div Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Message to div & Drew - Time is not on IM's side if we're to avoid this season becoming a write-off. I guess it depends on your expectation level. We lost 17 players in the summer, and we've brought in 11 replacements. I certainly expected more points on the board at this stage but I'm realistic enough to know that a massive churn in the squad can take time to settle and again, for me anyway, I could see tangible signs of that happening on Saturday. Not everyone will agree and that is what football is all about. Only results will persuade the doubters that Murray has what it takes either short, medium or long term. Personally I think we're hopefully on the verge of something decent. Time will tell ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I guess it depends on your expectation level. We lost 17 players in the summer, and we've brought in 11 replacements. I certainly expected more points on the board at this stage but I'm realistic enough to know that a massive churn in the squad can take time to settle and again, for me anyway, I could see tangible signs of that happening on Saturday. Not everyone will agree and that is what football is all about. Only results will persuade the doubters that Murray has what it takes either short, medium or long term. Personally I think we're hopefully on the verge of something decent. Time will tell ! Completely agree, there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Ive not seen any league games this season , so I`m loathe to comment on particular games but results are dreadful so far. Will watch the game on Friday on tv but I am determined that I am not paying £20 to watch a second rate team in a second rate division.Have the board gone mad pricing games at that rate ? Very poor show from Ian Murray so far. Already the play off positions seem a forlorn hope, barring a dramatic improvement. Seems like the unerring ability to choose dud managers is the only constant at Saints these days. That and the inability to win games in front of their own supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I actually thought we lost our shape on Saturday almost immediately after McMullan's departure. The tackle was bad, it certainly could have been a red if you compare it to the yellow to ST for 'persistent fouling'. The daft thing was the Falkirk player already on a yellow made a far worse tackle only 3 minutes before and got let off. I know that sounds like another go at the referees, but it showed up their inconsistencies. I think McMullan's departure created disruption to the set-up and the replacement was not up to the same standard or was asked to play in a position that wasn't ideal, whatever, after Falkirk scored their first goal I said to the guy next to me it would be interesting to see what IM did next as we were on the rack and so something needed changing. Unfortunately whatever tactic he had up his sleeve to try and change things, he left it too late! Yes a pretty awful Saturday afternoon, other than the weather...................... maybe the golf course would have been a better option! Edited September 14, 2015 by The Original 59er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I agree that the first half was excellent in contrast to the second half which is what made the game so disappointing and caused so much ire. I was ambivalent towards Murray's appointment as were most of the guys I hang out with. Not particularly excited but give him a chance was the attitude. And still is for me. My concerns are - the balance of the squad - too many older players and inexperienced players and not enough decent solid pros. - IMHO some poor signings but that must be balanced with some very good signings however as above I do not think the squad is balanced. - some very poor formations. Formations I can live with for a wee while until he sorts out a new squad. But changing to 4-2-4 was a disaster on Saturday resulting in an already overworked midfield being overrun. - some very poor substitutions. I just do not get McMullan's replacement on Sat. Why give a totally inexperienced youth most of a game when there were other more experienced players on the bench? Give the young guy the last 10 mins in a game where we are winning (although he may have to wait for that ). Once he was on you could not take him off so were stuck with him. Shankland was far more impressive when he came on. Morgan was also an option. - the lack of midfield players. We have signed a few but so far none of them have demonstrated much to me. They have shown little bravery and take the easy ball. There is little dig and little flair and a killer pass. Goodwin and Mallan are by far our best with the others trailing behind IMHO. However the first half on Saturday was a huge improvement and gives hope but with the transfer window now closed Murray has got to get more out of a lot of the squad. And learn from his mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Message to div & Drew - Time is not on IM's side if we're to avoid this season becoming a write-off. that's a strange comment given you were wanting Thompson in most of last season. Not my choice though he has my support. Murray must be for the long term let's be honest anyone who thinks we can bounce straight back up should seek mental health help immediately Edited September 14, 2015 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've just checked the league table, and after a very disappointing start to the season, we're 4 points off 4th place. So - nothings decided yet but I've followed us for enough seasons to know that once a pattern has been set it's easier for guys like yourself to come on a forum and say we can change it than for the manager & the team to actually do so. I guess it depends on your expectation level. We lost 17 players in the summer, and we've brought in 11 replacements. I certainly expected more points on the board at this stage but I'm realistic enough to know that a massive churn in the squad can take time to settle and again, for me anyway, I could see tangible signs of that happening on Saturday. Not everyone will agree and that is what football is all about. Only results will persuade the doubters that Murray has what it takes either short, medium or long term. Personally I think we're hopefully on the verge of something decent. Time will tell ! Short term contracts and large turnovers are the name of the game for diddy clubs like ourselves nowadays - Murray