Drew Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 We got relegated by a distance this season. That's much worse than Murray's worst ever season as a manager! There either is talent in the Dumbarton youth ranks, or there is not. I suspect strongly that there were no players good enough to step up from their youth set-up, given it's a small part-time club punching way above its weight. At St Mirren, there are young players good enough for the Championship - let's see what he does with them. He seems to have an eye for signing promising kids on loan from other clubs. That, in itself, has to be encouraging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Calder Saint Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 StuartD.Please enlighten me I do not believe Sons have a Youth Acadamy or run a reserve team.Moreover they only train two nights per week and are totally part time.So how was he in a position to promote youth.Time for everyone who is a Buddie to get behind the team.COYS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Joined Dumbarton in November 2012. I think it's fair to judge him over his squads from the last two seasons only as they were all his players. He's definitely not a coach who will progress youngsters through the club and even with experienced players in his squad he's proved to be poor at organising them defensively and making Dumbarton a difficult team to beat. I'll stick with my verdict. The appointment is uninspiring, poor, even bizarre given all the talk about youth development being the way forward. Oh and aye Ferguson was judged by St Mirren on his first managerial appointment. Willie Cunningham recommended him to Willie Todd having seen him in action at East Stirling. I reckon you're in a much better position to gauge all this than the various Dumbarton fans who are, almost to a man, sorry to see him go. Claiming he's 'definitely not a coach who will progress youngsters through the club' is, by any measure, a completely bullshit statement. How can you say this is definitely the case? Anyway, I think this appointment is a step in the right direction. However, there is a huge amount of hard work to be done this summer to ensure Murray has the best possible chance to mount a promotion challenge next season. We should be aiming for the playoffs at least. That's not to say I expect to get there, but I want to see a squad that will at least have the ability to push for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Who was your choice for the gig StuD? I posted a name on the thread earlier. My intention was to add the name of someone who hadn't previously been mentioned and someone who had a track record of success with youth development. I named Gardner Speirs. I'd also mentioned Pat Kenny as a manager who continues to be extremely successful in Ireland. I could have understood appointments like Adams or Reid. I don't think they would have had me rushing out for a season ticket but I would have understood that the club were trying to make an appointment that would put the club in the promotion mix. With Murray I honestly can't see what the intention is though. He's not been successful in any way at all and he's not got a record of youth development. He doesn't even have a great record as a coach throughout the Scottish game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) . Edited May 22, 2015 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) I posted a name on the thread earlier. My intention was to add the name of someone who hadn't previously been mentioned and someone who had a track record of success with youth development. I named Gardner Speirs. I'd also mentioned Pat Kenny as a manager who continues to be extremely successful in Ireland. I could have understood appointments like Adams or Reid. I don't think they would have had me rushing out for a season ticket but I would have understood that the club were trying to make an appointment that would put the club in the promotion mix. With Murray I honestly can't see what the intention is though. He's not been successful in any way at all and he's not got a record of youth development. He doesn't even have a great record as a coach throughout the Scottish game. Didn't see your named choice, and pretty sure holes could be picked in any hypothetical appointment of Gardner Spiers or an unknown-to-most guy coming in from Ireland. Could pick holes in any appointment. We simply aren't going to see Jose Mourinho or Pep Guardiola in the frame for the St Mirren job.Murray got it. He deserves a chance - with his new squad. Just as Danny Lennon deserved a chance when he was the new guy, coming into a club he saw as a step up from where we took him from. What Ian Murray does not deserve is to be booted in the stones by internet blowhards before he's even had time to put a knot in his club tie and find his way to the coffee machine at Ralston. Edited May 22, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 StuartD.Please enlighten me I do not believe Sons have a Youth Acadamy or run a reserve team.Moreover they only train two nights per week and are totally part time.So how was he in a position to promote youth.Time for everyone who is a Buddie to get behind the team.COYS. Given what you state above, why was he selected for a job that stipulates he has to have proven experience of working with and promoting youth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 He is 34 ffs. He has had 2 seasons in management and I would bet the Dumbarton Board had one key aim, keep them in the Championship. He has achieved that. Eddie Howe at Bournemouth had no track record and look what he did at that club. McIntyre had no track record but kept RC up. Eddie Howe had an excellent track record in his first stint for bournemouth, McIntyre had an excellent record at QoS which included cup finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 We got relegated by a distance this season. That's much worse than Murray's worst ever season as a manager! There either is talent in the Dumbarton youth ranks, or there is not. I suspect strongly that there were no players good enough to step up from their youth set-up, given it's a small part-time club punching way above its weight. At St Mirren, there are young players good enough for the Championship - let's see what he does with them. So why has he been appointed to a position where working with youth is key, if he has no experience or track record in that field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 So why has he been appointed to a position where working with youth is key, if he has no experience or track record in that field? I would guess he was appointed because he did well at his interview, knows he won't get, and wouldn't expect, a big budget to spend his way to success, and showed enough with Dumbarton to make our BoD think he's a young manager on the way up, ready for a step up to a full time club. Pure guesswork on my part, but I bet it ain't a million miles from the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Still nothing official. Anyone been to Asda or is it press conference 4pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray7 Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Announcement imminent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I posted a name on the thread earlier. My intention was to add the name of someone who hadn't previously been mentioned and someone who had a track record of success with youth development. I named Gardner Speirs. I'd also mentioned Pat Kenny as a manager who continues to be extremely successful in Ireland. I could have understood appointments like Adams or Reid. I don't think they would have had me rushing out for a season ticket but I would have