10000hours bid was rejected the fans subscriptions would have raised £504K.

What is the Consortium these days - the original 5 with their circa 52% of the shareholding or the expanded one with ex-directors GLS & KM & 75% or is it fluid?

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I had a fairly long chat with SG before the Motherwell game.

He told me that all previously interested parties who were looking to buy the club have now left the scene, there is NO party currently working on a deal to buy the club.

The board are open to fan ownership, they are open to a model that would see the fans take control via a subscription model over a number of years but crucially it would need to be backed by some sort of guarantee.

So in theory say if the majority shareholding was to be sold, let's say for £1.2m which was the price that 10000Hours bid at.

If the 1200 fans who subscribed previously each took out a financial commitment to pay £1000 over a 5 year period that would be £17 a month (on an interest free basis).

That would raise £1.2m over 5 years and the club would be ours.

Of course the asking price on relegation is difficult to quantify. I don't know how the material value of the club will be affected following relegation.

In the 3.5 years that have passed since the 10000hours bid was rejected the fans subscriptions would have raised £504K.

The "guarantee" as you Div know was always an issue with all the work 10000hours put in, we did come up with a way of dealing with it but fundamentally only £1.25m could be Guaranteed legally and that was not enough

There is new ways of doing this now that can give guarantee of the form you mention above that have become available recently however it cannot be done using these interest free and would be capped at £500 so at £1.2 you would need 2400 members, (more than possible if the Club actually name it as the way forward, like at Motherwell) or if the price drops to say £800,000 which i seem to recall is a cost of shares number (some one will be able to correct) is 1600 members

As Foundation of Hearts now have 8000 members and Rangers First have 13500 can SMFC fans get 1600-2400....if it becomes the policy of the Club to promote FO then yes it can IMHO

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I had a fairly long chat with SG before the Motherwell game.

He told me that all previously interested parties who were looking to buy the club have now left the scene, there is NO party currently working on a deal to buy the club.

The board are open to fan ownership, they are open to a model that would see the fans take control via a subscription model over a number of years but crucially it would need to be backed by some sort of guarantee.

So in theory say if the majority shareholding was to be sold, let's say for £1.2m which was the price that 10000Hours bid at.

If the 1200 fans who subscribed previously each took out a financial commitment to pay £1000 over a 5 year period that would be £17 a month (on an interest free basis).

That would raise £1.2m over 5 years and the club would be ours.

Of course the asking price on relegation is difficult to quantify. I don't know how the material value of the club will be affected following relegation.

In the 3.5 years that have passed since the 10000hours bid was rejected the fans subscriptions would have raised £504K.

Do I sense a '10000hours 3.5 Years Legends/Casino Night' in the offing?

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Excuse my ignorance. How can you guarantee direct debits?

You can guarantee that if the club goes on a bad run and/or fans perceive those running the club to be doing the wrong thing, several supporters will take the huff and cancel them.

What happens then?

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The "guarantee" as you Div know was always an issue with all the work 10000hours put in, we did come up with a way of dealing with it but fundamentally only £1.25m could be Guaranteed legally and that was not enough

There is new ways of doing this now that can give guarantee of the form you mention above that have become available recently however it cannot be done using these interest free and would be capped at £500 so at £1.2 you would need 2400 members, (more than possible if the Club actually name it as the way forward, like at Motherwell) or if the price drops to say £800,000 which i seem to recall is a cost of shares number (some one will be able to correct) is 1600 members

As Foundation of Hearts now have 8000 members and Rangers First have 13500 can SMFC fans get 1600-2400....if it becomes the policy of the Club to promote FO then yes it can IMHO

In the eyes of the support Kenny McLean was worth over a £1,000,000.We sold him for £300,000 which in my book means that you only get what someones willing to pay.Need i say any more???

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Excuse my ignorance. How can you guarantee direct debits?

You can guarantee that if the club goes on a bad run and/or fans perceive those running the club to be doing the wrong thing, several supporters will take the huff and cancel them.

What happens then?

you dont.

for it to remain DD which could be cancelled or increase at a moments notice you would need significant headroom in your numbers to allow for any decrease, and ultimately the only financial guarantee would need to be a personal one given over the top of the DD, which was done to an extent.

However new financial lending rules have created new products which would allow small debts to be easily created for 5 years which converts your commitment to pay £X per month into an advanced lump sum which when gathered together with hundreds of others could get you to £800k - £1.25m, but it is a totally different level of commitment that what 10000hours was originally built upon.

but the passing of time means these services now exist which did not 3.5 years ago

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Given that we will be a Championship club a selling price of £900k should be acceptable payable in annual instalments.We can surely get sufficient subscribers amongst our fanbase to make this viable.

Certainly possible but it would need the full bloodied support of the Club to promote it, like Hearts had, manger, player, media etc

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Interesting discussion here recently.

What is an acceptable share transfer cost, given our trading & profit profile in recent years?

Notwithstanding being a lower league club, would less than £300k be a fair offer for goodwill?

it is always the most difficult question....how do you value a Football Club...it makes no money, so in principal if treated as normal business it is worth nothing...hence the reason why football Clubs are not normal businesses

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Richard would you be willing to get involved with another bid as regards to the fan ownership. ?

I fundamentally still believe FO is the way forward for all Clubs, and since St Mirren have been involved with other Clubs to help bring that about. I am still committed to this for any Club and am always happy to help and share, if i have anything of value to bring to the table.

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I fundamentally still believe FO is the way forward for all Clubs, and since St Mirren have been involved with other Clubs to help bring that about. I am still committed to this for any Club and am always happy to help and share, if i have anything of value to bring to the table.

It's the only viable option to take the club forward given whats happened as regards to all the previous failed attempts at selling.

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It's the only viable option to take the club forward given whats happened as regards to all the previous failed attempts at selling.

Well, for it to happen, folk are going to need to step up to learn about it and give it a go directly, it will take folk who have been life long fans to make it happen not folk like me from the "outside" having a bright idea

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Well, for it to happen, folk are going to need to step up to learn about it and give it a go directly, it will take folk who have been life long fans to make it happen not folk like me from the "outside" having a bright idea

I used to agree with you but the evidence is not really there to support the fact that fans will run clubs any better than a bunch of dispassionate directors (in general I mean, I'm not talking about our current BOD).

IMO fans will dump the club when results go against us, leaving us with a shortfall and financial problems which result in things like our best player being sold in mid season to pay the wages.

Fans are the worst people for running any business. They'd run it with their hearts not their heads.

Most of the fans whining on this forum this season clearly can't do even the most basic mental arithmetic.

I'm not just talking about the obvious forum clowns either.

We're hearing from people who appear to be reasonably intelligent accusing our board of "penny pinching" etc whilst displaying no obvious understanding of why cutting costs was and remains a necessity.

Sorry but fans are not the answer to this IMO. I am willing to be persuaded otherwise though.

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