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St. Mirren Looking For A New Manager

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Can someone confirm to me that the game against Thistle after the split took place? I wasn't there so can't say for sure, however I'm fairly sure we lost it. Mysteriously it doesn't seem to appear in the list of games involving teams who had something to play for while didn't.

Teale said we need to get out of this mindset of "We're only St Mirren" and he's right, which is why a manager with such a poor track record has to go. Folk on this thread seem to be rather easily pleased - the sort of people who clap when the pilot lands the plane when you're going on holiday.

Gary Teale and the pilot... at least with the pilot you want him to take you down.

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At the end of the day the new manager no matter who he is will get my full backing that's the bottom line.

Just feel Teale has done what he can , getting rid of player were no use, not getting the players he wanted. Put trust in the players he had who generally did not perform to the standard they could. A manager can only do so much , for Teale to turn the corner in such a short space of time was a big ask.

Then its over we are down and out. So Teale tinkers with the team planning for next season getting results. On that basis he should be considered. If not we move on and pray we get the right man to lead us.

But the thing is the players he did sign have been rotten.

Sadlier has a bit of promise but Arquin more red cards than goals,Gow the same no goals.

Genev disappeared and Snoop dog well is he still here.

We need forwards and going by his record in this department he ain't the man to find them.

The only reason people are saying he should keep the job is cost

Think with all the COST we have wasted the last 2 years with the duff signings and keeping TC who was out of his depth as manager as shown many times before when he was No 1

There's a bigger picture than short term loss

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You guys keep describing these wins as 'meaningless', then start to ascribe meaning to them clap.gif

There are snooker players all over the land who can rattle in 147s in the practice room yet will never do it in a competition. Taking the pressure off does strange things to sports people. And, besides, as I keep on saying, these wins don't concern me. The lack of performance when we had to win is what should worry us all.

Sorry I really don't buy that, a great analogy and one that I understand but just don't think applies here.

Look at the squad and players involved when we played Motherwell & Ross County after a good showing against Celtic and now look at the squad and players involved now plus one or two changes to positions.

Also to clarify, yes meaningless games to us yes but not to the opposition with the exception, as "Stu" states above, of Thistle.

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So why weren't these players used sooner? They've been at the club all along, haven't they? Given our position of relative strength in January, why have we failed to reach the number of points we needed? Where was the urgency and the motivation while it was still in our hands to stay in this league?

People cite Ross County's amazing run as if it came out of nowhere, but some of us fairly accurately predicted how many points we would need in order to stay safe. whistling.gif I started this thread on January 12th, and said we'd need 38 points to stay up (ok, 36 would have done it, but hey-ho):

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/39271-how-much-trouble-we-are-in-some-numbers/

We should have been up and motivated for every single game. Ultimately, that we weren't, falls solely at the door of one man. I'm not talking about winning every match, but looking interested is a bare minimum.

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So why weren't these players used sooner? They've been at the club all along, haven't they? Given our position of relative strength in January, why have we failed to reach the number of points we needed? Where was the urgency and the motivation while it was still in our hands to stay in this league?

People cite Ross County's amazing run as if it came out of nowhere, but some of us fairly accurately predicted how many points we would need in order to stay safe. whistling.gif I started this thread on January 12th, and said we'd need 38 points to stay up (ok, 36 would have done it, but hey-ho):

http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/topic/39271-how-much-trouble-we-are-in-some-numbers/

We should have been up and motivated for every single game. Ultimately, that we weren't, falls solely at the door of one man. I'm not talking about winning every match, but looking interested is a bare minimum.

If I am honest I don't know.

From the outside it looks like he continued to go with the more Senior players because of the situation and occasion rather than go with Youth, feeling quite naturally that throwing very young players could possibly stunt their development.

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Yes we are playing bounce games.

What you spectacularly fail to mention is the following:-

1) We are playing with a team substantially made of exceptionally young players who have just gone through a relegation.

2) We are playing teams who are fighting for their lives whilst our players could have been dreaming about the beach and we've beaten three of them out of the last four.

3) Our players could have responded to relegation in just about the most positive way possible - they've won nearly every subsequent match.

4) We are playing better.

5) Had Motherwell and Ross County not went through a win spurt of Barcelona-esque proportions, chances are we'd still not be relegated yet.

If Gary wins again next week he'll have won 4 from 5.

