Lord Pityme Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Why the outrage at Cameron's announcememt he will "swamp the house of lords" with Tory peers to get his way? The tories have changed boundaries, changed voting process, changed parliamentary terms, introduced two levels of MP.. etc to suit their aims, its just another step in their drive to end democracy. Sad thing is their area till people who think all this is quote .... "Good for the country" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) It's this kind of pish - dividing people into classes and denying them the social mobility to improve their lot - that is the very essence of divide and conquer. What we all learned under Thatcher was that with hard work everyone can improve their lot. Today, thanks to Thatcher, the majority of Brits are homeowners holding fairly substantial assets. Since the 70s we've seen an unprecedented number of self made millionaires come from what used to be called working class backgrounds. I've got absolutely nothing in common with benefit scroungers, neither did my parents or grand parents despite their poverty. They all had pride in themselves and would never have lived with the shame of being reliant on a welfare handout, never mind carried the belief of absolute entitlement that those troughing on welfare have today. Running a successful business has almost nothing to do with hard work. There are a myriad of things which need to go your way to make any business work. Luck plays an enormous part as well. The vast majority of businesses will fail at some point and the overwhelming majority don't make it to profitability on any scale. If you had ever run a business you'd know that. Edited October 27, 2015 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 No-one calling for House of Lords reform tonight then? Yes of course. Why would you think I'd change my mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I've got absolutely nothing in common with benefit scroungers, You're wrong. You are closer to them than any other social group. You have the same whiny "my way or the highway" entitlement complex for a start. Edited October 27, 2015 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Now... If you'd used the above to suggest that Nationalism was another example of divide and conquer, you would have been ok... It's the pish the follows that predictably lets you down.... He won't realise what he's done in that post. I guarantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's not pish Bluto. If you'd followed the lecture on the BBC by Professor Hans Rowling you'd have seen the change illustrated very clearly. Indeed according to him in a global context every single person in the UK is extremely rich - a fact we can see bourne out by the evidence that those who class themselves as poor in the UK today reckon they are poor because they "have to eat breakfast cereal every day", or because they weren't able to buy their little darlings the very latest games console on the day of release. Indeed if we bring this back to the context of child tax credits, we see that those in the House of Lords appear to think that it's right that a family with a household income of £49,500 per annum, be given enough welfare every year to cover each one of their childrens flights to Turkey, Greece or Spain for the families annual holiday. A huge proportion of UK kids will inherit assets from their parents - many as a direct result of Thatchers governments policies. It's unprecedented in UK history and it shows that Conservatism clearly works for the benefit of the working man OK it's national "Help the Thick" day in Scotland so I'll tell you why it's pish. It's pish to make comments about other people engaging in divide and conquer and then in the same post use a phrase like "benefit scrounger" and attempt to show that you are somehow different. Some might call it hypocrisy. Personally I just don't think you have the brain cells capable of engaging in an intelligent conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's not pish Bluto. If you'd followed the lecture on the BBC by Professor Hans Rowling you'd have seen the change illustrated very clearly. Indeed according to him in a global context every single person in the UK is extremely rich - a fact we can see bourne out by the evidence that those who class themselves as poor in the UK today reckon they are poor because they "have to eat breakfast cereal every day", or because they weren't able to buy their little darlings the very latest games console on the day of release. Indeed if we bring this back to the context of child tax credits, we see that those in the House of Lords appear to think that it's right that a family with a household income of £49,500 per annum, be given enough welfare every year to cover each one of their childrens flights to Turkey, Greece or Spain for the families annual holiday. A huge proportion of UK kids will inherit assets from their parents - many as a direct result of Thatchers governments policies. It's unprecedented in UK history and it shows that Conservatism clearly works for the benefit of the working man Of course on a global scale everyone in the UK is "rich" but that is typical fact twisting on your part. On official figures there are hundreds of thousands of children (as well as adults) in this country living in poverty. £1 in the UK will buy you hee haw but £1 in Rwanda would buy you plenty it's hardly a sensible comparison to make. Wealth