Tam M Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Strongly disagree on one point - the selling consortium should absolutely, 100% be making the first move. All we know is Div had a casual conversation with the chairman, who 'is open' to the idea. This is extremely vague at best. I could make a move right now. Div could make a move right now. Santaponsa Saint's dug' could make the first move. To do what? Say any of us were selling our house / car / children into slavery... whatever. There may well be individuals or a group of people who would make us an offer, but unless they had heard from us through an estate agent or advert in the paper how much we wanted, what the house was like, and what condition it was in - how could a prospective buyer make the first move? The selling consortium have a dedicated club website right there for the use of. They could stick a full-page advert in the Ross County programme at the drop of a hat. They could feed wee Chico a story, call a pal at the PDE, ask SMiSA and the fan council to put an initial notice of intent on those organisations dedicated websites. Christ, they could start a thread on here. Hand out leaflets at the County game. Make an announcement over the tannoy at tne County game. Arrange an open meeting in their verybown dedicated corporate suite..... It isn't about being stubborn as a supporter and saying 'nah - you go first'. It's clearly simple common sense. They are a selling consortium trying desperately to sell! I understand where you're coming from Poz, but I also know how our BoD are with communicating to supporters, which is why I wouldn't be waiting about for them to make a signal of intent. We know the club is for sale, we know they are struggling to sell and that we would all prefer it to be run by people who had the interests of St Mirren at heart. Why wait? Edited April 10, 2015 by Tam M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 I understand where you're coming from Poz, but I also know how our BoD are with communicating to supporters, which is why I wouldn't be waiting about for them to make a signal of intent. We know the club is for sale, we know they are struggling to sell and that we would all prefer it to be run by people who had the interests of St Mirren at heart. Why wait? 194 topics and 19897 posts (not including this one) plus a further 158 topics and 13908 replies in the 10000hours subforum are an indication that we're interested in the future of the club and the possibility of a takeover by a fans group, it's up to the Consortium to make the move............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Hopefully, many of the supporter groups will want to be involved in the first place, but ignoring Richard's advice and experience in trying similar would be foolish, IMO. And doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result isn't? I can only offer the opinions i have heard, bear in mind the board removed him as they felt his presence was detrimental to their chances of selling the club and we all know how carefully they weigh up anything that could hit them in the pocket! It will stand a better chance and be easier if it is a NEW proposal from fans, to fans and the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 194 topics and 19897 posts (not including this one) plus a further 158 topics and 13908 replies in the 10000hours subforum are an indication that we're interested in the future of the club and the possibility of a takeover by a fans group, it's up to the Consortium to make the move............... So currently we are at a stalemate. The club is for sale and the BOD are open to offers. The fans are saying ' You come to us first ' and no one's budging. Oh well, here's to another 5 years worth of discussion. Why can't the fans who are interested approach the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) So currently we are at a stalemate. The club is for sale and the BOD are open to offers. The fans are saying ' You come to us first ' and no one's budging. Oh well, here's to another 5 years worth of discussion. Why can't the fans who are interested approach the board? We don't know if they are open to offers (in regard to 'fan ownership'). We don't know anything, other than the one comment Div has relayed on a fan forum. Which is exactly the point I am making. It isn't about being a stubborn pig, it's about genuinely knowing hee-haw. The way to rectify that is very simple. Edited April 10, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam M Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 SG has already confirmed to Div that there would be consideration of any fan based buy out of the club. There is no specific group in place just now that are saying ‘We want to lead a buy out of the club’. So are we just wanting to BoD to say that they would consider it? If so, they have done to Div who has now shared that information. With regards to Richard being involved, he wouldn’t be involved in any said group. It’s clear from this thread he has distanced himself from being involved. However, what I have said it would be foolish not to listen to someone that clearly had in depth knowledge of the workings of such model and as he said himself, could help us to learn from the mistakes he made. Ultimately, any decisions would be made by the group of fans leading the buy out and not by Richard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 SG has already confirmed to Div that there would be consideration of any fan based buy out of the club. There is no specific group in place just now that are saying ‘We want to lead a buy out of the club’. So are we just wanting to BoD to say that they would consider it? If so, they have done to Div who has now shared that information. With regards to Richard being involved, he wouldn’t be involved in any said group. It’s clear from this thread he has distanced himself from being involved. However, what I have said it would be foolish not to listen to someone that clearly had in depth knowledge of the workings of such model and as he said himself, could help us to learn from the mistakes he made. Ultimately, any decisions would be made by the group of fans leading the buy out and not by Richard. Fcuk it. Here's what I'm waiting on. They can use this if they want.... On the website... An open message to St Mirren supporters regarding the sale of the club. As you know, despite some interest from external parties, the club remains up for sale. The selling consortium directors believe that the time may be right to re-ignite the idea of a fan ownership model. To this end, we would like to hold an open meeting with supporters and supporter groups to discuss the way forward, and to look into possible ways that the club could be passed on to fan-lead new ownership Corporate suite, St Mirren Park. 7pm, blah de blah. Took me four minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Let's not forget that Div was told that the club had been sold to the Argentinian consortium. Until there is something a