New 1877 Members Only Supporters Club

[davidg]

At Love Street we had the executive club.Most of our current board were members and it was a jolly old club to be a member of.Our board at that time i think were jealous of the joyous times they had when they got together on a Saturday and pushed them aside and generally messed them about unless they had something to offer(cash).

The point to my story is that we are in danger of having another elite club which 90% of our home support cannot gain entry to.It brings out the old i,m a better fan than you scenario so dare i suggest that a £30 per year membership for all on a first come first serve on match day policy be instigated as i reckon we would get around 1000 members but the uptake on match days would probably be around the 300 mark and that ensures the club is full and profits are maximised.The fans council have done well to get this to the stage its at and i will join whatever way its done but i would like anyone locked out on a Saturday to be because they were too late coming down not that they could not get in the first place.

The Fans Council,Smisa.supporters clubs should all get together and work together to ensure we are all singing from the same hymn sheet to ensure our club prospers.All supporters are equal and our aims should be the same.

Agree 100% mate.

This hasn't been thought out well at all, delighted something is happening with the void though.

It will be under capacity every week and they can't let a visitor in in case a member wants to come along at 2:30 for 1 drink before the game.

[davidg]

But it's very simple if you don't want to be a member than that's your choice.

Is this really the view a fans council committee member should be adopting?

• To act as an intermediary between the Club and the Fans
• To share knowledge and best practice and to improve relationships between the various stakeholders, in particular the relationship between the Fans and the Club.
• To provide a good communication flow, between the Club and the Fans.
• To provide a platform for the Fans to ensure they are involved in appropriate decision making.
• To act as the prime movers in various fund raising initiatives for the mutual benefit of the Club, the Fans and the Community."

[Drew]

I hastily signed up but have reconsidered, having read the 'small print' (ie - posts on here).

I agree with most that it is a step in the right direction, but requires some work. Hopefully the concerns and suggestions on here (and no doubt elsewhere) will be taken on board.

[rea]

I hastily signed up but have reconsidered, having read the 'small print' (ie - posts on here).

I agree with most that it is a step in the right direction, but requires some work. Hopefully the concerns and suggestions on here (and no doubt elsewhere) will be taken on board.

when this was speced for 10KH the issue was the same however it was mitagated in a couple of ways.

Firstly you were not paying for membership of the bar, you were buying the Club so it could be first come first served with a cap of 300.

Second, it was designed to be used at half time also but by a separate cohort of those sitting infront of it in the main stand, the Club could then have charged a premium on ST in this area to enable nice undercover half time berverages and food, you could limit that to 300 sales of premium seasontickets only as it is only a 15 min wondow

Third the actual fit out was community funded, so no "member" as such had direct skin in the game, which meant you could be much more flexible in how you reached your 300 capacity.

The fundamental issue is you can only accomodate 300, and 300 will be a tight squeeze at that, you have to find a balance, we will soon see if that balance is right.

It might not be popular but in pure economics as demand is high i think using the model they are now in it would have been better making it much more expensive, a sort of "hospitality light" so that the 300 members always turn up and spend money, the risk at the current price point is that folk are members but dont use it, so you only get the membership fee but not the retail profit, you want folk to come many hours before the game and stay many hours after, not sure this price point will achieve that, but time will tell

Edited June 26, 2015 by rea

[aldo_j]

Agree 100% mate.

This hasn't been thought out well at all, delighted something is happening with the void though.

It will be under capacity every week and they can't let a visitor in in case a member wants to come along at 2:30 for 1 drink before the game.

I agree, the structure is wrong.

I've applied along with my dad. If one of us doesn't get a membership then I can't see the other taking it. But what's more valuable? Two guys looking for 4-5 pints from 1.30pm or a guy with 3 kids who has the car. Each member should at least be allowed one guest.

It's a good idea, but the structure is just plain wrong.

[Drew]

went this was speced for 10KH the issue was the same however it was mitagated in a couple of ways.

Firstly you were not paying for membership of the bar, you were buying the Club so it could be first come first served with a cap of 300.

Second, it was designed to be used at half time also but by a separate cohort of those sitting infront of it in the main stand, the Club could then have charged a premium on ST in this area to enable nice undercover half time berverages and food, you could limit that to 300 sales of premium seasontickets only as it is only a 15 min wondow

Third the actual fit out was community funded, so no "member" as such had direct skin in the game, which meant you could be much more flexible in how you reached your 300 capacity.