is all relative to the country in which you live and can never be based on some imaginary global scale no matter what the Swedish nutty professor was saying. I have never ever known anyone to announce they were "poor" because their children "had to eat" cereral - can you provide eveidence of what survey that came from as that is total annecdotal nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I've explained that to him before (the relative poverty stuff) but, no doubt, you will get the same response I did, something along the lines of " Yadda yadda moosh plink plonk blah blah blah" - and he will claim it makes sense. I'm waiting for him to explain how he would manage on the nutty professors UN based poverty threshold of less than $14 per week i.e. less than a tenner a week. To think any sane, educated person could use that figure as the basis of an argument that poverty doesn't exist in the uk and hence benefits are for scroungers is beyond me completely. Classic case of someone totally ignorant on a given subject, watching one TV programme and then self proclaiming to be an expert. In other words typical Dicko ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Running a successful business has almost nothing to do with hard work. There are a myriad of things which need to go your way to make any business work. Luck plays an enormous part as well. The vast majority of businesses will fail at some point and the overwhelming majority don't make it to profitability on any scale. If you had ever run a business you'd know that. Oh dear. I've been there and done that. It was alright. I made a decent amount of money and had an exit strategy that got me a pile of cash before technology overtook me. Luck? Nope. I worked damned hard for what I got often going many days without sleep to earn small amounts of money, particularly in the first two years. I learned a lot from what I did but I wouldn't go back to that period of time. I'm more than happy to log off at the end of my shift and to know that for the next 12 hours I won't have to worry about the phone ringing. I work pretty hard now, but nowhere near as hard as I did back then - and I know that's the case for most REAL businessmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Of course on a global scale everyone in the UK is "rich" but that is typical fact twisting on your part. On official figures there are hundreds of thousands of children (as well as adults) in this country living in poverty. £1 in the UK will buy you hee haw but £1 in Rwanda would buy you plenty it's hardly a sensible comparison to make. Wealth is all relative to the country in which you live and can never be based on some imaginary global scale no matter what the Swedish nutty professor was saying. I have never ever known anyone to announce they were "poor" because their children "had to eat" cereral - can you provide eveidence of what survey that came from as that is total annecdotal nonsense. It was in a video clip on his programme. You should have watched it. Toe-curlingly embarrassing to watch UK people bleat about poverty just before we were shown clips of REAL poverty in Malawi. As for your claim that hundreds of thousands live in poverty in the UK - that's just nonsense. Those kind of figures are based on the calculation that any household taking in less than 40% of the average mean household income is in poverty. If you base your assumptions on that then the only way to get people out of poverty is to bring down the average wage in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 I'm waiting for him to explain how he would manage on the nutty professors UN based poverty threshold of less than $14 per week i.e. less than a tenner a week. To think any sane, educated person could use that figure as the basis of an argument that poverty doesn't exist in the uk and hence benefits are for scroungers is beyond me completely. Classic case of someone totally ignorant on a given subject, watching one TV programme and then self proclaiming to be an expert. In other words typical Dicko ! Professor Hans Rosling is widely regarded as an expert. You....well I've never seen you classed as anything more than a thick twat to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Oh dear. I've been there and done that. It was alright. I made a decent amount of money and had an exit strategy that got me a pile of cash before technology overtook me. Luck? Nope. I worked damned hard for what I got often going many days without sleep to earn small amounts of money, particularly in the first two years. I learned a lot from what I did but I wouldn't go back to that period of time. I'm more than happy to log off at the end of my shift and to know that for the next 12 hours I won't have to worry about the phone ringing. I work pretty hard now, but nowhere near as hard as I did back then - and I know that's the case for most REAL businessmen. you gave up because your business eventually failed. as i said earlier, all the hard work in the world wont protect you from technology overtaking you. like i said, you need more than hard work. thanks for making my case for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 you gave up because your business eventually failed. as i said earlier, all the hard work in the world wont protect you from technology overtaking you. like i said, you need more than hard work. thanks for making my case for me. Rubbish. Your case is that a business can succeed without hard work, but you