TsuMirren Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I was hoping some of the more positive forum members would be on to give us a right good debate. It's a sign of just how inept Murray is that nobody is in defending him. Murray needed to get over the stifle and counter bullshit weeks ago, even when ahead it's not needed. We're either too deep or too stretched, both of which leave us exposed or just invite teams on. It's almost how football would be played if it was pre-determined like wrestling is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Did a quick straw poll on twitter on Sat night asking fellow buds if they thought it was the end of the line for Murray or if he should be given more time. Worked out in the end that 60% were in favour of him going, 40% said he deserved more time. Given that this was just a couple of hours after the game I thought that level of support for Murray was actually quite surprising. It's all moot anyway, as he won't walk, nor will he be sacked. We are right back to the same place we were this time last season. But how much more time Div? Try the same poll at the end of the month as see what the poll results are if we get papped out the cup and fail to win the next 3 League games this month. 60% to get rid of him now is quite substantial considering its only the first few days in Oct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I was hoping some of the more positive forum members would be on to give us a right good debate. It's a sign of just how inept Murray is that nobody is in defending him. Murray needed to get over the stifle and counter bullshit weeks ago, even when ahead it's not needed. We're either too deep or too stretched, both of which leave us exposed or just invite teams on. It's almost how football would be played if it was pre-determined like wrestling is.Tippy Tappy very slow sideway passing then back to the Goalie made me very unhappy and all my positivity vanished. Hopefully it will return soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 In managerial terms, we are. In squad terms I still feel we're better off. Murray's comments post match on Saturday were telling in two ways. Firstly, he's tried to deflect a huge portion of blame from himself by claiming that some players are 'clearly' not good enough to be at the club. Now, I'd love for him to pinpoint who he thinks aren't good enough as on a man-by-man basis, there's not a lot I'd change. And secondly, he's f**king lying through his teeth AGAIN, by saying they weren't sticking to the instructions. We won't get better than Callum Gallagher, Paul McMullan and Lawrence Shankland as attacking options. All three have shown enough in the first 9 games to suggest they're clearly up to the task at this level. Mallan is inconsistent but clearly talented. Webster has looked good and can't really be apportioned much blame for defensive shortcomings. Goodwin is strolling matches despite Murray all but confirming he didn't fancy him as a player. Baird has made a few mistakes recently since being insanely shunted out to full back a few games back but looked decent before that. Langfield is an improvement on Ridgers. Kelly has looked far better since going back to full-back though had a poor game on Saturday and Watson is unspectacular but steady enough. On the other hand, Thompson hasn't kicked on as much as we'd all hoped this season and unfortunately looks like a man lost again, much as it pains me to say. Howieson is a victim of his own managers ineptitude...constantly out of position at left midfield, was shifted into the middle against Raith in the second half and looked a bit better than his dreadful first half, the less said about Gow the better, Agnew is lightweight but would certainly be a better option than the absolute ghost that is Stuart Carswell. The overriding issue for me certainly isn't the personnel, it's the bizarre and seemingly scattergun manner in which they are being deployed and told to approach matches. If they aren't doing what Murray and Spalding are telling them, then they need to elaborate further! What exactly ARE they being told to do? I saw a team on Saturday who played at a pedestrian pace against a side who were quite happy to fire 10 bodies being the ball and invite said players into space....it was crying out for pace and direct runs at their heart. Yet that didn't happen....now if it was to be believed that it didn't happen in spite of Murray's instructions, then why wasn't the second half any different, why wasn't he down there bawling at them rather than whispering in Spalding's ear!? Why was only one f**king substitution made and none were even sent out to warm up (or even looked like doing so) after Morgan came on if the situation was so desperate in his players defying orders?! The guy is a bullshit artist. Pure and simple. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He lied in the press about Mark Ridgers being first choice, then he stated in the press that Howieson wasn't a left mid before playing him at left mid a week later to yet more ineffectual results and now he's fibbing that his players aren't doing what he and Spalding are telling them to when what wen't down on Saturday was clearly the game plan....right down to when the one planned sub (and no more) would be used. Indeed , if I were a director of the Club I'd certainly pop a long to Ralston during training and just casually listen to what exactly he IS telling the players and then see what happens . Given the cost of getting rid of it would certainly be in my interests to say something if , indeed l thought he was talking shite in public. . As I have already said I'm quite sure that , Murray will indeed get it right . I'm just not sure which division we will be in when it happens or how many we will have left in our Home support. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Agree he won't be saked just now, however if there is no improvement over the season I for one will not renew the season ticket and would think there will be plenty with me. Does not mean that's me finished just won't attend as many games. On that I'm sure the board would be worried for the following season on season ticket sales. Murray is too young to be a manager at our level. Given the age of our senior players don't think it would take much for them to lose respect of Murray when that happens we will be in deep trouble. You leaving again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 But how much more time Div? Try the same poll at the end of the month as see what the poll results are if we get papped out the cup and fail to win the next 3 League games this month. 