DougJamie Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 We are all licking our wounds after what was a harmful, often upsetting season. And I have to confess that after watching our semi final against Tic in 2013 it got me thinking. That day even though it was 3-2 we destroyed Tic , but apart from McGinn, Thompson and Goodwin we now have a completely different squad and playing style. We passed Tic to death, in fact the final against Hearts, they realized they had to stop Saints passing. We had pace from Midfield with had pace on wings and upfront. So ask yourself, we all remember glory years. Have we over achieved as a mid sized provincial club. In my time as a fan I have below highlights, compare that to other provincial clubs and see if they have more. First game 1977 4- 1 United, Second Game 1-2 Well sell out and mad. That season win League. 1978 +1979 Beat Tic all the time, some good results and improving League oh and Anglo Scottish Cup. Play awesome against Liverpool, Aber pulling the strings Early 80s, lead League at Xmas, finish in top 5 3 times in 5 years, European exploits. Get to semi finals on regular basis. 87 Semi versus Hearts and then of course winning Cup. Europe follows Next 8 years we go backwards, but we come out of other side, stronger and start to threaten League one. 1999- Hedo gets us up. Great attempt with same squad just miss out to Dundee Utd, Build again in League One under Gus win B+Q, go up 2005. 2006 Win first 2 matches, players come and go but we retain top status. 2010 LC Finalists, 2013 League Cup winners. Ok so supported 38 years and we have progressed or achieved and survived in 28 of them. Ok compare that with Say Dons - they collapsed. Rankers died United- Apart from limited success since 80s they have plummeted Hearts- Despite Millions no success bar a couple of cups Celtic- Thet are playing an Icelandic Team and they are worried- need I say more With the exception of St Johnstone, Caley I cant think of any team that has had more success , in relative terms, than us over a sustained period. Ok glass half empties take ur pop!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Great memories and great highlights. Don't know if we have over achieved. The big mystery is why we never kick on to the next level. The 2013 team was a cracker yet despite the success and the great facilities we imploded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky1 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Agree, great memories from the 80's, cup semi-finals, challenging for european football each year until 86/87 season. Teams knew they wouldn't have it easy against us no matter where the game was played. We had several match winners playing every game. Good goalkeepers, decent defenders with great attacking players. As mentioned everytime we stepped forward we never kicked on, we always stepped side ways or took 3 steps back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17/03/13 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I wouldn't say we've over-achieved. You've got to ask yourself, how many teams in Scotland are bigger than us?? 6 or 7?? Then we should be competing in top flight & national trophy win every 25 or so years is not out of the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted June 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't say we've over-achieved. You've got to ask yourself, how many teams in Scotland are bigger than us?? 6 or 7?? Then we should be competing in top flight & national trophy win every 25 or so years is not out of the question I think we have, What teams have kicked on bar Fakes and Caley and County. I cant think of any. Teams have lifespans, we had one under Fergie that developed exceptional players- McGarvey, Stark, Fitz, Aber , Torrance.... we then had 80s line up Munro, McDougall, Scanlon .... so on. Lets go forward 10 months------ IF Saints win promotion would that be classified as success to get back to League we really should be not have left Also you need to ask yourself, if you don't think Saints are a success story- again relative terms- why do we all feel it when we underachieve, the gap between the top 6 is not great now. Gers if they are one of your pics, and I guess Hibs are in the same league as us, Hearts have just gone back up, Dons are no where near where they were under Calderwood, so overall all teams rise and fall, with provincial clubs its almost impossible to move forward when we peak. Far bigger clubs than us cant do it, we are hardly a yoyo club. I am prepared for a good fews years rebuilding but it willl be fun watching us redevelop Edited June 23, 2015 by DougJamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 as mentioned above...."never kicked on " i dont think we had the money to kick on so in those terms maybe we have over achieved and should be vewy vewy pwoud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Great memories and great highlights. Don't know if we have over achieved. The big mystery is why we never kick on to the next level.... Gus was never given enough time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17/03/13 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I think we have, What teams have kicked on bar Fakes and Caley and County. I cant think of any. Teams have lifespans, we had one under Fergie that developed exceptional players- McGarvey, Stark, Fitz, Aber , Torrance.... we then had 80s line up Munro, McDougall, Scanlon .... so on. Lets go forward 