can't succeed without luck. That's bollocks. My business would never have got off the ground if I hadn't worked so hard in the first place. I knew the technology and I knew that eventually what I was doing would be superseded so right from inception there was an exit plan. I built the business and then I sold it for a price I was happy with. I have no idea if the business ultimately failed. I stopped being interested from the moment I sold it, however the company I sold it to certainly had the ability and the finance to develop it further using the technology that supersedes what I was doing. There is no such thing as luck. You'd think a "top scientist" would have known that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 #thichasfcuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TediousTom Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Say what you like about MM but she'd still gerrit as far as I'm concerned. Edited to add:- I mean that with the greatest of respect to the lady.... Why are you declaring your sexual attraction to Mo Mowlam? Takes all sorts I suppose, takes all sorts indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Your case is that a business can succeed without hard work, but you can't succeed without luck. That's bollocks. It certainly IS bollox which is why I didn't actually say that.I don't mind you making a twat of yourself but you really need to calm down and read what people are saying before busting a nut over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 It certainly IS bollox which is why I didn't actually say that.I don't mind you making a twat of yourself but you really need to calm down and read what people are saying before busting a nut over it. Hence the #thichasfcuk post I made. Don't explain, it would have taken him so long to work that one out that we'd have had peace on here.for the rest of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Rubbish. Your case is that a business can succeed without hard work, but you can't succeed without luck. That's bollocks. My business would never have got off the ground if I hadn't worked so hard in the first place. I knew the technology and I knew that eventually what I was doing would be superseded so right from inception there was an exit plan. I built the business and then I sold it for a price I was happy with. I have no idea if the business ultimately failed. I stopped being interested from the moment I sold it, however the company I sold it to certainly had the ability and the finance to develop it further using the technology that supersedes what I was doing. There is no such thing as luck. You'd think a "top scientist" would have known that. My former brother in law was a sparky until he was made redundant from the Heinz factory near London a good few years ago. he and his mate put in some of their payoff to buy a van and a lock up base to start as self-employed electrical contractors from their base in Kent. In the first couple of days a call came in from a company who had struggled to get someone to do some light-tube changes in the Birmingham area. They took the job just for the sake of something to do and got a couple of call-backs for small works . Within 2 weeks they had a contract to do all of the electrical work on all of that company's premises from Birmingham to the south coast. The company requesting the work was the Natwest bank. The BiL sold his share a few years ago and is now a millionaire But this is not luck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Why are you declaring your sexual attraction to Mo Mowlam? Takes all sorts I suppose, takes all sorts indeed. Wrong thread post Syndrome Tom! Wrong thread post Syndrome indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 It was in a video clip on his programme. You should have watched it. Toe-curlingly embarrassing to watch UK people bleat about poverty just before we were shown clips of REAL poverty in Malawi. As for your claim that hundreds of thousands live in poverty in the UK - that's just nonsense. Those kind of figures are based on the calculation that any household taking in less than 40% of the average mean household income is in poverty. If you base your assumptions on that then the only way to get people out of poverty is to bring down the average wage in the country. Strangely enough your beloved Tory party openly publish figures for those living below the UK poverty line. Again I'll explain Malawi in global terms is poor, the UK rich - easy to grasp that part but £1 in malawi will go a lot further than £1 in the UK and hence poverty cannot be judged on an imaginary global scale. As your prof pointed out the global measure of poverty is earnings below $1.90 per person per day and hence virtualy no one in the UK is in "global" poverty. A minimum wage cannot be knocked but as a means to end poverty in the UK it won't work as there are not enough full time, permanent contract jobs to generate the kind of income required to live hence the need for tax credits. Add in zero hours contracts resulting in huge variations in hours from week to week and it's clear to see why tax credits were brought in. Yes in an ideal world everyone would have a permanent guaranteed hours contract on a proper minimum wage but life outside in the real world just isn't like that and you as well as most Tory mp's appear to live right in the middle of a very small bubble with fingers firmly in your ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Wasting