60% to get rid of him now is quite substantial considering its only the first few days in Oct. Murray avoided a land mine to some extent on Saturday , in as much as, if Aloha had beaten us then there would have been far more calling for his heed. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Murray avoided a land mine to some extent on Saturday , in as much as, if Aloha had beaten us then there would have been far more calling for his heed. . Dont think he has avoided that land mine, i think he has trodden on it, and feels he'll get blown up if he moves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Best post for a long time djchappy. Jackie mac or goodwin next manager. After we lose 1 of the next 2 Either of these two based on track record and experience? Jackie was the tony Mowbray of his tim, inherited a great youth team that came through at the same time.mhe has however signed poorly and United are bottom of the league, is that the cv you are after? Goodwin, no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 Either of these two based on track record and experience? Jackie was the tony Mowbray of his tim, inherited a great youth team that came through at the same time.mhe has however signed poorly and United are bottom of the league, is that the cv you are after? Goodwin, no thanks. McNamara must have signed well at Thistle as they were top of the league we are currently in when he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) No they weren't. They also played in a league with no hibs, no Rangers and three or four part time teams. Edited October 6, 2015 by Sherlock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Either of these two based on track record and experience? Jackie was the tony Mowbray of his tim, inherited a great youth team that came through at the same time.mhe has however signed poorly and United are bottom of the league, is that the cv you are after? Goodwin, no thanks. Jackie Mac did a sterling job at Thistle - that is why Dundee Utd signed him - a clear promotion to a bigger club. Trouble is they tied him into selling his best players and hence lost too much class too quickly. Like us they had too many new players trying to learn to play together. Agree that Mowbray is a dud - Our victory got him the sack! I think what we are really missing is that the Directors have been cutting costs constantly - parting with our best players, as well as selling our 2 best in recent seasons. There are numerous examples, like trying to offload Goodwin, who is probably our strongest performing player this season. The Directors have a track record of signing cheap and dud managers. Teal, TC & their latest is just as poor - we have got what we paid for. The difference is do we keep a dud, so that we don't have to make a pay off? Good teams like Liverpool, Dundee Utd & Motherwell don't mess about - this game is about results and the results Murray and the directors are giving the fans are frankly ****. If we don't win either of our next 2 games - Murray MUST GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Jackie Mac did a sterling job at Thistle - that is why Dundee Utd signed him - a clear promotion to a bigger club. Trouble is they tied him into selling his best players and hence lost too much class too quickly. Like us they had too many new players trying to learn to play together. Agree that Mowbray is a dud - Our victory got him the sack! I think what we are really missing is that the Directors have been cutting costs constantly - parting with our best players, as well as selling our 2 best in recent seasons. There are numerous examples, like trying to offload Goodwin, who is probably our strongest performing player this season. The Directors have a track record of signing cheap and dud managers. Teal, TC & their latest is just as poor - we have got what we paid for. The difference is do we keep a dud, so that we don't have to make a pay off? Good teams like Liverpool, Dundee Utd & Motherwell don't mess about - this game is about results and the results Murray and the directors are giving the fans are frankly ****. If we don't win either of our next 2 games - Murray MUST GO Our biggest issue is we are a club in free fall, turning that around takes a lot more than a new manager and a few new names on the team sheet. It takes time. Bigger clubs like Rangers, hearts, hibs have spent coming into this division and all but one struggled at the start of the season and fell well short of getting promoted. I see no danger of us getting relegated, we have made bad mistakes at crucial times in a game and not taken advantage when we have been on top. Liverpool, Utd, and Motherwell all stuck by there mangers for 1, 2 or even three seasons. We could do the opposite and be a hibs or a Blackpool and change our manager every 5 mins....we know how that ended! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Our biggest issue is we are a club in free fall, turning that around takes a lot more than a new manager and a few new names on the team sheet. It takes time. Eh? It takes time? How much time? How many years do you think customers should accept shite performances for? And how will the adage of time, with the club continuing to lose cheaply week after week, suddenly turn things around for the club? To turn a club in free fall around you need to first make the side difficult to score against, and then get the side scoring more goals than the opposition on a regular basis. If the manager can't organise his side to do this then a new manager is exactly what is needed, and sooner rather than later before the little fragile remnants of confidence amongst the players in the squad depletes any further. St Mirren's biggest issue right now is that whoever is responsible for recruiting managers is f**king shite at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 . We are right back to the same place we were this time last season. If f**king only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieT Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 The recruitment of recent management has once again been that of a costing exercise, to the detriment of the fans. The frustration and restlessness is now apparent all around the ground. Whilst I personally have no real fear re relegation, I'm more shell shocked as to how quickly we've fallen out of play-off hopes. I don't think the management will come good as they are way out of their depth, lacking experience and have shown no sign of being able to adapt in games let alone set the team up properly from the outset. The lights are on but there's nobody home...about as bright as a black-out! Time for change??