Lord Pityme Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/taxman-set-probe-st-mirren-6061829 When this is concluded and the full facts are laid out i sincerely hope our club have not been guilty of the accusations made in this article. How the hell can we condemn the exploitation of others at home and abroad if our club weren't even paying the youth contracts £1 a week. Never mind declining to comment SGG how about furnishing us with the facts? Edited July 14, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/taxman-set-probe-st-mirren-6061829 Never mind declining to comment SGG how about furnishing us with the facts? That's not going to happen while an investigation is taking place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Fuxake. I'll give Doran the seven quid if that's what's bothering him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) This is shocking. Not a revelation as it's been in the public domain for quite some time but I cannot get my head around an employer putting trainees on contracts for such measly sums and the not even pay that. Compounding this with refusing to release the kids if they have the opportunity to advance themselves? Un-feckin'-believable!! I hope they throw the book at the lot of them. Edited to add: It was really foolish of the club to push this when the lad wanted to leave. Given the legal culture seeping into our country, were they really expecting no one to take note of the situation? Better for them to have let him leave and it may have stayed under the radar. Edited July 14, 2015 by stlucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If I hated St Mirren as much as The Lord, I would log off and never return. Also, I would find summat else to do at the weekend which would be more desirable. The Beautiful Game, what is there to get upset about ? COYS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If I hated St Mirren as much as The Lord, I would log off and never return. Also, I would find summat else to do at the weekend which would be more desirable. The Beautiful Game, what is there to get upset about ? COYS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Bout time the SPFL introduced a one legal issue at a time ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 The obvious question being how do these contracts get registered if they're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhill Road Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Was hoping to read that this was about last seasons first team.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 So the daily record have rehashed an old story they ran a few months ago? Obviously they had a quiet day story wise, must've missed the rangers being linked with English 3rd tier players that their club don't want. Meh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Wonder who else Liam O'Donnell is advising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Just hope we don't end up with a hefty fine at the end of this. The bottom line there is a legal duty to pay a mininum wage . Edited July 14, 2015 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Ignoring the apologists (because thats what we should do) what standards do we expect from our club? To be consulted on re-branding the stadium for cash? To be consulted on a 'mates only match day bar? To pay the Living Wage to everyone directly employed by The club? Lets look at this HMRC investigation, there are to my mind two parts to the. Kieran Doran-Gate saga. First... the pro-youth contract. If ever there was a completely one sided document to the benefit of professional football clubs then this is the puppy! Devised by out of touch chairmen and boards hell bent on in their mind 'not losing out to the big clubs' they have dug their own grave with this. Why on earth did they not consult with HR specialists fully up to speed with current and pending employment legislation and devise a contract that protected both pro youth player and club??? If you are so worried that the one in a thousand pro youth players that cut it and get a full time contract might jump ship and turn out for another club, then treat them with respect and decency, measured with recognition of the time and cost your club have invested in them. If the pro youth player wants to terminate their contract at any point, but not play competitive football elsewhere then let them. But retain a proviso that should they take on paid football elsewhere during the term of the original contract then the original club are entitled to compensation agreed independently, and reflecting the level of paid football they have moved to. (i.e. Full time pro = top dollar, Junior football= years wages etc). Unpaid football = no compo and it tarnishes the club to pursue a player or club for money they don't pay, or have. To give the clubs a balance Within the terms of the contract a clause should be included whereby the clubs retain the right to claim all training and development fees invested in the player, from the player if they break the terms of the contract on leaving the club(i.e. Try to pull a fast one by getting a job at Mc Donalds, whilst turning out part time for another club) this term should be completely discretionary as every individuals case may differ. (I.e. The complete mess they have got in with. Doran insisting he only wants to play for his Uni side.) Second... You can see why skin flint football club boards have jumped on these slave labour/zero hour contracts to allow them to pay below legal wages, whilst having a wholly unfair and unrealistic hold over a human beings life for up,to ten years. Its like they are trying to get their own back after Bosman. That ship sailed along time ago SMFC BoD! And you demean the good standing of the club by failing to recognise what 'just and fair' mean to both player and club. I call on our board to pay the living wage! Even to Pro youths of whom most don't do full time hours as they are studying/working. Restore our image, our good name and use some of the celtic re-branding money you found so irresistible to do the right thing and end this circus now! Edited July 14, 2015 by Lord Pityme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Ignoring the apologists (because thats what we should do) what standards do we expect from our club? To be consulted on re-branding the stadium for cash? To be consulted on a 'mates only match day bar? To pay the Living Wage to everyone directly employed by The club? Lets look at this HMRC investigation, there are to my mind two parts to the. Kieran Doran-Gate saga. First... the pro-youth contract. If ever there was a completely one sided document to the benefit of professional football clubs then this is the puppy! Devised by out of touch chairmen and boards hell bent on in their mind 'not losing out to the big clubs' they have dug their own grave with this. Why on earth did they not consult with HR specialist, fully up to speed with current and pending employment legislation and devise a contract that protected both pro youth player and club??? If you are so worried that the one in a thousand pro youth players that cut it and get a full time contract might jump ship and turn out for another club, then treat them with respect and decency, measured with recognition of the time and cost your club have invested in them. If the pro youth player wants to terminate their contract at any point, but not play competitive football elsewhere then let them. But retain a proviso that should they take on paid football elsewhere during the term of the original contract then the original club are entitled to compensation agreed independently, and reflecting the level of paid football they have moved to. (i.e. Full time pro = top dollar, Junior football= years wages etc). Unpaid football = no compo and it tarnishes the club to pursue a player or club for money