John Mcginn Tweet

[mad saint 2]

i would take development cash for john and use it on

1/2 decent manager and some new players who are hungary

and use us as a stepping stone not as an easy pay day ,

then get a payoff ,then sign for some one else.

bring back basic wage plus decent win bonus then they might give a dam

[Dibbles old paperboy]

As I've said on other threads, I think McGinn will be here next season.

The development fee would be at least 300k. He's been at us since he was 8 and is currently the captain of the Scotland u21 team.

I simply can't see any other club willing to pay that much money for a player who's been so poor this season.

And from his point of view, he should take a look at Kenny McLean. Sign a new deal, get your head down and work hard and play. You will then get the move.

Dundee were delighted to sign McGowan after a poor season by his standards and all the publicity about narrowly avoiding a prison sentence for police assault. They got McGowan for free but I would not be surprised in the slightest if they took McGinn, quibbled over the fee / compensation and ended up getting McGinn for less than DUFC ended up having to pay for someone who never played for Rangers first team! Dundee may well think if they can sign the Scotland U21 captain for £200-300K on a deal for 3 seasons and he does well and they stay top 6 that they may make a profit on selling him on to a bigger club at some point in the next 2 seasons?

Aberdeen and Hearts are now debt free for the first time in decades, Dundee United have shed most of their debt as well and at some point money in the SPL will increase if Rangers return at some point in the next few seasons as well as Hearts returning next season and Hibs soon after. I can see Aberdeen, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, and Dundee United all becoming clubs who will shell out modest transfer / compensation fees for the right prospects.

[Drew]

In fairness the quotes are almost certainly from the post-match press stuff on Monday. It's pretty much a requirement for someone from each team to go up.

Fair enough.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Dundee were delighted to sign McGowan after a poor season by his standards and all the publicity about narrowly avoiding a prison sentence for police assault. They got McGowan for free but I would not be surprised in the slightest if they took McGinn, quibbled over the fee / compensation and ended up getting McGinn for less than DUFC ended up having to pay for someone who never played for Rangers first team! Dundee may well think if they can sign the Scotland U21 captain for £200-300K on a deal for 3 seasons and he does well and they stay top 6 that they may make a profit on selling him on to a bigger club at some point in the next 2 seasons?

Aberdeen and Hearts are now debt free for the first time in decades, Dundee United have shed most of their debt as well and at some point money in the SPL will increase if Rangers return at some point in the next few seasons as well as Hearts returning next season and Hibs soon after. I can see Aberdeen, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, and Dundee United all becoming clubs who will shell out modest transfer / compensation fees for the right prospects.

agree with topcoat regarding his performance this season which has been poor. However McGinn seems to think he will get a gig down South. He said as much in the press a few weeks ago.

[pod]

Bit late for McGinn to pick things up for last 5 games. Damage is done and we have no chance of staying up.

Think he is only looking after his own interest.

[TopCat]

Dundee were delighted to sign McGowan after a poor season by his standards and all the publicity about narrowly avoiding a prison sentence for police assault. They got McGowan for free but I would not be surprised in the slightest if they took McGinn, quibbled over the fee / compensation and ended up getting McGinn for less than DUFC ended up having to pay for someone who never played for Rangers first team! Dundee may well think if they can sign the Scotland U21 captain for £200-300K on a deal for 3 seasons and he does well and they stay top 6 that they may make a profit on selling him on to a bigger club at some point in the next 2 seasons?

Aberdeen and Hearts are now debt free for the first time in decades, Dundee United have shed most of their debt as well and at some point money in the SPL will increase if Rangers return at some point in the next few seasons as well as Hearts returning next season and Hibs soon after. I can see Aberdeen, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, and Dundee United all becoming clubs who will shell out modest transfer / compensation fees for the right prospects.

Have a look at Dundee's accounts. They're operating at a large loss, again.

If they are going to start paying that kind of money for any player, they will be going back into administration for the third time. Maybe they are going to take that journey, wouldn't surprise me really. As long as we demand any fee from them upfront and in full.

If any club were going to start throwing that kind of money about in the summer I'd say there's players who are far more worthy of that kind of fee than McGinn.

It's not really comparable to picking Gowser off the scrapheap for nothing after we had punted him.

[slapsalmon]

Am I right in saying were only due compensation if we offer him a contract of equal or more money to a player? If that's the case will we do that as a first division club running the risk t&at he takes it and no one pays?

[Sergie's no1 fan]

Am I right in saying were only due compensation if we offer him a contract of equal or more money to a player? If that's the case will we do that as a first division club running the risk t&at he takes it and no one pays?

We have offered him a contract I'm sure, months ago. it will surely have had a relegation clause in it? Same with Naismith's and Kelly's?