bit more concrete, why should anyone piss their valuable time and energy into the wind with this? Apart from anything else, Gilmour is only one member of the selling consortium. Who is to know if his pals share his position on this. No disrespect intended, but I fear that there is a degree of naivety on display here. ETA:I also understand that Campbell was on driving duties on Tuesday night, so Gilmour had probably had a few nice Islay malts courtesy of Well's hospitality before he had spoken to Div. Edited April 10, 2015 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 SG has already confirmed to Div that there would be consideration of any fan based buy out of the club. There is no specific group in place just now that are saying ‘We want to lead a buy out of the club’. So are we just wanting to BoD to say that they would consider it? If so, they have done to Div who has now shared that information. With regards to Richard being involved, he wouldn’t be involved in any said group. It’s clear from this thread he has distanced himself from being involved. However, what I have said it would be foolish not to listen to someone that clearly had in depth knowledge of the workings of such model and as he said himself, could help us to learn from the mistakes he made. Ultimately, any decisions would be made by the group of fans leading the buy out and not by Richard. I can only share what I know try gauging the likes of Smisa's views on him being on board as a starter for ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Richard has already stated he is willing to host an initial Meeting to discuss tentative plans.Div is open to give his IT expertise.I have already stated we the Fans should make first moves with an offer of £800k spread over a four year period.Once we have the first meeting hopefully we can consider the number of Fans willing to sign up Monthly Direct Payments.I would hope for say between 1000 to 2000 contributing £10 to £20 per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Let's not forget that Div was told that the club had been sold to the Argentinian consortium. Until there is something a bit more concrete, why should anyone piss their valuable time and energy into the wind with this? Apart from anything else, Gilmour is only one member of the selling consortium. Who is to know if his pals share his position on this. No disrespect intended, but I fear that there is a degree of naivety on display here. ETA:I also understand that Campbell was on driving duties on Tuesday night, so Gilmour had probably had a few nice Islay malts courtesy of Well's hospitality before he had spoken to Div. I spoke with Stewart again today. The selling consortium ARE 100% open to selling to a fan led group if the deal and structure is right. What we first of all need to understand is what that deal and structure would need to be. A meeting will be had in the next week. Let's wait and see what comes out and then we can maybe take it on to the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam M Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 I spoke with Stewart again today. The selling consortium ARE 100% open to selling to a fan led group if the deal and structure is right. What we first of all need to understand is what that deal and structure would need to be. A meeting will be had in the next week. Let's wait and see what comes out and then we can maybe take it on to the next step. Stage one completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Stage one completed. I spoke with Stewart again today. The selling consortium ARE 100% open to selling to a fan led group if the deal and structure is right. What we first of all need to understand is what that deal and structure would need to be. A meeting will be had in the next week. Let's wait and see what comes out and then we can maybe take it on to the next step. A public meeting at SMP, that is a good place to start. Edited April 10, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) I spoke with Stewart again today. The selling consortium ARE 100% open to selling to a fan led group if the deal and structure is right. What we first of all need to understand is what that deal and structure would need to be. A meeting will be had in the next week. Let's wait and see what comes out and then we can maybe take it on to the next step. Aye, baby steps mind.... ETA: I take it he has sobered up? Edited April 10, 2015 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garzo Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Baby steps indeed but positive progress. Go forward with positive intent whilst remaining cautious. Early days to be placing a value or making an offer, although would be lower than figures previously touted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian Saint Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Richard has already stated he is willing to host an initial Meeting to discuss tentative plans.Div is open to give his IT expertise.I have already stated we the Fans should make first moves with an offer of £800k spread over a four year period.Once we have the first meeting hopefully we can consider the number of Fans willing to sign up Monthly Direct Payments.I would hope for say between 1000 to 2000 contributing £10 to £20 per month. I for one was prepared to pay and signed up to pay a hell of a lot more than that under 10000 hours. At that point there were more positives than negatives around the club. Would I commit to handing over money now? I'm not too sure. Falling gates that will probably be even less next season while the running costs of the club (stadium upkeep and so on) will probably stay the same or be higher. If the club were not prepared to accept the bid by 10000 hours, why would they do so now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loomo Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Mmm! Not sure about this at all. St.mirren fans in charge of st.mirren, yes that's fine by me, however, lots of st.mirren fans paying a monthly DD to have ownership of st.mirren? To many cooks and allthat.. Maybe I am missing something but there needs to be one man in complete control, or does there? Who is this or am I wrong? Also, all these "people" that keep posting on here with stupid names that are wanting to debate the ins and outs of club management and ownership, who the f**k are you all? Man up and tell us who you are!! I am loomo real name readily available and village I live in!!!not hard to find at all... #trustnocuntnotevenifhesabuddie:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam M Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 I for one was prepared to pay and signed up to pay a hell of a lot more than that under 10000 hours. At that point there were more positives than negatives around the club. Would I commit to handing over money now? I'm not too sure. Falling gates that will probably be even less next season while the running costs of the club (stadium upkeep and so on) will probably stay the same or be