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That's all well and good Ian , but even those shitey St Mirren teams you mention had players destined for the top of the game , and overall Scottish football was strong from top to bottom. The product just isn't worth watching anymore. I haven't had an ST for years , and I'm glad that I wasn't hoodwinked into getting one this time either !

Yes Billy you are a yesteryear fan like myself and we went too many games together. As always I'm stupid while you have wised up with age. Its a habit I cant give up , you Billy are a bud and always will be its in our blood.
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That's all well and good Ian , but even those shitey St Mirren teams you mention had players destined for the top of the game , and overall Scottish football was strong from top to bottom. The product just isn't worth watching anymore. I haven't had an ST for years , and I'm glad that I wasn't hoodwinked into getting one this time either !

You'll be old enought to remember but the early 70's pre Fergie were pretty grim times but even then we still managed to conjure up gems like Gordon McQueen, Iain Munro and Ally McLeod. And the game was thriving then.

Sadly we are not producing these types of players anymore. The Scottish game was strong enough in that Liverpool could sign the likes of Hansen from Partick Thistle and Steve Nicol from Ayr United and mould them into international class players. Then you have Everton signing Graeme Sharp from Dumbarton as well. Apart from Hamilton flogging the likes of McArthur and McCarthy to Premiership clubs you are hard pushed to find Scottish clubs nowadays producing gems like I have mentioned above. The modern day game sucks.

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the English game is obscene and the hype is ridiculous .

When you see headlines about Man United contemplating putting a package together of £240m to tempt Neymar, and Sky Sports no doubt trying to spice up Sunderland v Bournemouth on a dreich Monday evening then the games a bogey.

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You'll be old enought to remember but the early 70's pre Fergie were pretty grim times but even then we still managed to conjure up gems like Gordon McQueen, Iain Munro and Ally McLeod. And the game was thriving then.

Sadly we are not producing these types of players anymore. The Scottish game was strong enough in that Liverpool could sign the likes of Hansen from Partick Thistle and Steve Nicol from Ayr United and mould them into international class players. Then you have Everton signing Graeme Sharp from Dumbarton as well. Apart from Hamilton flogging the likes of McArthur and McCarthy to Premiership clubs you are hard pushed to find Scottish clubs nowadays producing gems like I have mentioned above. The modern day game sucks.

I was talking to a Killie fan at work today about that . Players nowadays don't seem to have the commitment and struggle with the basics like trapping a ball or stringing a couple of passes together , it gets very frustrating to watch . .

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I bought 3 season tickets this year as usual thinking we would be up there challenging...

I never expected us to go back up in the first season but I do expect us to make the playoffs!

Looking at the start of the season we have not won a game yet convincingly all the teams we have played have had more possession and more shots on Goal!

Our defence is Lightweight and we have started the season playing players out of position.

Kelly is not a CB and although he's had a full season and a half in the premier most of the time playing LB.

Baird looks ok but needs help in the form of an experienced CB to play beside to help him through games.

It's time for an answer from Webster so we can move forward!

Our rivals all seem able to add CB Hibs signing McGregor and the mighty Dumbarton signing Frazer Wright!

The midfield Goodwin when playing aside is also lightweight Agnew offers something going forward as does McMullan and Mallan but all are pushed off the ball or give away possession to easily!

Up front Thompson looks alone up there and can no longer go 90 minutes. Gallagher is untried but shows potential but also dissapears in games.

Gow is pish and never should have been offered a contract!

I'm not sure Shankland is the answer another untried striker think we've got that covered with Gallaher!

So now I have 3 season tickets my oldest boy doesn't want to go already. And my youngest will not be far behind if we keep playing the way we do!

Are we really this bad?

I don't want anyone not going but completely understand why they choose not to when the product is so bad!

Time the manager the board and even youth team Coach need to take responsibility for our position!

The manager has to find his best 11 play them he needs to strengthen the squad and play better football!

The board need to support there manager give him funds and help deliver the players he needs (Andy Webster).

David Longwell needs to start developing player's ready to go into the team! We also need to start selling youths for money rather than Peanuts examples - Mclean and McGinn!

But the player's need to grow a pair and go out there and do what WE the fans pay them to do!