It is a crazy rule/law though.

I can see John waiting throughout the summer for a offer, teams will be put off by the development fee forcing him to sign for us then we give him away for pennies in the next January transfer window

[Rabinho]

We have offered him a contract I'm sure, months ago. it will surely have had a relegation clause in it? Same with Naismith's and Kelly's?

It is a crazy rule/law though.

I can see John waiting throughout the summer for a offer, teams will be put off by the development fee forcing him to sign for us then we give him away for pennies in the next January transfer window

Sounds depressingly familiar, although I have to agree I can see another McLean scenario arising.

[TopCat]

He won't be on much, he signed his current contract just after he broke into the first team in 2012. Will be on similar money to Mallan, Naismith and Kelly I would guess.

I'm sure we could afford to offer him the same again, particularly if the alternative is losing him for nothing.

[Ditto]

The problem with McGInn is one that you see so often in football these days up and down the UK.

There has been so much talk about McGinn being one of Scotland's bright young stars, McAllister himself made exactly those comments the other night yet even. But the reality is, is he is a rank average young player that has got into some really bad habits on the pitch. But because the press and TV single him out to be a special talent he now believes it himself and it shows in his play.

McGinn is nothing more than a good hustle and bustle ball winner, don't get me wrong, there are some very good players out there earning a very good wage in top flight football & Internationally doing just that. The difference is however, that those other players recognise their abilities and shortcomings and just concentrate and play to what they do best. McGinn meanwhile thinks he is Maradona and it's this that the coaches should be working with to correct and get rid of from his game.

John McGInn without doubt works hard on a football pitch, he runs all day, he is tough and is not scared to get stuck in, however his first touch in control is poor at best, his awareness of others around him is shocking and his distribution is very poor - his decision making is also very, very poor!

​As I once heard a coach at a top professional club say to a young player once when he was just 16 applies to John here today at 20 - when you break up play and win the ball and lay it off short John you are a fantastic player, but when you break up play and win the ball and then try to hit a glorious 60 yd pass or run with it your a horrible! player

How many times have I seen John McGinn break down the opposition and you think well done, but then see him give it straight back to them or where his touch lets him down and the ball bounces off his foot and runs a few feet away from him, its not pretty to watch. The worst is where he has a simple 10 - 15 yard lay off out wide but will then for no reason turn and either loose the ball or worse still, turn and hit an aimless 60 yrs cross field ball that the opposition pick off time and time again.

If I were advising John McGinn, I would tell him, drop down into the Championship with St Mirren for next season and work on the areas of your game (that I have alluded to above) that need a lot of work and aim to get St Mirren back up into the SPFL and use that to improve your game and earn that big money move or better still stay with St Mirren and be the engine room of a good young team.

I would have John McGinn watching videos of Mascherano at Barcelona all summer.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Ditto

[Drew]

John's greatest weakness is overplaying. I agree that his decision-making is often poor, but I also think the poor quality around him leaves him with few options, so sometimes he feels he has to overplay it. The same could have been said of McLean to a lesser degree, and perhaps McGowan also. He should know where his team-mates are likely to be, and they should know where he is likely to play the ball. It seems basic stuff to me.

I think there is a fundamental issue with our training and I mentioned it after the Motherwell debacle last week. The players seem to lack any genuine awareness as to where their team-mates are, and they invariably just hit the ball in hope as opposed to with any clear design. You'd think they had just met one another. You see this kind of thing when a shower of over-weight middle-aged men meet to play fives once a week. These guys don't really know each other in the context of a team game, and that is entirely understandable and forgiveable. Not so a F/T professional football team.

I'd blind fold them and ask them to make passes to one another until they gain an understanding of shape and formation (alternatively, I'd suggest they take a walk on Gourock pier....).

Edited April 16, 2015 by Drew

[Ditto]

John's greatest weakness is overplaying. I agree that his decision-making is often poor, but I also think the poor quality around him leaves him with few options, so sometimes he feels he has to overplay it. The same could have been said of McLean to a lesser degree, and perhaps McGowan also. He should know where his team-mates are likely to be, and they should know where he is likely to play the ball. It seems basic stuff to me.

I think there is a fundamental issue with our training and I mentioned it after the Motherwell debacle last week. The players seem to lack any genuine awareness as to where their team-mates are, and they invariably just hit the ball in hope as opposed to with any clear design. You'd think they had just met one another. You see this kind of thing when a shower of over-weight middle-aged men meet to play fives once a week. These guys don't really know each other in the context of a team game, and that is entirely understandable and forgiveable. Not so a F/T professional football team.

