This Seasons Captain

[erskinebud]

1st para- That not what the refs are told to look for

No, referees look to see whether the hand/arm is in a natural position or maybe extended towards a post in a totally unnatural position. I for one don't walk about with my arm extended from my waist in a teapot style

2nd para- It doesn't matter where the ball is headed

You're correct on this one. Direction of the ball is unimportant, however the area of the pitch in which the ball strikes the unnaturally placed arm is important as to whether the ref awards a free kick (outside the penalty area) or a penalty (inside the box)

3rd & 4th para- Its the other way round & in my opinion there is too many fouls given for handball in modern game

Unfortunately unless you were the referee in this or any other game, your "opinion" counts for nothing, Even the referee's "opinion" doesn't come in to it. The offence would not be one of opinion, only of fact. His thought process would be:- Did the ball strike the player's arm? Yes. Was his arm in an unnatural position? Yes. The only area in which the referee's "opinion" comes into it is whether having awarded the penalty for the hand ball, should it be a red for a movement of hand to ball or a yellow for merely having his stationary hand in an unnatural position.

[17/03/13]

1st para- That not what the refs are told to look for

No, referees look to see whether the hand/arm is in a natural position or maybe extended towards a post in a totally unnatural position. I for one don't walk about with my arm extended from my waist in a teapot style

2nd para- It doesn't matter where the ball is headed

You're correct on this one. Direction of the ball is unimportant, however the area of the pitch in which the ball strikes the unnaturally placed arm is important as to whether the ref awards a free kick (outside the penalty area) or a penalty (inside the box)

3rd & 4th para- Its the other way round & in my opinion there is too many fouls given for handball in modern game

Unfortunately unless you were the referee in this or any other game, your "opinion" counts for nothing, Even the referee's "opinion" doesn't come in to it. The offence would not be one of opinion, only of fact. His thought process would be:- Did the ball strike the player's arm? Yes. Was his arm in an unnatural position? Yes. The only area in which the referee's "opinion" comes into it is whether having awarded the penalty for the hand ball, should it be a red for a movement of hand to ball or a yellow for merely having his stationary hand in an unnatural position.

As I've said before what is walking about got to do with it? All the referee has to think in this situation is why is his hand on the post? Every player defending a post does it so in a football sense it is absolutely natural to put your hand on the post.

I agree with you about the first 2 questions the referee should think about but there is a 3rd question too that you have missed out.

[17/03/13]

Check out the following explanation given by referees association as guidance for referees on "intent" and you should change your mind.

Regarding handball they now ask the referee to consider the proximity of the potential offender to the person last playing the ball, the speed of the ball and importantly whether the offender's arms are in a natural or unnatural position.

So the question of intent is now, did the offender deliberately place his arms in an unnatural position to increase the chances of the ball hitting him?[/size][/font][/color]

If the answer to that is yes then it is correct to penalise that player even though it used to be argued that was ball to hand.

Here it is.....The bit that starts 'So the question of' Edited July 27, 2015 by 17/03/13

[pozbaird]

As I've said before what is walking about got to do with it? All the referee has to think in this situation is why is his hand on the post? Every player defending a post does it so in a football sense it is absolutely natural to put your hand on the post.

I agree with you about the first 2 questions the referee should think about but there is a 3rd question too that you have missed out.

THE BALL SMACKED OFF THE CNUT'S ARM.

THE CNUT STOPPED A CLEAR GOAL.

THE CNUT IS AN EXPERIENCED PRO WHO KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING.

THE CNUT IN THE FLUORESCENT YELLOW DIDN'T GIVE IT COS' HE'S A BLIND FCUKER.

Right, I feel a whole lot better for that. Time for a nice cuppa'.

[stlucifer]

Here it is.....The bit that starts 'So the question of'

It still doesn't answer the question, "WHY was his hand STILL on the post when the rest of his body had moved AWAY from the post"? The simple answer to that is he was using his arm to increase his coverage.

Now put that shovel away.

[Dave The Buddie]

Can't believe you are still going on about this we won the game. We are through.

It would be better for all if they just made it that if the ball strikes your arm in the box deliberate or not it should be a penalty. Simples

Back to the topic Thommo should stay as captain as he is legend and has vast experience also the younger players look up to him with Goodwin as vice captain

[Hambud]

Not if you're holding onto the post, it's a new rule.

what if he was a bit taller and wanted to 'naturally' place both his hands on the crossbar and Thommo's header had just cleared Camerons head striking his naturally placed arms would that be a penalty?

I'm just asking as I'm a bit taller and and can rest my arms on crossbars and may do so when defending corners as I most definitely would have a defensive advantage.

[Bart Simpson]

Can't believe you are still going on about this we won the game. We are through.

It would be better for all if they just made it that if the ball strikes your arm in the box deliberate or not it should be a penalty. Simples

Back to the topic Thommo should stay as captain as he is legend and has vast experience also the younger players look up to him with Goodwin as vice captain

Agree with this. Although can only guess as to IM's opinion of Goodwin given what he has heard/seen before and what preseason/training and games have done since. Edited July 27, 2015 by Bart Simpson

[erskinebud]

Here it is.....The bit that starts 'So the question of'

Three posts it took you to come up with a question that several posters have answered several times on here! So now that you have managed so successfully to boost your post count, can we get on with our not unreasonable enjoyment of a decent performance by the team, by both young and old players, and leave you to look for your next negative cause to champion? I'm sure you will not have to wait long for something to agitate you.