I don't want to start on the manager it's to early but like the team his start has been terrible!

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You'll be old enought to remember but the early 70's pre Fergie were pretty grim times but even then we still managed to conjure up gems like Gordon McQueen, Iain Munro and Ally McLeod. And the game was thriving then.

That's the point I was trying to make , big McQueen was playing for us in 72-73 and losing at the likes of Stenny , yet was a regular in Leeds league winning squad the following season. Young Scots players just don't have it anymore to make that sort of step up in class in a short period. Saints supporters back then were well aware that they were watching top players , even though the team was struggling. Sadly , the players at the club today are either washed up , or going nowhere !

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I bought 3 season tickets this year as usual thinking we would be up there challenging...

I never expected us to go back up in the first season but I do expect us to make the playoffs!

Looking at the start of the season we have not won a game yet convincingly all the teams we have played have had more possession and more shots on Goal!

Our defence is Lightweight and we have started the season playing players out of position.

Kelly is not a CB and although he's had a full season and a half in the premier most of the time playing LB.

Baird looks ok but needs help in the form of an experienced CB to play beside to help him through games.

It's time for an answer from Webster so we can move forward!

Our rivals all seem able to add CB Hibs signing McGregor and the mighty Dumbarton signing Frazer Wright!

The midfield Goodwin when playing aside is also lightweight Agnew offers something going forward as does McMullan and Mallan but all are pushed off the ball or give away possession to easily!

Up front Thompson looks alone up there and can no longer go 90 minutes. Gallagher is untried but shows potential but also dissapears in games.

Gow is pish and never should have been offered a contract!

I'm not sure Shankland is the answer another untried striker think we've got that covered with Gallaher!

So now I have 3 season tickets my oldest boy doesn't want to go already. And my youngest will not be far behind if we keep playing the way we do!

Are we really this bad?

I don't want anyone not going but completely understand why they choose not to when the product is so bad!

Time the manager the board and even youth team Coach need to take responsibility for our position!

The manager has to find his best 11 play them he needs to strengthen the squad and play better football!

The board need to support there manager give him funds and help deliver the players he needs (Andy Webster).

David Longwell needs to start developing player's ready to go into the team! We also need to start selling youths for money rather than Peanuts examples - Mclean and McGinn!

But the player's need to grow a pair and go out there and do what WE the fans pay them to do!

I don't want to start on the manager it's to early but like the team his start has been terrible!

Can you not get a refund on your discount tickets?

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I couldn't make it along tonight so whilst I'm gutted with the result I probably don't feel it quite as much as those who saw it for themselves.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned, but it's still far to early to judge. If we can get the two new players in it will hopefully make a big difference.

Nowt we can do at the moment but cross our fingers and hope that it does.

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It's certainly harder to spend your hard earned cash watching a poor team. But, it's always going to be the way I choose to spend my Saturdays because, for me, the good games are worth it. And most games have something. Even tonight, Mallan's free kick was the entry fee for me. If it's not worth it for other people, I understand, but I've seen worse teams in the past and I know I'll see better in the future. Hopefully sooner rather than later,

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I was talking to a Killie fan at work today about that . Players nowadays don't seem to have the commitment and struggle with the basics like trapping a ball or stringing a couple of passes together , it gets very frustrating to watch . .

There were plenty of world class Scottlsh players in the 60's and 70's who couldn't trap a ball or string together a couple of passes. The difference was back then the club managers played to their strengths. Can you imagine John McCormack, John Greig, Gregor Stephens, Roy Aitken, Walter Kidd, or even big Gordon McQueen playing some of the tippy tappy football of today? Those guys were there to do a job and more often than not they did it well despite the fact the only way they'd do five or more keepy uppy's was if the ball happened to hit them on their face as they lost control.

Scottish Football is a victim though, of poor leadership, bad management and an unhealthy obsession with signing extremely average players, particularly from England. The immediate assumption appears to be that if they can get a regular game from Gateshead they are good enough for the Scottish Premiership. Unfortunately clubs like St Mirren prefer to sign their players off You Tube and the back of an agents tip off, than to actually have scouts out and about in Scotland watching what is going on in the local game. As a result we have a self fulfilling prophesy in that if our transfer market is in players where the only competition is from clubs in the Conference - the quality and standard of our game sits no better than that of the Conference!