I'd blind fold them and ask them to make passes to one another until they gain an understanding of shape and formation (alternatively, I'd suggest they take a walk on Gourock pier....).

There is s saying in football coaching which is "trust." Players need to trust the players around them, watch top flight football in the English Premier league, they trust each other so don't hesitate in making a pass, they form a picture of whats on before receiving the ball and make the pass based on that picture. John McGinn does not even do the basics and check his shoulder before receiving the ball and turns and runs into a player like a brick wall. A sign of a good player is making it look easy and that he has plenty of time, McGinn looks slow in his decision making and half of that is down to the fact that he is looking down at the ground the whole time when on the ball.

I don't subscribe to it being down to "poor quality around him," McGinn himself is a major part of the problem, at the moment and will be until he wises up and plays to his strengths and trust others around him. Its not his job to judge whether he is going to pass to a player or not, he must make the pass and if the receiving player is not up to it then they will get found out and they will be off.

[irvine_buddie]

The problem with McGInn is one that you see so often in football these days up and down the UK.

There has been so much talk about McGinn being one of Scotland's bright young stars, McAllister himself made exactly those comments the other night yet even. But the reality is, is he is a rank average young player that has got into some really bad habits on the pitch. But because the press and TV single him out to be a special talent he now believes it himself and it shows in his play.

McGinn is nothing more than a good hustle and bustle ball winner, don't get me wrong, there are some very good players out there earning a very good wage in top flight football & Internationally doing just that. The difference is however, that those other players recognise their abilities and shortcomings and just concentrate and play to what they do best. McGinn meanwhile thinks he is Maradona and it's this that the coaches should be working with to correct and get rid of from his game.

John McGInn without doubt works hard on a football pitch, he runs all day, he is tough and is not scared to get stuck in, however his first touch in control is poor at best, his awareness of others around him is shocking and his distribution is very poor - his decision making is also very, very poor!

​As I once heard a coach at a top professional club say to a young player once when he was just 16 applies to John here today at 20 - when you break up play and win the ball and lay it off short John you are a fantastic player, but when you break up play and win the ball and then try to hit a glorious 60 yd pass or run with it your a horrible! player

How many times have I seen John McGinn break down the opposition and you think well done, but then see him give it straight back to them or where his touch lets him down and the ball bounces off his foot and runs a few feet away from him, its not pretty to watch. The worst is where he has a simple 10 - 15 yard lay off out wide but will then for no reason turn and either loose the ball or worse still, turn and hit an aimless 60 yrs cross field ball that the opposition pick off time and time again.

If I were advising John McGinn, I would tell him, drop down into the Championship with St Mirren for next season and work on the areas of your game (that I have alluded to above) that need a lot of work and aim to get St Mirren back up into the SPFL and use that to improve your game and earn that big money move or better still stay with St Mirren and be the engine room of a good young team.

I would have John McGinn watching videos of Mascherano at Barcelona all summer.

Great post, agree with all of this. Pundits for the last couple of years have been hailing McGinn as a great player but they only see highlight reels on Sportscene or the odd TV game, it’s just lazy journalism. The main reason he was regarded as a player with great potential (and rightly so) was that he broke into the team at 18 and was great at getting stuck in, working hard and was clearly very skilful. However, he hasn’t really developed much in the last 2 seasons.

As you said, his first touch is very poor, he’ll often perform a nice bit of skill to keep the ball from the defender or do his trademark back to the defender move to protect the ball.. but he only has to do that because he’s taken a bad first touch or made the wrong decision when to pass/shoot etc. He has no goals this year and no assists off the top of my head either, that is down to poor decision making in the final third (not just him but the whole team to be fair).

Hopefully he’ll stay and the drop in level will give him the chance to improve his game. Either that or he’ll leave and a decent coach at another club will iron out his game and he’ll end up going down south for millions.

[nosferatu]

The problem with player development is that young players all mature and come of age at different times and some that appear to be a class above everyone at a young age sometimes fade away to be very average whilst those that seem average at a young age find their feet and mature into good players - what is an excellent young 16 Yr old might be a very average 20 Yr old because the stop listening, learning and developing because they think they have made it. Others keep their head down, listen, work hard and develop into something useful.

Thats why the Youth Development systems on the continent are better suited to bringing through talent, a Youth player in Holland for example knows what his future is as its all mapped out for him until he is about 20 and at that point if he is still there at that age he knows exactly when he will be introduced to the 1st team squad setup. He is well coached and mentored and all that pressure of whether he will be there next year is taken away right up to he is 20.

In England & Scotland its very different, its almost a year to year existence from the age of 8 to 16 at which point you get a scholarship if deemed good enough, and from there you have two years to earn a professional contract and force your way into the first team.