your time, it's sums, he'll never get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 My former brother in law was a sparky until he was made redundant from the Heinz factory near London a good few years ago. he and his mate put in some of their payoff to buy a van and a lock up base to start as self-employed electrical contractors from their base in Kent. In the first couple of days a call came in from a company who had struggled to get someone to do some light-tube changes in the Birmingham area. They took the job just for the sake of something to do and got a couple of call-backs for small works . Within 2 weeks they had a contract to do all of the electrical work on all of that company's premises from Birmingham to the south coast. The company requesting the work was the Natwest bank. The BiL sold his share a few years ago and is now a millionaire But this is not luck? My former brother in law was a sparky until he was made redundant from the Heinz factory near London a good few years ago. he and his mate put in some of their payoff to buy a van and a lock up base to start as self-employed electrical contractors from their base in Kent. In the first couple of days a call came in from a company who had struggled to get someone to do some light-tube changes in the Birmingham area. They took the job just for the sake of something to do and got a couple of call-backs for small works . Within 2 weeks they had a contract to do all of the electrical work on all of that company's premises from Birmingham to the south coast. The company requesting the work was the Natwest bank. The BiL sold his share a few years ago and is now a millionaire But this is not luck? Tesco purchasing Love Street just before the financial crash was not luck ether ! ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) No amount of hard work will persuade people to buy your product. No amount of hard work could have controlled the global meltdown and subsequent worldwide depression. No amount of hard work can stop a global shortage of semiconductors followed by a catastrophic collapse in price overnight which caused those who had bought at peak prices to go bust. No amount of hard work could have prevented the companies involved in vaccuum tube technology from going bust when semiconductors arrived. No amount of hard work could have protected the music industry from the invention of the internet and the subsequent collapse in product value (not that I'm complaining). The list is endless. AND the reason why hard work is not remotely enough to guarantee success? Because in business there are huge numbers of variables which cannot be controlled. To suggest that hard work simply makes these variables bow to your will is plainly stupid. Dickson has never run a business in his life. No successful businessman ever sells up a thriving business and goes back to being a wage slave to another person. Edited October 28, 2015 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 No amount of hard work will persuade people to buy your product. No amount of hard work could have controlled the global meltdown and subsequent worldwide depression. No amount of hard work can stop a global shortage of semiconductors followed by a catastrophic collapse in price overnight which caused those who had bought at peak prices to go bust. No amount of hard work could have prevented the companies involved in vaccuum tube technology from going bust when semiconductors arrived. No amount of hard work could have protected the music industry from the invention of the internet and the subsequent collapse in product value (not that I'm complaining). The list is endless. AND the reason why hard work is not remotely enough to guarantee success? Because in business there are huge numbers of variables which cannot be controlled. To suggest that hard work simply makes these variables bow to your will is plainly stupid. Dickson has never run a business in his life. No successful businessman ever sells up a thriving business and goes back to being a wage slave to another perso Went self employed full of dreams worked my ass off for long hours 7 days a week no social life and very few Saints games Had very littlie money in my own pocket most money seemed to be going out , however never had one ounce of debt , after one year was burnt out with dreams in tatters and reality too the forth. Sold up for what I paid so no money lost. Offshore was my saviour great job. Some are very successful others not while many struggle self employed. Take my hat off to anyone making a go of it themselves. You are right in what you wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Went self employed full of dreams worked my ass off for long hours 7 days a week no social life and very few Saints games Had very littlie money in my own pocket most money seemed to be going out , however never had one ounce of debt , after one year was burnt out with dreams in tatters and reality too the forth. Sold up for what I paid so no money lost. Offshore was my saviour great job. Some are very successful others not while many struggle self employed. Take my hat off to anyone making a go of it themselves. You are right in what you wrote. yep its unbelievably hard. i feel for those farmers who had their entire crop of parsnips rejected by the supermarkets for absolutely no reason whatsoever. no amount of hard work could ever have helped them in the face of unscrupulous bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.