10 months------ IF Saints win promotion would that be classified as success to get back to League we really should be not have left Also you need to ask yourself, if you don't think Saints are a success story- again relative terms- why do we all feel it when we underachieve, the gap between the top 6 is not great now. Gers if they are one of your pics, and I guess Hibs are in the same league as us, Hearts have just gone back up, Dons are no where near where they were under Calderwood, so overall all teams rise and fall, with provincial clubs its almost impossible to move forward when we peak. Far bigger clubs than us cant do it, we are hardly a yoyo club. I am prepared for a good fews years rebuilding but it willl be fun watching us redevelop I am happy at what we achieved over last 10 years or so. I don't think we over-achieved or under-achieved, I think what we done was on par at what a club our size should be doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Gus was never given enough time.... I do hope you're trolling. Gus' time was up at least a year before he was let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Gus was never given enough time.... I do hope you're trolling. Trolling? Moi?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Arguably the period where we over-achieved were the Fergie - Alex Smith years, with regular top 5 finishes in the 80's and European football and good cup runs every year or two. Financially it was a much more level playing field. There wasn't much TV money or sponsorship, the Old Firm gates were lower, provincial clubs had healthier attendances and the diddy clubs were able to compete with the Old Firm for signings up to a point. I don't think we are automatically due a place in the top flight due to our size / status. I think we are about the same size or status as clubs like Killie, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Dundee, Falkirk, Inverness, Ross County, Raith Rovers. We did well to get promoted and stay in the SPL for the best part of a decade. We had some good cup runs and got to see some decent players in the stripes... the two McGinns, Dorman, Jack Ross, Teale, Thompson, Goodwin, Tesselaar, McLean and had a few seasons of playing attractive football and bringing through homegrown talent, I'm not sure there is huge case for saying we over-achieved in the league during our last stint in the SPL. I think there is less of an even playing field these days and we were mostly roughly where you would expect us to be most seasons... the bottom six and often not too far ahead of the relegated teams. Now that many bigger clubs who had debts hanging over them that you could not realistically see them being able to replay have been able to swap debt for equity (Aberdeen, Dundee United, Kilmarnock) and become more or less debt free again I think we have missed our window of opportunity to push on and make the top 6 while those clubs struggled financially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I do hope you're trolling. Gus' time was up at least a year before he was let go. Yet, in his last season, we had our highest league finish in two decades, reached our first major cup final in 23 years and had our biggest league victory over Celtic in 115 years. And all achieved just 5 years after being in our third successive battle against relegation to the Second Division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr rotund Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Yet, in his last season, we had our highest league finish in two decades, reached our first major cup final in 23 years and had our biggest league victory over Celtic in 115 years. And all achieved just 5 years after being in our third successive battle against relegation to the Second Division. Danny Lennon had an even better record but the rank rotten football on offer most weeks was the reason they eventually both left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Back to that 2013 game. I get Gonzalves going, Newton, Dummett Van Zanten, even though he had his best two games ever semi and final. What I never got was Samson, McGowan going, we lost pace, goals, presence in one pre season. But I stand by my point, we will be playing the Raiths, Falfirks and Hibs of this world, lets ses how we fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Have we overachieved in the last 30 years or so - mibbes aye, mibbes naw (Scotch Harry - Minder)? Definitely not in the league, mibbes aye with our two major cup wins which is as much as any of the diddy teams have achieved in that period but really that's two five game runs in 30 years - great days though! . Edited June 24, 2015 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 We do not screw creditors in our attempt to achieve success. We go about our business the way all business's should be run. Whatever we do, or don't do, I love St. Mirren for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiebud Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Exactly. A mate of mine is from Watford. He supported from a boy but has stopped going, now that they have a millionaire chairman, who brings in foreigners on stupid wages. He says the club has no soul any more. I would hate to see St Mirren be bought over by someone with too much money, using the club as an ego trip. We are lucky in Scotland, that clubs are , in the whole, still community based, where youngsters can still aspire to play for their local heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Danny Lennon had an even better record but the rank rotten football on offer most weeks was the reason they eventually both left. The starting positions for Gus Mapherson & Danny Lennon were very very different. Gus took over when we were in a third successive battle against relegation, had £3 million of debt and no training facilities. Danny took over from a starting position of our highest league position in 20 years, reaching cup finals for the first time in almost a quarter of a century, established in the top flight for 4 years, no debt and top of the range training facilities. In terms of the "rank rotten football on display" then I think this would need to be viewed against the standard of football that St. Mirren were playing for most the of the 15 years prior to Gus Macpherson's appointment and the standard on view after Danny Lennon left. Back in 1991 Alan Curbishley took over Charlton Athletic in England's third tier. He quickly won them 2 successive promotions and established them in the top flight of English football. They effectively got rid of him in 2006 because fans wanted the club to 'kick on'. They were back in the third tier within 4 years of his departure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Have we overachieved in the last 30 years or so - mibbes aye, mibbes naw (Scotch Harry - Minder)? Definitely not in the league, mibbes aye with our two major cup wins which is as much as any of the diddy teams have achieved in that period but really that's two five game runs in 30 years - great days though! . I think its very difficult to look at the past 30 years on a like for like basis. Many of our rivals were either bankrolled by rich businessmen or families or had rich businessmen who were able to secure them very large borrowing facilities. The likes of Dundee, Motherwell, Kilmarnock & Dunfermline all spring to mind. Dundee & Dunfermline eventually suffered as a result while Motherwell have spectactularly got away with it. I always think a good comparison for Saints has been Partick Thistle. A similar sized club in terms of support and no rich backers. I know they are now in the top flight while we are in the second tier but I think that St. Mirren have achieved far more in the past 30 years than Partick Thistle. 2 major trophies, more seasons in the top flight, higher league finishes certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Can a mod change the topic title to "Saints have Overachieved - OPINION" Some people's sense of self-importance beggars belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) I think its very difficult to look at the past 30 years on a like for like basis. Many of our rivals were either bankrolled by rich businessmen or families or had rich businessmen who were able to secure them very large borrowing facilities. The likes of Dundee, Motherwell, Kilmarnock & Dunfermline all spring to mind. Dundee & Dunfermline eventually suffered as a result while Motherwell have spectactularly got away with it. I always think a good comparison for Saints has been Partick Thistle. A similar sized club in terms of support and no rich backers. I know they are now in the top flight while we are in the second tier but I think that St. Mirren have achieved far more in the past 30 years than Partick Thistle. 2 major trophies, more seasons in the top flight, higher league finishes certainly. Can''t really argue with any of that, on the subject of Thistle here'e what I said about them on the Scary Mascot Thread. My initial thought, but then I cast my mind back 5 years or so to when Thistle were at the bottom end of Division 1 and in financial turmoil. We often forget there are maybe about 10 or so similar sized clubs to us all competing for about 6 places in the top flight. The wheel seems to have turned and it's time for us to fight like polecats (which are black&whitish) for anything and everything that's going from sponsorship (like this deal) & hospitality to onfield activities - here's hoping in 5 years from now (or even sooner!) the wheel will have turned again and we'll be back up at the top of the diddy team's pole! Edit - On the no rich backers front didn't those rotund Eurolottery winners from Largs give Thistle money to build their youth training facility? Edited June 24, 2015 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Back to that 2013 game. I get Gonzalves going, Newton, Dummett Van Zanten, even though he had his best two games ever semi and final. What I never got was Samson, McGowan going, we lost pace, goals, presence in one pre season. But I stand by my point, we will be playing the Raiths, Falfirks and Hibs of this world, lets ses how we fair. McGowan never left till the summer of 2014 when he was released. Samson left because Kilmarnock offered him more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Gus was never given enough time.... He got much longer than you think ,every minute felt like an hour ! ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Simpson Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I don't think we have over achieved in the past 30 years. I just think some people are never happy. Perhaps there was a purple patch in the late 70s and 80s but since we have been mediocre at best the vast majority of the time. That said x2 first division titles, league cup and challenge cup wins were all amazing to see (and all relatively recent...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.