As for the original topic - it's a bollocks argument to claim St Mirren are suffering because of strict financial controls imposed by the board. No matter how you carve it up St Mirren have a much larger support than clubs like Dumbarton and Livingston and a far larger cash turnover - yet over the last few weeks the St Mirren side has been outplayed, out fought and out thought by both of those clubs. St Mirren were also damned lucky to win, eventually, against Berwick Rangers and Annan - two more clubs operating on a budget that truly is shoestring compared to St Mirren.

Sadly, despite it being early days, it looks like Murray has been yet another catastrophic managerial appointment by a consortium of board members. This one doesn't even appear to have any contacts anywhere in the English Premiership to help bail him out. And yet still St Mirren continue to charge English Premiership prices at the gate. No wonder customers are being turned off.

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There were plenty of world class Scottlsh players in the 60's and 70's who couldn't trap a ball or string together a couple of passes. The difference was back then the club managers played to their strengths. Can you imagine John McCormack, John Greig, Gregor Stephens, Roy Aitken, Walter Kidd, or even big Gordon McQueen playing some of the tippy tappy football of today? Those guys were there to do a job and more often than not they did it well despite the fact the only way they'd do five or more keepy uppy's was if the ball happened to hit them on their face as they lost control.

Scottish Football is a victim though, of poor leadership, bad management and an unhealthy obsession with signing extremely average players, particularly from England. The immediate assumption appears to be that if they can get a regular game from Gateshead they are good enough for the Scottish Premiership. Unfortunately clubs like St Mirren prefer to sign their players off You Tube and the back of an agents tip off, than to actually have scouts out and about in Scotland watching what is going on in the local game. As a result we have a self fulfilling prophesy in that if our transfer market is in players where the only competition is from clubs in the Conference - the quality and standard of our game sits no better than that of the Conference!

As for the original topic - it's a bollocks argument to claim St Mirren are suffering because of strict financial controls imposed by the board. No matter how you carve it up St Mirren have a much larger support than clubs like Dumbarton and Livingston and a far larger cash turnover - yet over the last few weeks the St Mirren side has been outplayed, out fought and out thought by both of those clubs. St Mirren were also damned lucky to win, eventually, against Berwick Rangers and Annan - two more clubs operating on a budget that truly is shoestring compared to St Mirren.

Sadly, despite it being early days, it looks like Murray has been yet another catastrophic managerial appointment by a consortium of board members. This one doesn't even appear to have any contacts anywhere in the English Premiership to help bail him out. And yet still St Mirren continue to charge English Premiership prices at the gate. No wonder customers are being turned off.

Totally agree

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Folk being angry after last night is understandable, will probably join in the meltdowns myself if we lose on Saturday.

However, it's a bit sad there are a few Saints fans who seem to revel in us being pish, either because it proves them right or gives them some perverse pleasure.

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Folk being angry after last night is understandable, will probably join in the meltdowns myself if we lose on Saturday.

However, it's a bit sad there are a few Saints fans who seem to revel in us being pish, either because it proves them right or gives them some perverse pleasure.

^^^^^^^^ This. Has always been an absolute mystery at the desire to jump to the worst case scenario at the earliest opportunity.

Isn't it the case that at times like this we, as supporters, should be biting the bullet and trying to get behind the team? As tough as it is at times, it is very early in a season to throw the towel in.

Spot on. Seems "support" has a different definition to some.

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Folk being angry after last night is understandable, will probably join in the meltdowns myself if we lose on Saturday.

However, it's a bit sad there are a few Saints fans who seem to revel in us being pish, either because it proves them right or gives them some perverse pleasure.

Agreed. It's almost as if some folk look for validation to chuck it instead of just doing so and not making a song and dance about it.

