Aint This The Truth

[The Original 59er]

Slartibartfast Posted 10 April 2015 - 22:30

What does being a provincial club have to do with anything?

The general description of a team that is outside of the large cities, ie Edinburgh and Glasgow would probably fall into the general categorisation of "provincial clubs".

As you are well aware the description will tend to be ascribed to teams that most likely don't have a large following and are also outside of the main support centres. I certainly wouldn't call Barcelona or Bayern Munich provincial, but I would Elche, Paderborn or Augsburg.

You know fine what is meant by 'Provincial', stop playing with words and accept that as a club we fall into the category of at least a second, if not third tier of the pecking order in Scottish football and as such you could almost argue that we have been punching above our weight for the last few years....................... but hey that what makes us St Mirren supporters rather than the green or blue bigots!

[DougJamie]

DougJamie, on 10 Apr 2015 - 14:30, said:

Sorry have to disagree with you.

Yes there are quite a number who have a similar opinion to the article, but it doesn't make them nodding dogs.

I have been consistent in my criticism of the Board for some time, it just so happens that the article articulates it better than most posters have on this forum.

Danny Lennon ran out of ideas. He made a number of failures in terms of signings and also his tactics were predictable to the point that teams could come to Paisley, pressure us and walk away with 3 points. His departure was on the cards for some time, and whilst almost everyone said he held his head high with dignity they way it was handled, ultimately his record spoke for itself............ he never moved the side on.

We have a record of getting rid of Managers, even after they win us cups!

The teams you mention are also provincial teams, but they are, or at least the majority of them are staying in the SPL this year. Their budget is similar, their record on signings is much better and they haven't a Board that has wanted out for something like 4 to 5 years.

The problem at Saints is at the top and the sickness that is the apathy at the top, has permeated all the way down to the team, who basically aren't good enough, even if they wanted to 'Play for the jerseys'.

Sorry, I think you are wrong.

And that's fine that you think I am wrong, the beauty of opinions on here. I also have criticized our BOD, signings and appointments but English just rolled that all into one statement, there are far more factors, biggest one, is this club is for sale. We don't have crooks running it, unlike terms I mentioned, we just don't have funds, now of course we could go back into debt, take a punt, but the Scottish game has no money, so its basically down the drain. County will have 100 supporters tonight, that's hardly going to help any team is it. Our game right now is in the shadows, I reckon QOS will come up and then next season, again, the money and attendances will be in Championship, we can have opinions, I am sure Man City Supporters are unhappy to

[eastlandssaint]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_cities_in_Scotland_by_population

[Dibbles old paperboy]

It's interesting that Tom English waited until after we got horsed 5-0 by Motherwell and fell 10 points behind 11th place with a handful of games left before sharing his wisdom on all things St Mirren. Where was his voice of knowledge in December and January after we had punted Tommy Craig and had Gary Teale in temporary charge of the squad and when initially things were improving and we had climbed above Ross County and Motherwell? Not a cheep out of Tom English at that point in the season.

Post League Cup win I have no doubt that Tom English was saluting both Danny Lennon and Stewart Gilmour and congratulating the club on being well run, living within our means, investing in a new stadium, training ground, wiping out bank debt and rearing more and more of our first team from our youth development programme.

Had we beaten Motherwell a week ago you have to wonder whether he would have penned an article on their fall from 2nd last year to relegation contenders this year.

I thought it was harsh to label Gus McPherson and Danny Lennon as failed managers. I'm quite sure that had DL been given a new deal he would have learned from his trials last year and may well have called time on Thompson, Goodwin and Teale and bought in new senior players to play alongside our promising younger players. Tom English fails to mention that with almost the same starting XI last year to this year's squad DL managed almost double the points tally we will get this year and had us above Partick Thistle, Kilmarnock, Hibs and Hearts and 1 point behind Ross County instead of miles behind all those teams this season.

[Mykey]

DougJamie, on 10 Apr 2015 - 14:30, said:

Sorry have to disagree with you.

Yes there are quite a number who have a similar opinion to the article, but it doesn't make them nodding dogs.