higher. If the club were not prepared to accept the bid by 10000 hours, why would they do so now? They didn't feel the model was acceptable. What's encouraging from Div's post is that the BoD are going to meet to discuss the possibility of Fan Ownership and hopefully they will outline a model acceptable to them that we will hopefully be able to create. Like you said the situation at the club was very positive and perhaps in hindsight it was wrong timing. However, now circumstances have dramatically changed they may feel it is now time to try this again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam M Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Mmm! Not sure about this at all. St.mirren fans in charge of st.mirren, yes that's fine by me, however, lots of st.mirren fans paying a monthly DD to have ownership of st.mirren? To many cooks and allthat..Maybe I am missing something but there needs to be one man in complete control, or does there? Who is this or am I wrong? Also, all these "people" that keep posting on here with stupid names that are wanting to debate the ins and outs of club management and ownership, who the f**k are you all? Man up and tell us who you are!! I am loomo real name readily available and village I live in!!!not hard to find at all... #trustnocuntnotevenifhesabuddie:-) The model I like is that the members of the group (those paying the DD) would be able to elect individual Directors for a specified period of time and then they could be voted back in or others could be given the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 We don't know if they are open to offers (in regard to 'fan ownership'). We don't know anything, other than the one comment Div has relayed on a fan forum. Which is exactly the point I am making. It isn't about being a stubborn pig, it's about genuinely knowing hee-haw. The way to rectify that is very simple. Why would they not be open to offers in regards to fan ownership? They entertained one for ages. They're clearly desperate to sell the club. You think they wouldn't talk to fans who wanted to buy the club...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 Why would they not be open to offers in regards to fan ownership? They entertained one for ages. They're clearly desperate to sell the club. You think they wouldn't talk to fans who wanted to buy the club...? At the time of posting, as I said, all we knew was a forum comment from Div about a casual conversation he had at a game with SG. As Drew later went on to say, SG is not the consortium, so no, we didn't know if they were open to a new fan-lead bid. Subsequently, Div has posted that he has spoken to SG again and there is going to be a meeting. Guess we will find out then where the selling consortium's heads are at regarding fan ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 I for one was prepared to pay and signed up to pay a hell of a lot more than that under 10000 hours. At that point there were more positives than negatives around the club. Would I commit to handing over money now? I'm not too sure. Falling gates that will probably be even less next season while the running costs of the club (stadium upkeep and so on) will probably stay the same or be higher. If the club were not prepared to accept the bid by 10000 hours, why would they do so now? Yes, the budget will need a lot of work for next season. As will ticket pricing, sponsorship, building a squad and the pre-season arrangements. A lot for a board to be working on so let's hope the model to come from the meeting can be taken on without too much back and forth. It's partially why I felt the information blitzkrieg should have started even before full agreement of the price/deal. You can get your initial numbers up front, perhaps a decent initial number with an announcement on Monday, message on the scoreboard and note posted next to each turnstile. As per before, I'd certainly commit money and time to this. If you're not too sure bud, then at least look at it as a chance to prove we aren't a Morton, Dunfermline or Livingston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Just correcting your speeling mistook. We are all painfully aware, especially this season, that they also make mistakes, even after all that consideration. You are so anti-REA that some might think he shagged your wife. Did he? Richard, you old dog. : ---------------------------------------------------------- Back on track, I'm up for this but, as others have said, the model has to be right and the foundations of the bid have to be solid. I'm willing to take advice from anyone with something constructive to say or who has experience in the process and weigh that advice on its own merits. Also, as already mentioned, we definitely need a figurehead - and a few other " high profile" Saints minded figures wouldn't go wrong. Maybe your right? Perhaps we should set aside his previous failings, turn the other cheek if you will and let Richard lead the fan buy-out of the club. Whilst we are in this mindset its probably the right time to float the idea of Tommy Craig being re-instated as manager for next season, he has got the experience, knows the club, the people and will also 'Hopefully' have learned from his mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Now where have i ever said, hinted or alluded to being "anti-fan ownership"..? 'Anti-FanBoy' I'll give you that, guilty as charged! Yes LP, looks like the way to chosen by the board is to leak info via BAWA, you have to wonder why the board choose to give info to one person about this, when they could easily give the info to the fans groups directly, they may have given the info to the fans council we may never know this though because they have had to sign a confidentiality agreement about disclosing info to other fans, their reason for being is quite clearly to do as told by the board. Until proven otherwise I have to treat this info in the same way I treated the nonsense about "the club being sold and an announcement will be made this week" that was a real howler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Yes LP, looks like the way to chosen by the board is to leak info via BAWA, you have to wonder why the board choose to give info to one person about this, when they could easily give the info to the fans groups directly, they may have given the info to the fans council we may never know this though because they have had to sign a confidentiality agreement about disclosing info to other fans, their reason for being is quite clearly to do as told by the board. Until proven otherwise I have to treat this info in the same way I treated the nonsense about "the club being sold and an announcement will be made this week" that was a real howler That's what I've been trying to say all week - no-one really knows nuthin'... So until the sellers open up and say something, no fans should be jumping in to make some sort of 'first move' whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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