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 No they weren't. They also played in a league with no hibs, no Rangers and three or four part time teams. But some of those teams he was up against are now in the top flight aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Eh? It takes time? How much time? How many years do you think customers should accept shite performances for? And how will the adage of time, with the club continuing to lose cheaply week after week, suddenly turn things around for the club? To turn a club in free fall around you need to first make the side difficult to score against, and then get the side scoring more goals than the opposition on a regular basis. If the manager can't organise his side to do this then a new manager is exactly what is needed, and sooner rather than later before the little fragile remnants of confidence amongst the players in the squad depletes any further. St Mirren's biggest issue right now is that whoever is responsible for recruiting managers is f**king shite at it. There is a big difference between customers and supporters . Example I have no emotional tie with the Co-op where I purchase groceries but I have an emotional tie with St Mirren who I will always support no matter how shite they are . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 There is a big difference between customers and supporters . Example I have no emotional tie with the Co-op where I purchase groceries but I have an emotional tie with St Mirren who I will always support no matter how shite they are . I agree with that IoBS.........can I ask, out of interest however, is it as a customer or as a supporter that you're not attending the game this Saturday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Doesn't matter if you don't think you are a customer, if you pay for a service, product or information.... Thats exactly what you are. There are plenty of Saints fans around the world who 'Support' the club, but dont buy any of its services. Perhaps you are suggesting if you dont attend games that makes you a supporter, but if you do you are a customer..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desnold Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 In the current state of football in this country, clubs who sign players on one year deals do not have the luxury of time in finding their best formations/attacking partnerships etc. This has to be done behind closed doors in order that when the team is playing for points, they are earning them from the outset. I think a quarter of a season is more than enough time to evaluate the skill set of a manager. To have played all teams in the division once and beaten only one of them spells the end for the manager. Time for him to go. For what it's worth, GT with the players he had, had the team set out better and playing better football, with the addition of Langfield, Webster, Shankland, Carswell I reckon he would have had us in the top two after the first quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 For what it's worth, GT with the players he had, had the team set out better and playing better football, with the addition of Langfield, Webster, Shankland, Carswell I reckon he would have had us in the top two after the first quarter. I disagree. Some of the 'football' played under Teale was brutal. Amazing how quickly some have forgotten 0-5 v Well, 0-3 v County and 0-3 v Thistle. Don't take this as an endorsement of Murray as it is not but I doubt Teale would be doing as well as you think he would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desnold Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I disagree. Some of the 'football' played under Teale was brutal. Amazing how quickly some have forgotten 0-5 v Well, 0-3 v County and 0-3 v Thistle. Don't take this as an endorsement of Murray as it is not but I doubt Teale would be doing as well as you think he would. Teale was playing SPL opposition with arguably a weaker squad. Given time I'm sure he would have turned us around. Played Won Lost Drawn Win ratio GT's record: 23 7 15 1 30.43 IM's record: 12 3 5 4 25.00 Ian Murray has arguably better players available and two of the win's were against lower league opposition in Berwick and Annan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 There are plenty of Saints fans around the world who 'Support' the club, but dont buy any of its services. Perhaps you are suggesting if you dont attend games that makes you a supporter, but if you do you are a customer..? Divide and rule! I like the cut of your jib... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Teale was playing SPL opposition with arguably a weaker squad. Given time I'm sure he would have turned us around. Played Won Lost Drawn Win ratio GT's record: 23 7 15 1 30.43 IM's record: 12 3 5 4 25.00 Ian Murray has arguably better players available and two of the win's were against lower league opposition in Berwick and Annan. It was Teale's defeat percentage that killed it for him. The inability to be tough and dour out draws was a big failing. Also he brought Gow to the club and Arqunt and I have no doubt were he the boss that Reilly would have got a contract. For the avoidance of doubt I am not saying Murray is doing well but I just didn't rate Teale, my opinion no more no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murray street Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) If St Mirren bagged murray, would they not be paying 3 different managers for sitting on their arses? That would be quite a sum of money to be paying out for no return, plus paying for a new manager as well. Edited October 7, 2015 by murray street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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