[iTony]

Can't believe you are still going on about this we won the game. We are through.

It would be better for all if they just made it that if the ball strikes your arm in the box deliberate or not it should be a penalty. Simples

Back to the topic Thommo should stay as captain as he is legend and has vast experience also the younger players look up to him with Goodwin as vice captain

I wouldn't like that as you already have a load of players that currently attempt to kick the ball off a Defender's arm to try and get a penalty. If this was enforced it would only encourage even more players to try it.

[Kendo]

what if he was a bit taller and wanted to 'naturally' place both his hands on the crossbar and Thommo's header had just cleared Camerons head striking his naturally placed arms would that be a penalty?

I'm just asking as I'm a bit taller and and can rest my arms on crossbars and may do so when defending corners as I most definitely would have a defensive advantage.

It would be okay as long as the coach tells you to do it. That appears to be how it works.

[norman]

I like the fact this guy still thinks the ref didn't give the penalty due to a detailed and intricate analysis of the subtleties of the rulebook (which he doesn't understand) rather than the actual reason which is, like the majority of the people in the ground at the time, he didn't f**king see it.

[iTony]

I like the fact this guy still thinks the ref didn't give the penalty due to a detailed and intricate analysis of the subtleties of the rulebook (which he doesn't understand) rather than the actual reason which is, like the majority of the people in the ground at the time, he didn't f**king see it.

Its ok, Norman. The consensus on this website seems to be you're allowed to post any old shite in order to post build and start loads of threads.

[Dave The Buddie]

I wouldn't like that as you already have a load of players that currently attempt to kick the ball off a Defender's arm to try and get a penalty. If this was enforced it would only encourage even more players to try it.

It would clear up any confusion and if caused to increase penalties and goals that can only be good for the spectator

[steve_the_saint]

I wouldn't like that as you already have a load of players that currently attempt to kick the ball off a Defender's arm to try and get a penalty. If this was enforced it would only encourage even more players to try it.

It shouldn't apply if ur arm was against ur body though, as the act of hitting the arm wouldn't change the trajectory of the ball (it would hit the players body if the arm wasn't there.) it should apply Only if the arm is away from the body, ie if it affects the trajectory of the ball.

You already see players trying to avoid leaving a trailing arm in the box to prevent the ref having to make a decision, so wouldn't really change much in terms of what players do inside the box.

But it would give a hard and fast rule which wouldn't rely as much on opinion.

[Buddy Marvellous]

So every time the ball hits a hand/arm, its a foul??

Nope but if it stops a goal bound shot from hitting the target it is always a penalty regardless of intent!

[FTOF]

From today's Evening Times.

STEVEN THOMPSON has declared himself fit and ready to lead St Mirren’s Ladbrokes Championship challenge this season.

The veteran striker turns 37 in October and missed most of last year’s campaign – when Saints were relegated from the Premiership – due to injury, managing just four goals.

New manager Ian Murray still hopes to strengthen his options in attack – he has been linked with a loan move for Aberdeen’s Lawrence Shankland – but for the time being, Thommo remains his only out-and-out striker.

The former Rangers man, though, is happy to shoulder that responsibility until the cavalry arrives, and already has his first goal for the season, netting a penalty in Saturday’s Petrofac Cup win over Berwick Rangers.

Saints conclude their pre-season campaign away to Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday before they meet Rangers a week on Friday in their opening league game at Ibrox, and Thompson is bursting to get going.

He told SportTimes: “I’m feeling really good and just looking forward to the season getting underway. We could probably do with adding one or two more faces to the squad as we’re quite young and the manager is actively looking to do that just to beef it up a little.

"But I’m more than happy to take the pressure of being the lone striker in games. I love that. If the manager wants to play me then I’m ready and eager to be involved. In fact, I can’t wait to get going, especially after the disappointment of last year both as a team and personally.”

Last season was a fairly disastrous one for St Mirren as their nine-year stay in the top flight was ended with barely a whimper.

The appointment of Murray, though, and some new signings, have helped lighten the mood already and it hasn’t gone unnoticed among the playing squad.

Thompson added: “I’m already sensing a lot more optimism about the place. You can sense it from the stands as well. You can feel a positivity coming from the supporters and that’s important as a player.

"That transcends on to the pitch more than a supporter would ever realise. At this stage, it’s nice to be playing in front of the fans again.

“As a team we’re in really good shape. Saturday against Berwick was probably the best we’ve passed the ball for a long time, certainly for a season or so.

"We moved the ball extremely well, which is probably a lot down to personnel. We’ve a lot of work to do yet, but I’m sure we’ll step it up over the next week or so.”

Next Friday’s league opener against Rangers is already in the back of the St Mirren players’ minds, the Ibrox side's 6-2 win over Hibs on Saturday underlining the enormity of Saints’ task.

   

Thompson, who played at the Glasgow club between 2003 and 2006, acknowledged as much. He added: “Ibrox is an extremely difficult place to go at the best of times and I think they have signed well this summer. The players they have brought in from Wigan are of a higher standard than the Scottish Championship.

"Rangers will be a very difficult match for us, but like any time you go to Parkhead or Ibrox, you’ve got to go with a bit of hope, try to contain them and maybe create a bit ourselves.”