I have been consistent in my criticism of the Board for some time, it just so happens that the article articulates it better than most posters have on this forum.

Danny Lennon ran out of ideas. He made a number of failures in terms of signings and also his tactics were predictable to the point that teams could come to Paisley, pressure us and walk away with 3 points. His departure was on the cards for some time, and whilst almost everyone said he held his head high with dignity they way it was handled, ultimately his record spoke for itself............ he never moved the side on.

We have a record of getting rid of Managers, even after they win us cups!

The teams you mention are also provincial teams, but they are, or at least the majority of them are staying in the SPL this year. Their budget is similar, their record on signings is much better and they haven't a Board that has wanted out for something like 4 to 5 years.

The problem at Saints is at the top and the sickness that is the apathy at the top, has permeated all the way down to the team, who basically aren't good enough, even if they wanted to 'Play for the jerseys'.

Sorry, I think you are wrong.

nobody would want to play for those fcuking jerseys

[Fresian Coo]

Danny Lennon was ultimately a failure at St Mirren. The League Cup win was obviously meaningless in terms of the league. However, it proved that in season 2012-13 we had a team well capable of a top six slot. In that respect he had better tools to work with than Gus McPherson.

As English points out, in every one of our previous eight top flight seasons we have flirted with relegation. A look at the table at this stage (say after 30-33 games) is a far more accurate reflection of how the team is actually performing that the final league position. Citing an eighth place last season as some kind of achievement is very misleading, especially when you consider that it was very much two divisions comprising the top six and the dross.

The fact that Lennon’s replacements have been disastrous does not make his tenure a success.

[FTOF]

Ross County are in the process of an unbeaten eight game run, with six victories during this period with four victories in a row.

Have we ever even come close to achieving any of the above during our, soon to be ended, tenure in the top league?

IMO it's lack of consistent performances like this, which has blighted our stay in this league and ultimately led to a succession of bottom six finishes.

[DXBBud]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32290324

So, Mr Gilmour thinks that they've made more good decisions than bad, and that much of the criticism has been too personal. Shame. This article and the one by Tom English sum up the recent history of the club's BoD in a nutshell.

[Gruffalo]

Chick Young missed a trick as a journalist and should have asked him to list the good decisions made this season and the bad ones. Re the personal criticism of the board some of it is justified. They are the custodians of the club and are privileged to be in the position they are. Therefore they should be detaching form the emotions of it and running it as a business.

When you continually promote from within to be the manager you actively create a putsch mentality. This year we had 5 insiders vying for the position as manager. That scenario is always going to cause friction in the squad.

Teale was also having a dig at the board when he stated that we had tried to sign other players that for some reason or another were then signed by other Premiership Clubs. Yet again Chick fails to ask him to name names and why they never signed for St Mirren.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Gruffalo

[Stu]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32290324

So, Mr Gilmour thinks that they've made more good decisions than bad, and that much of the criticism has been too personal. Shame. This article and the one by Tom English sum up the recent history of the club's BoD in a nutshell.

"Gary's been appointed to the end of the season and, until we know where we are, that's that.

"A lot of decisions will not be made until the position is clear cut and some of them won't be easy."

Think you can start making decisions.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Stu

[saintnextlifetime]

Ross County are in the process of an unbeaten eight game run, with six victories during this period with four victories in a row.

Have we ever even come close to achieving any of the above during our, soon to be ended, tenure in the top league?

IMO it's lack of consistent performances like this, which has blighted our stay in this league and ultimately led to a succession of bottom six finishes.

TBF , I feel the Club has been inconsistent for as long as I can remember , a long time . Sometimes the inconsistency is favourable , e.g we get humped by 9 men from one OF club and then beat the other cheek of the same arse , 4-zip. .

What I can't comprehend is how the likes of ICT and Cunty manage to achieve what they do with players who are effectively squad players . .

We are in this position now because the necessary steps were not taken by those with a vested interest in the Club to protect their investment . .

[windae cleaner]

"Gary's been appointed to the end of the season and, until we know where we are, that's that.

"A lot of decisions will not be made until the position is clear cut and some of them won't be easy."

Think you can start making decisions.