When that happens at ANY stage of a season you need to appreciate it.

It's hard to explain sacking a manager who MIGHT have turned a corner.

Simply because there's a chance he's turned it around he probably merits a chance next season.

Don't forget he took over when we were already struggling and desperately low in confidence.

Why did he not change it when we still had a chance. Why did he persist with Genev, Goodwin, Arquin etc when we had better in the u20s. He hasn't turned anything around, he discovered purely by chance that we had players better than those he had been picking. He had umpteen games after we beat Thistle when he did nothing. Circumstances dictated picking young lads who have proved they have potential it was no genius on GTs part. Keep GT, keep Gow, keep Goodwin ffs it's very recent diabolical mistakes people want repeated over and over again.

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This is all pretty dull isn't it. No rumours, no Flareybob exclusives. sad.png

Agreed it is, we are all just regurgitating the same rubbish.

Lets face it, we have those that are for keeping GT for a period to see if he can continue to get results using the youth & players we have today together with a bit of added experience and we have those that have understandably had their fill of this season and believe that a new broom will sweep clean.

Personally I would stick with the old broom because we have no guarantee that a new broom is going to gel with the young & existing players and get results out of them.

But what do I know, I am just this sites "resident football expert" apparently!

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i don't think I can forgive the Well & County results, poor selections, poor tactics, and no heart. Also though he now wan'ts credit for bringing in the youth, most of his youth selections were forced on him with Cheesy, Genev & Godwin being unavailable simultaneously. If he was serious about going with youth ahead of next season and to blood them now the pressure is off then why are Tess,Dayton, & gow playing when they are definitely away next week.

I want somebody in that will radically change diets, training regimes and tactics and who will sign 2 or 3 senior players. I'd be just as happy if they came from the lower leagues of the continent even if i'd never heard of them.

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Your losing the plot wee man !

At least he still has some plot left. You lost yours long ago when backing Teale for the managers job and saying that the board can do no wrong.

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i don't think I can forgive the Well & County results, poor selections, poor tactics, and no heart. Also though he now wan'ts credit for bringing in the youth, most of his youth selections were forced on him with Cheesy, Genev & Godwin being unavailable simultaneously. If he was serious about going with youth ahead of next season and to blood them now the pressure is off then why are Tess,Dayton, & gow playing when they are definitely away next week.

I want somebody in that will radically change diets, training regimes and tactics and who will sign 2 or 3 senior players. I'd be just as happy if they came from the lower leagues of the continent even if i'd never heard of them.

Again cannot disagree with that.

Here's my lineup for Hamilton on Saturday:

Kello/Ridgers (Kello if Ridgers is injured still?)

Naismith Baird, Kelly, Tesseller

Dayton Mallan Reilly Morgan

Sadlier

Thompson

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A considered and detailed response Oaky, we may not agree, but it's good constructive debate.

One point of order.... 'It's hard to explain sacking a manager who MIGHT have turned a corner.'

GT would NOT be sacked. His contract as manager runs out after the Hamilton game. Whatever happens, at the end of this season, he will not have a 'sacking' on his CV.

One question if I may. Hypothetically speaking, let's say GT achieved survival for our club after the Killie game, and we had then suffered defeats in the last 4 games of the season. Would it be fair for fans to then say he should NOT be awarded with the managers job? I suspect in this scenario 100% of the St Mirren support would insist the BoD furnished GT with a new contract as Manager, regardless of the 4 poor results.

If we agree that is a reasonable view, would it also be reasonable to judge GT on the results prior to relegation being confirmed, rather than on some positive results post relegation?

Yes it is a reasonable view and yes he'll be judged on that.

You're also right about the fans regarding the previous paragraphs but I'll say it again because it needs repeating - Fans are absolutely clueless about the realities of what it takes to run a football club. They are clueless on tactics, signings and finance. None of that should be debatable. Fans are absolutely and utterly useless when it comes to making proper decisions about the club because they follow their hearts rather than their heads.

As for hiring Gary, I'm more inclined to accept that a rookie manager inheriting a team lacking in confidence will take time to turn things around. Many fans expect an instant tranformation because frankly they are clueless as I explained above.

You might think 5 months is an age but I believe it's not.

I also expected many many mistakes on Gary's part as a result of him being a rookie. Fans pounce on ANY mistake and amplify it as a disaster, a disgrace etc. They do this because.....need I repeat?