they don't pay, or have. To give the clubs a balance Within the terms of the contract a clause should be included whereby the clubs retain the right to claim all training and development fees invested in the player, from the player if they break the terms of the contract on leaving the club(i.e. Try to pull a fast one by getting a job at Mc Donalds, whilst turning out part time for another club) this term should be completely discretionary as every individuals case may differ. (I.e. The complete mess they have got in with. Doran insisting he only wants to play for his Uni side.) Second... You can see why skin flint football club boards have jumped on these slave labour/zero hour contracts to allow them to pay below legal wages, whilst having a wholly unfair and unrealistic hold over a human beings life for up,to ten years. Its like they are trying to get their own back after Bosman. That ship sailed along time ago SMFC BoD! And you demean the good standing of the club by failing to recognise what 'just and fair' mean to both player and club. I call on our board to pay the living wage! Even to Pro youths of whom most don't do full time hours as they are studying/working. Restore our image, our good name and use some of the celtic re-branding money you found so irresistible to do the right thing and end this circus now! Why don't you phone the Club and ask for answers. And why are you bothered when you detest St Mirren and don't love or support them. COYS Bring on the Berwick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Why don't you phone the Club and ask for answers. And why are you bothered when you detest St Mirren and don't love or support them. COYS Bring on the Berwick. Why do you post nonsense? Do you support paying pro youth players below the legal wage, whilst holding them to ten year contracts? Why dont you phone the club and applaud them for treating human beings so badly. And why are you bothered to write crap about how much I love and support St Mirren??? i,love the team man.... Not the car-crash regime!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Why don't you phone the Club and ask for answers. And why are you bothered when you detest St Mirren and don't love or support them. COYS Bring on the Berwick. it's like a Stuart Dickson rambling Shull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'd play for St Mirren for free. None of the squad last season should have been paid. Not even a quid! I can see the club's point of view on this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Ignoring the apologists (because thats what we should do) what standards do we expect from our club? To be consulted on re-branding the stadium for cash? To be consulted on a 'mates only match day bar? To pay the Living Wage to everyone directly employed by The club? Lets look at this HMRC investigation, there are to my mind two parts to the. Kieran Doran-Gate saga. First... the pro-youth contract. If ever there was a completely one sided document to the benefit of professional football clubs then this is the puppy! Devised by out of touch chairmen and boards hell bent on in their mind 'not losing out to the big clubs' they have dug their own grave with this. Why on earth did they not consult with HR specialists fully up to speed with current and pending employment legislation and devise a contract that protected both pro youth player and club??? If you are so worried that the one in a thousand pro youth players that cut it and get a full time contract might jump ship and turn out for another club, then treat them with respect and decency, measured with recognition of the time and cost your club have invested in them. If the pro youth player wants to terminate their contract at any point, but not play competitive football elsewhere then let them. But retain a proviso that should they take on paid football elsewhere during the term of the original contract then the original club are entitled to compensation agreed independently, and reflecting the level of paid football they have moved to. (i.e. Full time pro = top dollar, Junior football= years wages etc). Unpaid football = no compo and it tarnishes the club to pursue a player or club for money they don't pay, or have. To give the clubs a balance Within the terms of the contract a clause should be included whereby the clubs retain the right to claim all training and development fees invested in the player, from the player if they break the terms of the contract on leaving the club(i.e. Try to pull a fast one by getting a job at Mc Donalds, whilst turning out part time for another club) this term should be completely discretionary as every individuals case may differ. (I.e. The complete mess they have got in with. Doran insisting he only wants to play for his Uni side.) Second... You can see why skin flint football club boards have jumped on these slave labour/zero hour contracts to allow them to pay below legal wages, whilst having a wholly unfair and unrealistic hold over a human beings life for up,to ten years. Its like they are trying to get their own back after Bosman. That ship sailed along time ago SMFC BoD! And you demean the good standing of the club by failing to recognise what 'just and fair' mean to both player and club. I call on our board to pay the living wage! Even to Pro youths of whom most don't do full time hours as they are studying/working. Restore our image, our good name and use some of the celtic re-branding money you found so irresistible to do the right thing and end this circus now! Not another breakdown? Was only a wee while ago he had his last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 The Lord returns. Back to detesting and hating my Club and all who manage it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykey Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If we payed minimum wage every time a player put in a shift then Callum Ball owes the club nearly 20 grand. More seriously youth contracts have needed reviewing for a long time now and not just at SMFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 The Lord returns. Back to detesting and hating my Club and all who manage it. Wrang again Shull! Bit thanks for highlighting you can 'support the team, and not the regime'! Does anyone really think the club shouldn't be paying the living wage? How many under performing duds have been through the club in recent years earning way, way more than they were ever worth, whilst others don't earn enough just to live! We pay the wages, shouldn't we get a say in how much those wages should be? I am sure the Fans Council are all over this... Ha, ha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If we payed minimum wage every time a player put in a shift then Callum Ball owes the club nearly 20 grand. More seriously youth contracts have needed reviewing for a long time now and not just at SMFC. Too true Mykey. But wouldnt it say something about SMFC if we tore up the youth contract and set out our own contract and code of conduct/'The way we do things around here' declaration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalrybud Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If the club has broken the law over this matter the it deserves everything it gets. Deplorable state of affairs and perhaps another indication of bad decision-making on the part of a BoD that is way past its sell by date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I was sure there was a report out a month or two ago about what SPFL clubs paid the living wage - and Saints were one of only 6-7 that did. Celtic and Aberdeen I seem to remember were not. Did I dream this?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 A lot of ifs. And some would take great delight if the ifs became facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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