I think our position is now clear cut

[Edinbuddie]

As the BoD are all St Mirren fans, I'm not sure why Mr Gilmour can't understand all the 'negativity' surrounding the club at the moment. I tend to agree with his point that, over their tenure they've made far more good decisions than bad, but this season has been such an unmitigated shambles that, as fans as well as directors, the BoD should perfectly understand the level of anger and confusion amongst the fans.

I wasn't at this year's AGM or the Q&A earlier in the season, but hearing reports of fans being described as 'knickwetters' and 'keyboard warriors' when legitimate concerns were being raised about the early season performances, don't seem so clever at the end of such a terrible season. And don't help create a sense of togetherness between the club and fans. I've always had the impression of the BoD members being straight talking, 'tell it as they see it' guys who maybe lack (or don't see the point in adopting) the 'softer touch' when it comes to communicating with fans and understanding our concerns.

The next big test is where we go from here. On Radio Scotland last night, Vanzy said that there was a staleness at the club last season and that he thought it was right that Danny's contract wasn't renewed. He was suprised that TC was offered the job as that meant that there was no change. Did the BoD not have a sense of that staleness before they decided to offer TC the job? Do the BoD keep in touch with staff with all levels at the club? I don't know the answers to those questions, but I think the answer should be 'yes' to both questions. The next managerial appointment will be extremely telling in terms of the future direction of the club.

[Sonny]

Personally, and I may be in a minority of 1, I have a load of sympathy for the BoD.

When the Club was about to go under they re-mortgaged their houses and bought shares to keep the Club afloat. They had to buy extra shares as the promises to buying shares with a new Share Issue did not materialise. This had a huge impact on their personal lives. They did it because they were fans who were prepared to step up to the mark. I do not know many fans who would re-mortgage their house and go through broken relationships for the Club.

Their plan was only 10 years to make the Club stable; sort out the Stadium situation and reduce debt. Then they wanted out. They spectacularly achieved their goals. The next step of wanting out they have been unable to achieve as no credible buyer has come forward yet. They do not want to be there yet they do not want the Club in the wrong hands. What are they to do?

They admitted they made a mistake with TC. No BoD has ever got all their appointments correct. They were in a corner as SG stated last night there has been 3 recent serious attempts to buy the Club and each one failed. Any new consortium would have wanted to bring in their own Manager.

Maybe they have taken their eye off the ball. Maybe they have made mistakes. However it is far harder to step up to the plate than just whine about the situation.

These guys have invested a lot of their personal money in the Club and never taken a penny out of it. They want out but no-one is offering a deal that suits them and the future of the Club.

I know emotions are running high but they do not deserve personal abuse. Criticism is justified in some areas but without these guys there would be no St Mirren. Lets spare a thought for the fans of TTFKAR, Hearts, Livi, Gretna, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk who all had BoDs that led them to disaster. Our BoD have tried their best and always put the Club before themselves. They deserve a little break.

[billyg]

Personally, and I may be in a minority of 1, I have a load of sympathy for the BoD.

When the Club was about to go under they re-mortgaged their houses and bought shares to keep the Club afloat. They had to buy extra shares as the promises to buying shares with a new Share Issue did not materialise. This had a huge impact on their personal lives. They did it because they were fans who were prepared to step up to the mark. I do not know many fans who would re-mortgage their house and go through broken relationships for the Club.

Their plan was only 10 years to make the Club stable; sort out the Stadium situation and reduce debt. Then they wanted out. They spectacularly achieved their goals. The next step of wanting out they have been unable to achieve as no credible buyer has come forward yet. They do not want to be there yet they do not want the Club in the wrong hands. What are they to do?

They admitted they made a mistake with TC. No BoD has ever got all their appointments correct. They were in a corner as SG stated last night there has been 3 recent serious attempts to buy the Club and each one failed. Any new consortium would have wanted to bring in their own Manager.

Maybe they have taken their eye off the ball. Maybe they have made mistakes. However it is far harder to step up to the plate than just whine about the situation.

These guys have invested a lot of their personal money in the Club and never taken a penny out of it. They want out but no-one is offering a deal that suits them and the future of the Club.