understood that the club were trying to make an appointment that would put the club in the promotion mix. With Murray I honestly can't see what the intention is though. He's not been successful in any way at all and he's not got a record of youth development. He doesn't even have a great record as a coach throughout the Scottish game. Maybe neither of them applied for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Maybe neither of them applied for the job. WTF happened to Jim Jeffries though? Bloody ex-St Mirren players... Know feck-all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I thought amongst most who comment on here and saints fans in general there was a real desire to not repeat the mistakes of the past in appointing a manager who before taking up the reins a casual observer could see would be out of their depth, destined to fail and frankly let down by those who appointed him, in that it wasn't in the individuals best interest to be given an aim and objectives that their performance to date indicated they would at best struggle, or indeed be unlikely to achieve. He's got the job, he tried for several others unsuccessfully so good luck to him! But why are we yet again doing the same thing and hoping for a different result? Is the clubs real aim to avoid relegation from the championship, if not what is that apparently no one can see, or identify that makes Ian Murray the best man for the job! I will listen, digest anything, anyone can provide that indicates he has what we need. To date the only achievement or performance related measure offered is he didn't get relegated. Maybe i seem unrealistic, out of touch, or missing the big picture but I don't see that measure as an indicator of a manager who is tasked with getting us back up at the first attempt. Help me out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codfish Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Some amount of uneducated bollocks in this thread (and that's ignoring Lord Pityme's rambling). Ian Murray's record at Dumbarton sees him as being their most successful manager in the last 25 years, probably since we last met them on League duty. He's worked on the lowest budget in the Championship by a distance, one which couldn't be bolstered by away crowds due to stadium size (unlike the other part-time sides), and has tried to implement a number of 'full-time' aspects to a part time club. I know a few Sons fans, and while they admit he has limitations, and can be naive tactically, his side from 2013/14 played some of the best football they've seen. Remember they finished 5th, 4 points off the playoffs, and out-scored all but Hamilton (who were boosted by playing Mor10n on the last day). To me, this is the appointment we should've made a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Some amount of uneducated bollocks in this thread (and that's ignoring Lord Pityme's rambling). Ian Murray's record at Dumbarton sees him as being their most successful manager in the last 25 years, probably since we last met them on League duty. He's worked on the lowest budget in the Championship by a distance, one which couldn't be bolstered by away crowds due to stadium size (unlike the other part-time sides), and has tried to implement a number of 'full-time' aspects to a part time club. I know a few Sons fans, and while they admit he has limitations, and can be naive tactically, his side from 2013/14 played some of the best football they've seen. Remember they finished 5th, 4 points off the playoffs, and out-scored all but Hamilton (who were boosted by playing Mor10n on the last day). To me, this is the appointment we should've made a year ago. "Limited" and "tactically naive".... Welcome to The FeegieDome Ian, you have exactly what we look for in a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 He's got the job, he tried for several others unsuccessfully so good luck to him! Proof of this? Aside from the Hibs job last summer, I don't think I've seen his name realistically linked to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 "Limited" and "tactically naive".... Welcome to The FeegieDome Ian, you have exactly what we look for in a manager. Name a gaffer in the past 25 years for St. Mirren who was neither of those things. Yet we've still done OK for ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 http://www.saintmirren.net/pages/?p=43622 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Probably the reason Murray didn't "promote youth" was because the youth players at Dumbarton were rubbish. MacPherson used to get the same shite on here, depite the fact he was only too happy to play youth if they were good enough. Just so happened guys like Sean Burns or whoever were rubbish. I'm sure with most of our best remaining players right now being products of the youth team, Murray isn't planning on punting them all. I think Mallon et all will be regular fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Interesting line about wanting to go on to higher things in football. It's been pointed out before, but it would be nice to see St Mirren NOT being the end of the road for a football manager's career progression. Got to back to the 80s to find a manager who left us for a bigger club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Maybe neither of them applied for the job. True Jake. I suggested them because they weren't in the list of usual names when I thought their record should have put them in the frame. However at the very least any St Mirren fan should have been looking for direction. Reid or Adam would have signalled the board were going to push for top 4 with managers who've done the route before. Whilst the likes of Stark or Frail would have suggested the heavy focus on youth development. This is just another uninspired appointment from a rudderless board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McGarvey' wonky legs Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 "Limited" and "tactically naive".... Welcome to The FeegieDome Ian, you have exactly what we look for in a manager.Don't forget the there is no Plan B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) I thought amongst most who comment on here and saints fans in general there was a real desire to not repeat the mistakes of the past in appointing a manager who before taking up the reins a casual observer could see would be out of their depth, destined to fail and frankly let down by those who appointed him, in that it wasn't in the individuals best interest to be given an aim and objectives that their performance to date indicated they would at best struggle, or indeed be unlikely to achieve. He's got the job, he tried for several others unsuccessfully so good luck to him! But why are we yet again doing the same thing and hoping for a different result? Is the clubs real aim to avoid relegation from the championship, if not what is that apparently no one can see, or identify that makes Ian Murray the best man for the job! I will listen, digest anything, anyone can provide that indicates he has what we need. To date the only achievement or performance related measure offered is he didn't get relegated. Maybe i seem unrealistic, out of touch, or missing the big picture but I don't see that measure as an indicator of a manager who is tasked with getting us back up at the first attempt. Help me out here. Why not take a step back mate and get on with supporting the club and its new manager. We all want success for St Mirren Murray is the manager a ball has not even been kicked. He will rebuild the team at least give him the time to open the door to the office. Edited May 22, 2015 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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