We make it so difficult for young players to come through across the UK, why?

Not sure I agree with this.

I have no idea whether this is indeed the continental system or not but I would have thought that a player getting into a youth system at, say age 8 and then being guaranteed his place until he is 20 would be a bit of a disincentive. A year by year system would seem to me to actually have quite a lot of incentive about it.

In addition, keeping a whole host of players on until aged 20, regardless of whether a club has changed their mind about them or not, would possibly deprive spaces to later developers.

IMO, one of the great problems with football in Scotland is that so many youngsters have no work ethic, don't look after their bodies and succumb to drink and drugs.

A country such as Holland also has the advantage of a large immigrant population where the boys are physically bigger and stronger AND have a desire to work hard.

[JM1]

McGinn probably doesn't trust the players around him because they're all shite.

[Ditto]

McGinn probably doesn't trust the players around him because they're all shite.

Thanks for your input, don't rush to given us more of your insight you clown!

[JM1]

Thanks for your input, don't rush to given us more of your insight you clown!

[Ally]

John McGinn and Kenny McLean played for Scotland u21s against the Dutch earlier in the season or at the back end end of last season. They were completely played off the park, particularly in the midfield area. It was frightening how much better technically the Dutch were to our boys, so when you talk about McGinn being a great prospect it's very much relative to the scottish game...

Incidentally, Kenny's got much more ability than John.

[TopCat]

John McGinn and Kenny McLean played for Scotland u21s against the Dutch earlier in the season or at the back end end of last season. They were completely played off the park, particularly in the midfield area. It was frightening how much better technically the Dutch were to our boys, so when you talk about McGinn being a great prospect it's very much relative to the scottish game...

Incidentally, Kenny's got much more ability than John.

Indeed. In the Dutch team that night there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real at the very top of the world game.

In the Scotland team there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Sheffield United, Derby County and Rotheram in the English second and third tiers, and I very much include McGinn and McLean in that category. No wonder they got horsed.

For whatever reason Scotland is incapable of producing world class players and has been for a while. Infact I think the last world class player to come from this country came from St Mirren, and that was Paul Lambert who came through our ranks nearly 30 years ago.

[Ditto]

Indeed. In the Dutch team that night there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real at the very top of the world game.

In the Scotland team there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Sheffield United, Derby County and Rotheram in the English second and third tiers, and I very much include McGinn and McLean in that category. No wonder they got horsed.

For whatever reason Scotland is incapable of producing world class players and has been for a while. Infact I think the last world class player to come from this country came from St Mirren, and that was Paul Lambert who came through our ranks nearly 30 years ago.

I am not Scottish but have always had a healthy respect for players and managers from Scotland.

Interestingly, the old English Div One & the now English Premiership has attracted a lot of Scottish managers who were once players over the years that have done well:

Ferguson

Moyle

Dalglish

Coyle

McLeish

Lambert

Graham

Rioch

Souness

Strachan

Mackay

Smith

McGhee

Jordan - Asst Mgr

Sbragia - Asst Mgr

Burrows

Clarke

Irvine

Gray

Davies

Porterfeild

Hutchings

Kean - ??

Black

McCallister

MacDonald - Asst Mgr

Houston

Busby

Shankly

Stein

McCoist

Edited April 16, 2015 by Ditto

[nosferatu]

Indeed. In the Dutch team that night there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real at the very top of the world game.

In the Scotland team there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Sheffield United, Derby County and Rotheram in the English second and third tiers, and I very much include McGinn and McLean in that category. No wonder they got horsed.

For whatever reason Scotland is incapable of producing world class players and has been for a while. Infact I think the last world class player to come from this country came from St Mirren, and that was Paul Lambert who came through our ranks nearly 30 years ago.

Darren Fletcher was world class in his hey day surely?

[TopCat]

Darren Fletcher was world class in his hey day surely?

He'd be the only one you could argue, but he wasn't really produced in Scotland as he never played a senior game here.

[linwood buddie]

Indeed. In the Dutch team that night there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Barca, Bayern and Real at the very top of the world game.

In the Scotland team there were players who will go on to play for the likes of Sheffield United, Derby County and Rotheram in the English second and third tiers, and I very much include McGinn and McLean in that category. No wonder they got horsed.

For whatever reason Scotland is incapable of producing world class players and has been for a while. Infact I think the last world class player to come from this country came from St Mirren, and that was Paul Lambert who came through our ranks nearly 30 years ago.

Agree with that but I think Iain Durrant would have been there to if it wasn't for injury.

[donport]

I agree John is not the finished article ,however when no pundits were talking about him 2 years ago people were up in arms now because he is left in a team of no hopers he is being slated along with the pundits who are saying is a fair talent???