I know emotions are running high but they do not deserve personal abuse. Criticism is justified in some areas but without these guys there would be no St Mirren. Lets spare a thought for the fans of TTFKAR, Hearts, Livi, Gretna, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk who all had BoDs that led them to disaster. Our BoD have tried their best and always put the Club before themselves. They deserve a little break.

Doesn't wash any more ! A lot of the above is hearsay and BOD propaganda , only they know how much they've made out of the club and whether we really did need to move from LS !

[TopCat]

Personally, and I may be in a minority of 1, I have a load of sympathy for the BoD.

When the Club was about to go under they re-mortgaged their houses and bought shares to keep the Club afloat. They had to buy extra shares as the promises to buying shares with a new Share Issue did not materialise. This had a huge impact on their personal lives. They did it because they were fans who were prepared to step up to the mark. I do not know many fans who would re-mortgage their house and go through broken relationships for the Club.

Their plan was only 10 years to make the Club stable; sort out the Stadium situation and reduce debt. Then they wanted out. They spectacularly achieved their goals. The next step of wanting out they have been unable to achieve as no credible buyer has come forward yet. They do not want to be there yet they do not want the Club in the wrong hands. What are they to do?

They admitted they made a mistake with TC. No BoD has ever got all their appointments correct. They were in a corner as SG stated last night there has been 3 recent serious attempts to buy the Club and each one failed. Any new consortium would have wanted to bring in their own Manager.

Maybe they have taken their eye off the ball. Maybe they have made mistakes. However it is far harder to step up to the plate than just whine about the situation.

These guys have invested a lot of their personal money in the Club and never taken a penny out of it. They want out but no-one is offering a deal that suits them and the future of the Club.

I know emotions are running high but they do not deserve personal abuse. Criticism is justified in some areas but without these guys there would be no St Mirren. Lets spare a thought for the fans of TTFKAR, Hearts, Livi, Gretna, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk who all had BoDs that led them to disaster. Our BoD have tried their best and always put the Club before themselves. They deserve a little break.

Spot on. Can't believe some fans think personal abuse of any kind is justified. You can criticise their decision making (which is justified) without resorting to personal abuse.

[billyg]

Spot on. Can't believe some fans think personal abuse of any kind is justified.

Yeah , Gilmour referring to loyal supporters as " Knickerwetters" and "keyboard warriors" was a shocker !

[Edinbuddie]

Personally, and I may be in a minority of 1, I have a load of sympathy for the BoD.

When the Club was about to go under they re-mortgaged their houses and bought shares to keep the Club afloat. They had to buy extra shares as the promises to buying shares with a new Share Issue did not materialise. This had a huge impact on their personal lives. They did it because they were fans who were prepared to step up to the mark. I do not know many fans who would re-mortgage their house and go through broken relationships for the Club.

Their plan was only 10 years to make the Club stable; sort out the Stadium situation and reduce debt. Then they wanted out. They spectacularly achieved their goals. The next step of wanting out they have been unable to achieve as no credible buyer has come forward yet. They do not want to be there yet they do not want the Club in the wrong hands. What are they to do?

They admitted they made a mistake with TC. No BoD has ever got all their appointments correct. They were in a corner as SG stated last night there has been 3 recent serious attempts to buy the Club and each one failed. Any new consortium would have wanted to bring in their own Manager.

Maybe they have taken their eye off the ball. Maybe they have made mistakes. However it is far harder to step up to the plate than just whine about the situation.

These guys have invested a lot of their personal money in the Club and never taken a penny out of it. They want out but no-one is offering a deal that suits them and the future of the Club.

I know emotions are running high but they do not deserve personal abuse. Criticism is justified in some areas but without these guys there would be no St Mirren. Lets spare a thought for the fans of TTFKAR, Hearts, Livi, Gretna, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk who all had BoDs that led them to disaster. Our BoD have tried their best and always put the Club before themselves. They deserve a little break.

All fans do this as well, within the limits for what is affordable for their own budgets. None of us look for anything from the club, as fans, everything we contribute is for our love of the club.

