leolovesstmfc Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think if he intends to sign a new contract with St.Mirren then I think it's a low blow! So it says to me he's off and trying to get himself as much money as he can! If I remember correctly Thommo said he would give John his win bonuses and John still got his wages so don't get the loss of earnings bit! Still think with all that time off how many points on his Nandos card is that! Seriously though if John intended to stay would he not have sat down and brought this up during negotiations rather than sue? Think John should remember though without St.Mirren he would have no earnings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 In the above Watford example the player affected did not make a claim for damages which they could have. Why they did not could have been for many reasons - legally identifying the culprit being one. In the hypothetical pumpkin case if an investigation found that St Mirren failed in any way then they would have a responsibility. It all depends on individual circumstances and whether the employee feels sufficiently strongly to make a claim or whether the H&S Executive get involved. John's case is different from the above as an injury occurred and Zurich_allan has laid out the legal circumstances pretty well. In all cases of injury it must be recorded, by law, in the H&S log and a detailed report produced (if a workplace has more than 5 employees). That report should be sent to the Health & Safety Executive if deemed serious enough and the H&S Executive would deem if any further action is necessary. Regardless of John's claim I am sure that the H&S Executive would be investigating the circumstances of John's injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Potter shites in a pumpkin, someone slips on Potter's shite, it's St Mirren's fault? Vinny Jones and the crazy gang cut up John Scales £500 suit in the dressing room, so Scales sues Wimbledon? Where does it end? Did Scales lose earnings as a result of the suit being cut? Did a player slip on the shite, get injured then lose earnings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Possibly the Club seen him okay for his wages at the time. This seems something completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 What loss of earnings? Who knows if would've been picked to play those games. I would imagine the court would take into account the fact that he was a regular first choice pick, when fit, in virtually every game for almost 3 years leading up to the injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Did Scales lose earnings as a result of the suit being cut? Did a player slip on the shite, get injured then lose earnings? I wasn't discussing earnings. I was discussing the difference between employer and individual liability, which I genuinely do not understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 If anything untoward happens in the workplace then the employer may be liable or may not be liable. Only a full investigation would determine that. With injuries the H&S Executive would get involved but again it may or may not be the employer's responsibility. Someone has to make a claim - against their employer if at work - or against an individual if outwith work. If an employer has seemed to fulfil all their legal obligations then an individual may be pursued for damages. All depends on a complaint and the findings of the investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurich_allan Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 I would imagine the court would take into account the fact that he was a regular first choice pick, when fit, in virtually every game for almost 3 years leading up to the injury? Correct. Given that this is a civil case, they wouldn't have to prove that he definitely would have been picked (we all know that if fit he would have been), they would have to show that on the balance of probabilities it's likely he would have been picked. All of the available evidence points toward that being the case, it would be a very tall order to produce any evidence that points to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Mr. Zurich... If I was at my work, and everything was going along normally, then for a laugh, I picked up a paperweight and threw it towards a work colleague, thinking they'd catch it, but they didn't. It hit them on the head and they were off work for a month. Why would my employer be liable? I understand it happened while at my place of work, but it was 100% the fault of my foolish act... which is what appears to have happened at St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP87 Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 He's within his tights to sue but what a low blow and what a signal to send out to future employers. In McGinn and Thommo I had 2 players I wanted to keep from last season's out of contract. Now I have just 1. A sad way for it to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad saint 2 Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 can i sue st mirren for cruel and mental torture for watching team last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Mr. Zurich... If I was at my work, and everything was going along normally, then for a laugh, I picked up a paperweight and threw it towards a work colleague, thinking they'd catch it, but they didn't. It hit them on the head and they were off work for a month. Why would my employer be liable? Because your employer has a care of duty to prevent you from being injured, or worse, dying when at your work as a result of unsafe practices. Go into any company in the western world and read their H&S policy and you'll see a pyramid style diagram showing who is responsible for who in a workplace. In all cases, the head of the company is at the very top of this pyramid and is ultimately responsible for the safety of his entire workplace. Most companies pay over and above the government SSP levels these days and that's not the issue here. He is likely claiming for personal injury as a result of negligence rather than lost earnings. For example, if you're involved in a minor car accident and suffer whiplash and lose just a week on the sick with full pay, you're still entitled to claim the other parties' insurance for personal injury. This could be anything from £1,000 - £4,000 and is the very reason people stage accidents as a means of defrauding insurance. A lot of people on here seem to be jumping to the conclusion that he's claiming for lost earnings, when he'll almost 100% be claiming for injuries sustained given that he's a contracted employee and will still be making his full earnings whilst injured. And before the usual suspects jump on the 'oh FFS he'll be claiming when he gets tackled next' no he won't. As a footballer, involved in daily physical athletic confrontations is part and parcel of your job description and you are well subsidised for this. Being stabbed in the leg, accidentally or otherwise, isn't and that - presumably - is exactly why he's claiming for personal injury. Edited June 14, 2015 by djchapsticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad saint 2 Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 wait till clubs up and down the country will be sued , when players get injured in training ,and are hurt and not getting win bonuses and extras players and agents ,another cash cow ,roll on the claims there will be ads on tv next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Because your employer has a care of duty to prevent you from being injured, or worse, dying when at your work as a result of unsafe practices. Go into any company in the western world and read their H&S policy and you'll see a pyramid style diagram showing who is responsible for who in a workplace. In all cases, the head of the company is at the very top of this pyramid and is ultimately responsible for the safety of his entire workplace. Most companies pay over and above the government SSP levels these days and that's not the issue here. He is likely claiming for personal injury as a result of negligence rather than lost earnings. For example, if you're involved in a minor car accident and suffer whiplash and lose just a week on the sick with full pay, you're still entitled