The fundamental issue is you can only accomodate 300, and 300 will be a tight squeeze at that, you have to find a balance, we will soon see if that balance is right.

It might not be popular but in pure economics as demand is high i think using the model they are now in it would have been better making it much more expensive, a sort of "hospitality light" so that the 300 members always turn up and spend money, the risk at the current price point is that folk are members but dont use it, so you only get the membership fee but not the retail profit, you want folk to come many hours before the game and stay many hours after, not sure this price point will achieve that, but time will tell

The main stumbling block is that the club aren't able/willing to front up the re-fit cost. Had this been an option, it would simply have been a case of charging for entry on the day (say £5) then recouping further outlay from bar takings etc.

I'm not criticising the initiative out of hand, but I am not sure that, in its current form, it appeals to me having taken some time to reflect.

[Stu]

The main stumbling block is that the club aren't able/willing to front up the re-fit cost. Had this been an option, it would simply have been a case of charging for entry on the day (say £5) then recouping further outlay from bar takings etc.

I'm not criticising the initiative out of hand, but I am not sure that, in its current form, it appeals to me having taken some time to reflect.

Except...

Supporters Club Update

We just wanted to provide an update at this point in time and answer some points raised on this forum to date..

We have received 100 applications in 2 hours.

We are offering every supporter the same opportunity to join.

We are limited by the official capacity to 300.

The vast majority of the cost is being met by the club.

We would have liked the ability to offer a sign in facility for friends but we have to make sure there are no health and safety issues with regard potential over crowding. We will monitor the occupancy rate and may review this in future.

Our priority is to provide a facility for St.Mirren supporters not away fans .

Hope this helps but you can e mail us at [email protected] for any specific questions you may have.

Let's make a difference !

St.Mirren Fans Council

It's been pointed out this contradicts what's on the fans council website but it hasn't been cleared up.

It looks like there will be at least 300 people applying so it will be deemed a success. How will people gain access? Will there be special ID cards for them to use so everyone knows who they are?

Edited June 26, 2015 by Stu

[TsuMirren]

The main stumbling block is that the club aren't able/willing to front up the re-fit cost. Had this been an option, it would simply have been a case of charging for entry on the day (say £5) then recouping further outlay from bar takings etc.

I'm not criticising the initiative out of hand, but I am not sure that, in its current form, it appeals to me having taken some time to reflect.

It's a tough one, but also yet another "do it...wait, you did it wrong" as regards fitting out the void etc. Maybe a register could free up places if members register their intent to attend, don't register and you miss your slot. Perhaps you'll just naturally find you an provide 50 spaces after running for two months. I must admit, I'll be going down to watch any early games on SKY and not looking for a live band drowning it out. Even then, if it means more people in then do away with the band's proposed stage area and get people in.

[pozbaird]

When we used to go to Livingston, or Dumbarton - pretty sure as visiting fans we could walk up and enter some sort of bar / club in the stands of both football clubs. Have I got this wrong? Is my memory failing me?

[Kendo]

It's a tough one, but also yet another "do it...wait, you did it wrong" as regards fitting out the void etc. Maybe a register could free up places if members register their intent to attend, don't register and you miss your slot. Perhaps you'll just naturally find you an provide 50 spaces after running for two months. I must admit, I'll be going down to watch any early games on SKY and not looking for a live band drowning it out. Even then, if it means more people in then do away with the band's proposed stage area and get people in.

I knew before I read the details of the membership that there would be a lot of people complaining.

At last someone has decided to push ahead with what most people were crying out for and it is surrounded in negativity, just as the 10000 hours was when most fans wanted fan ownership and still do but they weren't prepared to back it when it was available.

No the scheme is not perfect just as 10000 hours wasn't but at least it's a start, at long last there will be a bar and through time it will develop into something to better suit the fans needs.

[pozbaird]

At last someone has decided to push ahead with what most people were crying out for and it is surrounded in negativity, just as the 10000 hours was when most fans wanted fan ownership and still do but they weren't prepared to back it when it was available.

Fans did back 10000hours though. The numbers were there. The numbers for this are 300, and I'm sure that will be achieved.

10000hours failed, but it wasn't because enough 'foot soldiers' didn't sign up - we did.