I know what they've done in terms of money and risk is on a far bigger scale, but, in turn, they get the opportunity to make all the decisions regarding the club's future.

Personal abuse is never appropriate, and SG sounded like a man under a fair amount of pressure last night on the radio. However, despite all the good work this BoD has done over the years, there are legitimate questions to be asked re the appointment of TC, then GT, the selling of McLean and successive seasons where our player recruitment policy has been nothing short of shambolic, and has cost the club a hell of a lot of money. Money that could've been used to bring in an ambitious management team, better quality players and create a team looking upwards rather than scrambling around at the bottom of the league and ultimately ending up in the Championship.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Edinbuddie

[Gruffalo]

They admitted they made a mistake with TC. No BoD has ever got all their appointments correct. They were in a corner as SG stated last night there has been 3 recent serious attempts to buy the Club and each one failed. Any new consortium would have wanted to bring in their own Manager.

Maybe they have taken their eye off the ball. Maybe they have made mistakes. However it is far harder to step up to the plate than just whine about the situation.

There lies the problem. The selling of the club is for the benefit of the selling consortium not the club. The club makes no money from the sale. It is for the board to run and manage the club for the benefit of the club while they are in charge. (these are their legal duties )

To not think about the club when appointing a manager and suggest that decisions were made in case they sold the club is not a Board that was thinking in the interest of the club when they made their decisions.

I respect the Board for the sacrifice that they made in 1998. However that was nearly 20 years ago.

[Buddie Marvelous]

Personally, and I may be in a minority of 1, I have a load of sympathy for the BoD.

When the Club was about to go under they re-mortgaged their houses and bought shares to keep the Club afloat. They had to buy extra shares as the promises to buying shares with a new Share Issue did not materialise. This had a huge impact on their personal lives. They did it because they were fans who were prepared to step up to the mark. I do not know many fans who would re-mortgage their house and go through broken relationships for the Club.

Their plan was only 10 years to make the Club stable; sort out the Stadium situation and reduce debt. Then they wanted out. They spectacularly achieved their goals. The next step of wanting out they have been unable to achieve as no credible buyer has come forward yet. They do not want to be there yet they do not want the Club in the wrong hands. What are they to do?

They admitted they made a mistake with TC. No BoD has ever got all their appointments correct. They were in a corner as SG stated last night there has been 3 recent serious attempts to buy the Club and each one failed. Any new consortium would have wanted to bring in their own Manager.

Maybe they have taken their eye off the ball. Maybe they have made mistakes. However it is far harder to step up to the plate than just whine about the situation.

These guys have invested a lot of their personal money in the Club and never taken a penny out of it. They want out but no-one is offering a deal that suits them and the future of the Club.

I know emotions are running high but they do not deserve personal abuse. Criticism is justified in some areas but without these guys there would be no St Mirren. Lets spare a thought for the fans of TTFKAR, Hearts, Livi, Gretna, Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk who all had BoDs that led them to disaster. Our BoD have tried their best and always put the Club before themselves. They deserve a little break.

No, seems you're in the minority of 4 !

[uhura]

Giving Tommy Craig the job was a mistake. Giving him a two year contract was stupidity.

[David Mc]

Appointing two assistants without any managerial experience on two year contracts was not so clever either.

[TsuMirren]

They admitted they made a mistake with TC. No BoD has ever got all their appointments correct. They were in a corner as SG stated last night there has been 3 recent serious attempts to buy the Club and each one failed. Any new consortium would have wanted to bring in their own Manager.

They didn't admit it at the AGM, no they backed him then launched off at the fans. In a corner??? I believe one bid failed due to leaks, underhand tactics and showing another group around...all my view from evidence in the public domain. If they were in a corner, why give the new management team two year deals? Hmmm, the new guys may want their own man...I know, we'll put them on longer deals so as to create further cost implications. Utterly shambolic f**kwittery of the heighest order.

I know they've taken risks, but why the hell would they then jeopardise it all? Tommy Craig...seriously. For all the money Lennon wasted, at least he was trying.

Oh and could all this have a pop at the fans nonsense have not waited until after they've engaged with them to sell the club! Not to mention "there'd be no club without us", put the ego away.