to claim the other parties' insurance for personal injury. This could be anything from £1,000 - £4,000 and is the very reason people stage accidents as a means of defrauding insurance. A lot of people on here seem to be jumping to the conclusion that he's claiming for lost earnings, when he'll almost 100% be claiming for injuries sustained given that he's a contracted employee and will still be making his full earnings whilst injured. And before the usual suspects jump on the 'oh FFS he'll be claiming when he gets tackled next' no he won't. As a footballer, involved in daily physical athletic confrontations is part and parcel of your job description and you are well subsidised for this. Being stabbed in the leg, accidentally or otherwise, isn't and that - presumably - is exactly why he's claiming for personal injury. How can an employer be responsible for one of its employees picking up a paperweight and throwing it , or for that matter a cup , a rubber. If a peace of equipment such as an electrical pug should give an employee a shock them the employer is responsible. So cant see how St Mirren can be responsible for an employee picking up a peace of equipment for a joke that goes wrong. Then again has the employee done a risk assessment on training polls , I would think not. No doubt it will have to next season , or change the type of poll that has no sharp edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripey Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Legally what John McGinn is doing is probably correct, whether he wins his case is another matter however I personally think that morally what he is doing is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 How can an employer be responsible for one of its employees picking up a paperweight and throwing it , or for that matter a cup , a rubber. If a peace of equipment such as an electrical pug should give an employee a shock them the employer is responsible. Because when you are on company time and premises, you are in effect in the care of the company. You are on their insurance tab from the moment you walk in until you leave. Employees, contractors, visitors. If anything goes wrong on their premises it's on their tab. If I go into my work tomorrow and drop dead from a heart attack, completely unrelated to my working day, my next of kin will be guaranteed to be paid 10x my annual salary from the company's insurance tab. Despite the fact it's clearly not the company's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Because your employer has a care of duty to prevent you from being injured, or worse, dying when at your work as a result of unsafe practices. Go into any company in the western world and read their H&S policy and you'll see a pyramid style diagram showing who is responsible for who in a workplace. In all cases, the head of the company is at the very top of this pyramid and is ultimately responsible for the safety of his entire workplace. Most companies pay over and above the government SSP levels these days and that's not the issue here. He is likely claiming for personal injury as a result of negligence rather than lost earnings. For example, if you're involved in a minor car accident and suffer whiplash and lose just a week on the sick with full pay, you're still entitled to claim the other parties' insurance for personal injury. This could be anything from £1,000 - £4,000 and is the very reason people stage accidents as a means of defrauding insurance. A lot of people on here seem to be jumping to the conclusion that he's claiming for lost earnings, when he'll almost 100% be claiming for injuries sustained given that he's a contracted employee and will still be making his full earnings whilst injured. And before the usual suspects jump on the 'oh FFS he'll be claiming when he gets tackled next' no he won't. As a footballer, involved in daily physical athletic confrontations is part and parcel of your job description and you are well subsidised for this. Being stabbed in the leg, accidentally or otherwise, isn't and that - presumably - is exactly why he's claiming for personal injury. In your example of a minor road accident, if I collide with a workmate after we've both left work and hit him at a roundabout down the road causing injury, it's between us, but if I'm acting the Joe Cnut driving way too fast round the company car park at lunchtime and I ram into him causing injury, then our employer could be in trouble for failing to protect him at his place of work? Something is fcuked in the world, seriously fcuked. Edited June 14, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) In your example of a minor road accident, if I collide with a workmate after we've both left work and hit him at a roundabout down the road causing injury, it's between us, but if I'm acting the Joe Cnut driving way too fast round the company car park at lunchtime and I ram into him causing injury, then our employer could be in trouble for failing to protect him at his place of work? Something is fcuked in the world, seriously fcuked. It would certainly be investigated to see what the company could have done to protect the worker injured. Were there speed restrictions in place, any sort of crossing system, hazard reports or near misses filled out? If it's found that the company has done all it can to prevent this sort of accident happening, then it's on your head. If the investigation finds more could have been done, then it would apportion some, if not most of the blame onto the business. If you're walking through a shopping centre and fall on a wet floor when there's no sign there and break your ankle, you don't claim the wee cleaner woman who made an arse of it and was so stressed out she forgot to put the sign down. You claim the actual business as it's them who have the care of duty to you, as a visitor. Edited June 14, 2015 by djchapsticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 No Poz. Because it happens at work simply means the workplace has to be investigated first. It may not be liable. But until there is an investigation then degree of culpability is unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 It would certainly be investigated to see what the company could have done to protect the worker injured. Were there speed restrictions in place, any sort of crossing system, hazard reports or near misses filled out? If it's found that the company has done all it can to prevent this sort of accident happening, then it's on your head. If the investigation finds more could have been done, then it would apportion some, if not most of the blame onto the business. If you're walking through a shopping centre and fall on a wet floor when there's no sign there and break your ankle, you don't claim the wee cleaner woman who made an arse of it and was so stressed out she forgot to put the sign down. You claim the actual business as it's them who have the care of duty to you, as a visitor. FFS Ah gie up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 I don't think anybuddie should judge him without knowing the ins and outs. He's suffered a workplace injury and is more than entitled to make a claim. We also don't have a clue how the club dealt with the injury afterwards. He obviously feels he is due compensation and if he is then he should get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Probably nothing to do with McGinn. Prompted , forced by his Lawyer . Anybody know who he is ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmurray24 Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Truth will come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 Truth will come out. Spitting the dummy at not getting a move to Wigan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 I remember when there were really high winds a few years ago, police were advising to only drive before 11 am. Everyone at my work got an email at 10 am instructing us to stay in the office, but a further one at 5 pm to say we were free to leave, even though police were advising that was the most dangerous time to travel, but it was after the working day so my employer couldn't be held liable if anything happened on the way home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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