[Kendo]

Fans did back 10000hours though. The numbers were there. The numbers for this are 300, and I'm sure that will be achieved.

10000hours failed, but it wasn't because enough 'foot soldiers' didn't sign up - we did.

Did you read the abuse div took?

[pozbaird]

Did you read the abuse div took?

I don't follow.

[Kendo]

I don't follow.

The phrase 10000 whores was widely used by some and the abuse at the time dished out to the people backing it beggared belief at times.

[Stu]

Fans did back 10000hours though. The numbers were there. The numbers for this are 300, and I'm sure that will be achieved.

10000hours failed, but it wasn't because enough 'foot soldiers' didn't sign up - we did.

I thought about posting similar but shied away. Clearly you're a braver ginger than me

The phrase 10000 whores was widely used by some and the abuse at the time dished out to the people backing it beggared belief at times.

There was also abuse being dished out to folk who tried to question it, which is why I stopped posting on here for a few years (no great loss most would argue). Ironically one of the people dishing out the abuse then performed an incredible about face and started dishing out abuse to div and the likes.

Fair to say a number of folk on both sides of the "divide" far from covered themselves in glory.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Stu

[bluto]

started dishing out abuse to div and the likes.

Fair to say a number of folk on both sides of the "div-ide" far from covered themselves in glory.

I saw what you did, there.

Clever.

[pozbaird]

The abuse or arguments? I merely queried Kendo saying fans failed to back 10000hours when it was there - that simply isn't true. For whatever reason it failed, it wasn't because fans in sufficient numbers didn't step up and take a punt with DD pledges. I don't understand bringing the acrimony into the discussion, but back on topic!

10000hours DID reach the required fan numbers, in this case the numbers are 300. I am sure that number will be achieved. However, if it does fly, and becomes reality, I really hope the club and Fan Council advertise this, or erect signage at the ground, to absolutely reflect the fact that this is a private members club. It very much is - the 1877 Club, limited to, and only open to, the 300 members of the club.

This is a fact. A private members club of 300 is being created. I think they'll get 300, I wish it no ill, I just personally think it is the wrong model for what it should be. A limited 300 strong private members club makes the 1877 club far more exclusive and closed to outsiders than all bar the biggest, poshest golf clubs.

I hope this isn't going to be referred to as the 'St Mirren Supporters Bar' or suchlike. If anyone from the Fan Council wishes to argue against my view that what is being created here is in fact an exclusive members only private club, I am open to hearing why I am in the wrong.

[waldorf34]

[quote name="Stu" post="1285217" timestamp="1435307795"...

The club have to come clean on where the money is coming from for the fit out.As pointed out we made staff,who had been with us for years, redundant to cut costs going into the championship, now we are building a bar , booze before people?

It's been pointed out this contradicts what's on the fans council website but it hasn't been cleared up.

It looks like there will be at least 300 people applying so it will be deemed a success. How will people gain access? Will there be special ID cards for them to use so everyone knows who they are?

[beyond our ken]

when this was speced for 10KH the issue was the same however it was mitagated in a couple of ways.

Firstly you were not paying for membership of the bar, you were buying the Club so it could be first come first served with a cap of 300.

Second, it was designed to be used at half time also but by a separate cohort of those sitting infront of it in the main stand, the Club could then have charged a premium on ST in this area to enable nice undercover half time berverages and food, you could limit that to 300 sales of premium seasontickets only as it is only a 15 min wondow

Third the actual fit out was community funded, so no "member" as such had direct skin in the game, which meant you could be much more flexible in how you reached your 300 capacity.

The fundamental issue is you can only accomodate 300, and 300 will be a tight squeeze at that, you have to find a balance, we will soon see if that balance is right.

It might not be popular but in pure economics as demand is high i think using the model they are now in it would have been better making it much more expensive, a sort of "hospitality light" so that the 300 members always turn up and spend money, the risk at the current price point is that folk are members but dont use it, so you only get the membership fee but not the retail profit, you want folk to come many hours before the game and stay many hours after, not sure this price point will achieve that, but time will tell

Have to say i agree. it should either be a high-earning, high fee, limited-access type or a £30-50/per year to register first-come first-served arrangement.

Dunfermline have struggled for years to make money out of their void since it became members only-it used to be stacked for every home game with away fans getting access for a door fee if there was room. They tried opening up in the evenings and even offered a shuttle to town to attract youngsters but it still struggles.