HOWEVER.

What I also expect to see is some form of improvement.

Forget relegation. Many fans can't because they can't see beyond the end of their own noses but whatever....forget it for now.

Are we playing better now?

Are we getting results?

The answer to both is undoubtedly yes.

Then the remaining question is simply whether that progress is enough to suggest it will continue next season under Gary or whether it would be better under someone else.

Relegation is irrelevant. Fans MUST stop seeing everything in short terms and start looking at the bigger picture.

5 months is a totally insignificant amount of time to expect a new manager to turn things.

Ross County performed miracles this season but fans are simply ignoring this because....well I'm going round in circles now.

The BOD should and probably will ignore the fans on this.

IMO they are quite correct to do so.

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Yes it is a reasonable view and yes he'll be judged on that.

You're also right about the fans regarding the previous paragraphs but I'll say it again because it needs repeating - Fans are absolutely clueless about the realities of what it takes to run a football club. They are clueless on tactics, signings and finance. None of that should be debatable. Fans are absolutely and utterly useless when it comes to making proper decisions about the club because they follow their hearts rather than their heads.

As for hiring Gary, I'm more inclined to accept that a rookie manager inheriting a team lacking in confidence will take time to turn things around. Many fans expect an instant tranformation because frankly they are clueless as I explained above.

You might think 5 months is an age but I believe it's not.

I also expected many many mistakes on Gary's part as a result of him being a rookie. Fans pounce on ANY mistake and amplify it as a disaster, a disgrace etc. They do this because.....need I repeat?

HOWEVER.

What I also expect to see is some form of improvement.

Forget relegation. Many fans can't because they can't see beyond the end of their own noses but whatever....forget it for now.

Are we playing better now?

Are we getting results?

The answer to both is undoubtedly yes.

Then the remaining question is simply whether that progress is enough to suggest it will continue next season under Gary or whether it would be better under someone else.

Relegation is irrelevant. Fans MUST stop seeing everything in short terms and start looking at the bigger picture.

5 months is a totally insignificant amount of time to expect a new manager to turn things.

Ross County performed miracles this season but fans are simply ignoring this because....well I'm going round in circles now.

The BOD should and probably will ignore the fans on this.

IMO they are quite correct to do so.

Agree on all points.

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Yes it is a reasonable view and yes he'll be judged on that.

You're also right about the fans regarding the previous paragraphs but I'll say it again because it needs repeating - Fans are absolutely clueless about the realities of what it takes to run a football club. They are clueless on tactics, signings and finance. None of that should be debatable. Fans are absolutely and utterly useless when it comes to making proper decisions about the club because they follow their hearts rather than their heads.

As for hiring Gary, I'm more inclined to accept that a rookie manager inheriting a team lacking in confidence will take time to turn things around. Many fans expect an instant tranformation because frankly they are clueless as I explained above.

You might think 5 months is an age but I believe it's not.

I also expected many many mistakes on Gary's part as a result of him being a rookie. Fans pounce on ANY mistake and amplify it as a disaster, a disgrace etc. They do this because.....need I repeat?

HOWEVER.

What I also expect to see is some form of improvement.

Forget relegation. Many fans can't because they can't see beyond the end of their own noses but whatever....forget it for now.

Are we playing better now?

Are we getting results?

The answer to both is undoubtedly yes.

Then the remaining question is simply whether that progress is enough to suggest it will continue next season under Gary or whether it would be better under someone else.

Relegation is irrelevant. Fans MUST stop seeing everything in short terms and start looking at the bigger picture.

5 months is a totally insignificant amount of time to expect a new manager to turn things.

Ross County performed miracles this season but fans are simply ignoring this because....well I'm going round in circles now.

The BOD should and probably will ignore the fans on this.

IMO they are quite correct to do so.

Good to see that you've realised that you're clueless.

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Yes it is a reasonable view and yes he'll be judged on that.

You're also right about the fans regarding the previous paragraphs but I'll say it again because it needs repeating - Fans are absolutely clueless about the realities of what it takes to run a football club. They are clueless on tactics, signings and finance. None of that should be debatable. Fans are absolutely and utterly useless when it comes to making proper decisions about the club because they follow their hearts rather than their heads.

As for hiring Gary, I'm more inclined to accept that a rookie manager inheriting a team lacking in confidence will take time to turn things around. Many fans expect an instant tranformation because frankly they are clueless as I explained above.