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Apologies for such negativity and hopefully dont get too slaughtered however anyone who supports this shower of shite by giving them your hard earned cash should take a long hard look at themselves. I have not felt this down since we got beat by 9 men **** in 2010 final, so down i decided to give the rest of the season a miss, lone behold we skelped Celtic 4-0 3 days later and i missed this monumental victory due to being so disgusted. Unfortunately i can safely say i will not be giving St Mirren football club anymore money until i see significant improvement and a possible board room re-shuffle / takever. I firmly believe that tonight we have lost the dressing room and most importantly the people who pay their money, the fans. I run a business and am self employed and Saturday is my busiest day i used to sacrafice this and employ someone to work for me to take my son home and away to Saints games however will now be doing the sensible option every Saturday and earning a good wage without spending weekends disgusted and out of pocket for watching that dross. Who else feels this way and how many are we set to lose for the rest of the season ??

Okay dokay. Make sure the turnstile doesn't hit your whiney, torn-faced arse on the way out as you head home to watch your League Cup final DVD that you so enjoyed a mere couple of years ago. Goodbye and fúck off. bye1.gif

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There were plenty of world class Scottlsh players in the 60's and 70's who couldn't trap a ball or string together a couple of passes. The difference was back then the club managers played to their strengths. Can you imagine John McCormack, John Greig, Gregor Stephens, Roy Aitken, Walter Kidd, or even big Gordon McQueen playing some of the tippy tappy football of today? Those guys were there to do a job and more often than not they did it well despite the fact the only way they'd do five or more keepy uppy's was if the ball happened to hit them on their face as they lost control.

Scottish Football is a victim though, of poor leadership, bad management and an unhealthy obsession with signing extremely average players, particularly from England. The immediate assumption appears to be that if they can get a regular game from Gateshead they are good enough for the Scottish Premiership. Unfortunately clubs like St Mirren prefer to sign their players off You Tube and the back of an agents tip off, than to actually have scouts out and about in Scotland watching what is going on in the local game. As a result we have a self fulfilling prophesy in that if our transfer market is in players where the only competition is from clubs in the Conference - the quality and standard of our game sits no better than that of the Conference!

As for the original topic - it's a bollocks argument to claim St Mirren are suffering because of strict financial controls imposed by the board. No matter how you carve it up St Mirren have a much larger support than clubs like Dumbarton and Livingston and a far larger cash turnover - yet over the last few weeks the St Mirren side has been outplayed, out fought and out thought by both of those clubs. St Mirren were also damned lucky to win, eventually, against Berwick Rangers and Annan - two more clubs operating on a budget that truly is shoestring compared to St Mirren.

Sadly, despite it being early days, it looks like Murray has been yet another catastrophic managerial appointment by a consortium of board members. This one doesn't even appear to have any contacts anywhere in the English Premiership to help bail him out. And yet still St Mirren continue to charge English Premiership prices at the gate. No wonder customers are being turned off.

Agree with last two paragraphs only.

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Out of my two nephews, the oldest is a Sevco fan (like his old man) and the youngest is a Buddie. I always had a fear that at his age (11), with barely seeing a win in sight for us as he can only make it through to selected games, he could always be swayed to the darkside by his siblings. His old man just took him to his first Sevco game on Sundaythumbdown.gif .

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Perhaps the older one gets, the less patience one has. This is certainly the case with watching Saints I`m afraid. Ive seen them three times this season and one win against Berwick. The players I have seen are not up to the standard and certainly not worth £20 a time to endure.

Unless theres a dramatic improvement - which I cannot foresee- watch the crowds plummet yet again.

It seems Saints boards unerring ability to pick a dud manager has continued.

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Agreed. It's almost as if some folk look for validation to chuck it instead of just doing so and not making a song and dance about it.

Aye, perhaps he'll also post a tear - stained resignation thread on P&B while he's at it.

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Perhaps the older one gets, the less patience one has. This is certainly the case with watching Saints I`m afraid. Ive seen them three times this season and one win against Berwick. The players I have seen are not up to the standard and certainly not worth £20 a time to endure.

Unless theres a dramatic improvement - which I cannot foresee- watch the crowds plummet yet again.

It seems Saints boards unerring ability to pick a dud manager has continued.

Agree on the price issue, and posted as much after the Dumbarton game. The club have made a mistake in not reducing the cost of admission. I think a great deal of slack was cut in the wake of the relegation, but it does feel as though they are taking us for mugs.

Even dropping the entry fee to £17 (and ST cost by the equivalent) would have been a bit more palatable.

All that said, no-one is holding a gun to our heads at the ticket kiosk.

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