That being said, at least it will be fitted out and the subs will cover basic costs-perhaps we can start to make the sort of money the fakes make from their lounge upstairs which is very popular for lunches and has a high reputation

[div]

There was also abuse being dished out to folk who tried to question it, which is why I stopped posting on here for a few years (no great loss most would argue). Ironically one of the people dishing out the abuse then performed an incredible about face and started dishing out abuse to div and the likes.

Fair to say a number of folk on both sides of the "divide" far from covered themselves in glory.

Agreed. It ended up splitting the support which was a shame. The one single thing we ALL want is what is best for the football club.

We will never all agree on anything but that particular subject had so much passion about it and it became difficult to have a sane debate about it because feelings were running so high.

Same thing happened with the referendum debate, it became pretty much impossible to have a discussion with someone on the other side of the thinking because people were so entrenched.

I'm still of the opinion that fan ownership is the right thing for a club like us but it's absolutely fraught with difficulty trying to get the vast majority on side with a model that isn't going to break the club.

I have rejoined SMiSA as I think we do need a strong fans group but whether we can deliver fan ownership, not so sure.

[Stu]

The abuse or arguments? I merely queried Kendo saying fans failed to back 10000hours when it was there - that simply isn't true. For whatever reason it failed, it wasn't because fans in sufficient numbers didn't step up and take a punt with DD pledges. I don't understand bringing the acrimony into the discussion, but back on topic!

It was the point you've just made about the fans apparently not signing up. I was half way through making the same point you made before deciding "Nah, I can't be bothered with this pish again" so walked away.

If this thread descends into another 10000Hours farce I am holding you chiefly responsible and will be reclaiming the NYCFC team sheet

[FTOF]

It's a tough one, but also yet another "do it...wait, you did it wrong" as regards fitting out the void etc. Maybe a register could free up places if members register their intent to attend, don't register and you miss your slot. Perhaps you'll just naturally find you an provide 50 spaces after running for two months. I must admit, I'll be going down to watch any early games on SKY and not looking for a live band drowning it out. Even then, if it means more people in then do away with the band's proposed stage area and get people in.

Indeed.

I'm not interested at all in the live music. Not sure I'd want my subscription paying for a band.

As you say, any space taken up by the band could be used to accommodate more people or at least make it less of a "tight fit".

I've applied, but I'm not sure whether I'd accept or decline membership, if I'm offered it.

[Lord Pityme]

At Love Street we had the executive club.Most of our current board were members and it was a jolly old club to be a member of.Our board at that time i think were jealous of the joyous times they had when they got together on a Saturday and pushed them aside and generally messed them about unless they had something to offer(cash).

The point to my story is that we are in danger of having another elite club which 90% of our home support cannot gain entry to.It brings out the old i,m a better fan than you scenario so dare i suggest that a £30 per year membership for all on a first come first serve on match day policy be instigated as i reckon we would get around 1000 members but the uptake on match days would probably be around the 300 mark and that ensures the club is full and profits are maximised.The fans council have done well to get this to the stage its at and i will join whatever way its done but i would like anyone locked out on a Saturday to be because they were too late coming down not that they could not get in the first place.

The Fans Council,Smisa.supporters clubs should all get together and work together to ensure we are all singing from the same hymn sheet to ensure our club prospers.All supporters are equal and our aims should be the same.

It should be free entry with a door clicker, first come first served, or on match days you book game by game a table/slot £5 a head gets you drink and pie, you don't show, by say one hour before kick off, money goes into kitty, space freed for a.n.other

[div]

I've applied, but I'm not sure whether I'd accept or decline membership, if I'm offered it.

I think plenty are in the same boat, me included. It was easy yesterday to sign up and get first refusal on a place but no chance all of those will convert to paid up memberships for a variety of reasons.

I'm still torn on it. I want to help, and I want the whole thing to happen, but I'm really not sure it's going to work based on this model.

Already one of my mates has said he's out which means anytime he is going to the game we either need to meet elsewhere, defeating the purpose of me having a membership, or we don't meet up, which is equally pointless as to me the football is an afternoon out, not just about the 90 mins.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Be interesting to hear a response to fans concerns or will it be ignored as we have got the 300 ? The fans council mean well I understand that, however a bit of communication with the support for. Ideas on how we would like to see a club bar run would have been good after all. Was that not how the council was formed in the first place.