You might think 5 months is an age but I believe it's not.

I also expected many many mistakes on Gary's part as a result of him being a rookie. Fans pounce on ANY mistake and amplify it as a disaster, a disgrace etc. They do this because.....need I repeat?

HOWEVER.

What I also expect to see is some form of improvement.

Forget relegation. Many fans can't because they can't see beyond the end of their own noses but whatever....forget it for now.

Are we playing better now?

Are we getting results?

The answer to both is undoubtedly yes.

Then the remaining question is simply whether that progress is enough to suggest it will continue next season under Gary or whether it would be better under someone else.

Relegation is irrelevant. Fans MUST stop seeing everything in short terms and start looking at the bigger picture.

5 months is a totally insignificant amount of time to expect a new manager to turn things.

Ross County performed miracles this season but fans are simply ignoring this because....well I'm going round in circles now.

The BOD should and probably will ignore the fans on this.

IMO they are quite correct to do so.

1eye.gif Really? What is the point of this forum at all? You clearly know everything and everyone else is wrong...it's pretty pointless anyone else posting because you are clearly a fount of all knowledge.bangin.gif

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Why did he not change it when we still had a chance. Why did he persist with Genev, Goodwin, Arquin etc when we had better in the u20s. He hasn't turned anything around, he discovered purely by chance that we had players better than those he had been picking. He had umpteen games after we beat Thistle when he did nothing. Circumstances dictated picking young lads who have proved they have potential it was no genius on GTs part. Keep GT, keep Gow, keep Goodwin ffs it's very recent diabolical mistakes people want repeated over and over again.

Why did he not change it when we still had a chance. Why did he persist with Genev, Goodwin, Arquin etc when we had better in the u20s. He hasn't turned anything around, he discovered purely by chance that we had players better than those he had been picking. He had umpteen games after we beat Thistle when he did nothing. Circumstances dictated picking young lads who have proved they have potential it was no genius on GTs part. Keep GT, keep Gow, keep Goodwin ffs it's very recent diabolical mistakes people want repeated over and over again.

You would be posting the same thing on here or worse had he went with the young lads and got relegated. Teale would have been slated big time if he had done that. But this is St Mirren fans so we should know you will get hammered no matter what you do

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At least he still has some plot left. You lost yours long ago when backing Teale for the managers job and saying that the board can do no wrong.

At least he still has some plot left. You lost yours long ago when backing Teale for the managers job and saying that the board can do no wrong.

Wrong on two counts.

1; Have said I will back any new manager appointed get that bit if not look at my history. I am also saying Teale should be considered for obvious reasons I see and you don't.

2; The board , again look through my history I have wrote they have made massive mistakes this season which has caused the relegation. However they have done a lot of good over the seasons past are die hard fans and so mean their best.

Glad you never make mistakes in your life though I would say drop you anger at the club life is too short.

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What has made me laugh out loud in the last week is Gilmour announcing to the press that "Relegation isn't that bad anymore"... FFS! With that reasoning Tealzo must be a shoeing for the managers job as he exceeded expectations by managing to avoid the play-offs!

Why do you not explain what Mr Gilmour really said. He was speaking from a financial sense you now get money for dropping out the league . the championship is also covered by TV now so the bottom line Mr Gilmour meant was its not as big a hit money wise as it was in the days gone bu

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You would be posting the same thing on here or worse had he went with the young lads and got relegated. Teale would have been slated big time if he had done that. But this is St Mirren fans so we should know you will get hammered no matter what you do

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Teale had very little chance of success as soon as Ross County went on that crazy run and Motherwell got the chequebook out for Pearson and McDonald. Whatever he'd done was going to meet with criticism from some quarter but that's the job and he wanted it.

Should he get the gig permanently? Not if it was up to me.

In my lifetime of watching Saints we've mostly either gone to the lower divisions or promoted from within when it came to managers and we've had varying degrees of success. This time I'd like to see us invest in an experienced manager that has a decent track record matched with a desire to be successful and a semi-coherent plan of how to develop young talent by surrounding it with experienced pros to bring them on.

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So you agree that you're clueless?

What, because I don't agree with you, you mean?

Last time I looked this was a forum for healthy debate on all things St Mirren, not a place for bullies to hide behind their keyboards and make smart remarks!

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