was given a decent budget for this level but didn't hit the ground running. He was able to strengthen the squad before the window closed so it's time to start winning matches on a more regular basis. Outside of Hibs and Newco I expect us to win more games than we lose at this level. Time will indeed tell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 The problem IBS is we have more money this season that other other season we will have in the Championship due to the parachute payment and TV money from the Buns. When they get promoted it will by bye-bye to TV coverage in the Championship. And with players now signing one year contracts Clubs cannot build for the future as we do not offer long term contracts and young players won't accept them. Unless we are keeping a wad of cash back for next season's effort this season we should be hoping to make a fist of it and try and compete with Hibs even if that is a big ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I'm reading that people feel Shankland should have come on for McMullan. How would that have worked? Who would have played wide right? For me, Shankland should have come on for Thompson after an hour. Morgan should have come on for McMullan. Edited September 14, 2015 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Short term contracts and large turnovers are the name of the game for diddy clubs like ourselves nowadays - Murray was given a decent budget for this level but didn't hit the ground running. He was able to strengthen the squad before the window closed so it's time to start winning matches on a more regular basis. Outside of Hibs and Newco I expect us to win more games than we lose at this level. Time will indeed tell! Yes that is a fair point, there is going to be squad churn every season these days at a club like ours. The squad of players IS a good one in my opinion. The likes of Langfield, Watson, Webster, Gallagher, Mallan, Thompson and Shankland would all get a start for most of the teams in the division. There is just something not quite right with the balance, particularly in the middle of the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Yes that is a fair point, there is going to be squad churn every season these days at a club like ours. The squad of players IS a good one in my opinion. The likes of Langfield, Watson, Webster, Gallagher, Mallan, Thompson and Shankland would all get a start for most of the teams in the division. There is just something not quite right with the balance, particularly in the middle of the park. We have too few options in wide areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 For me Drew we started with a 4-2-3-1. When McMullan went off I would have changed it to 4-4-2 with Shankland playing off Thomson. Morgan was a better option than the young guy but Shankland was a better option than both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 So - nothings decided yet but I've followed us for enough seasons to know that once a pattern has been set it's easier for guys like yourself to come on a forum and say we can change it than for the manager & the team to actually do so. I don't know what a 'guy like yourself' is, other than a fan with a different opinion about how bad or otherwise things are just now. Last season, it was clear from the first few games that we were in trouble. If we hadn't signed Webster, Langfield and Shankland, I'd be very worried just now. I just happen to think I've seen signs that give me some hope. In terms of the midfield, I don't think Agnew suits being a sitter beside Goodwin. And while Carswell is out, we don't have anyone that would naturally fit that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 that's a strange comment given you were wanting Thompson in most of last season. Not my choice though he has my support. Murray must be for the long term let's be honest anyone who thinks we can bounce straight back up should seek mental health help immediately I now see the wisdom of your posts... Because both Murray and Gilmour said we should be aiming to 'bounce straight back up'. You are a cunning old linguist you..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 that's a strange comment given you were wanting Thompson in most of last season. Not my choice though he has my support. Murray must be for the long term let's be honest anyone who thinks we can bounce straight back up should seek mental health help immediately I wanted Steve Aitken but was happy with Murray. Even those posters defending Murray concede it been a disappointing start so I find it hard to see why my post has generated so many replies. I'm not one of these "cut my nose off to spite my face" fans who seem to revel in poor results but I think you have to acknowledge that we're below where you'd expect a club with our resources to be in this division and that if results don't improve shortly then the season will be a write off. Anyway real-lifeTM is about to take over so I'll look back in again tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 For me Drew we started with a 4-2-3-1. When McMullan went off I would have changed it to 4-4-2 with Shankland playing off Thomson. Morgan was a better option than the young guy but Shankland was a better option than both. Who would have played wide right, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I wanted Steve Aitken but was happy with Murray. Even those posters defending Murray concede it been a disappointing start so I find it hard to see why my post has generated so many replies. I'm not one of these "cut my nose off to spite my face" fans who seem to revel in poor results but I think you have to acknowledge that we're below where you'd expect a club with our resources to be in this division and that if results don't improve shortly then the season will be a write off. Anyway real-lifeTM is about to take over so I'll look back in again tomorrow. lol real life TV. Nothing wrong with your opinion Colin. What I have seen from the QOS game ad first half of the Falkirk game was good. However the changes made in the second half worries me regarding Murray's tactics. Still he is a young manager who openly admits to learning from mistakes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 We have too few options in wide areas. Yes I think that is fair comment. Gallagher I am sure did not envisage he would be playing wide left, but he did very well on Saturday for me. McMullan is great on the right but he's going to get kicked all over the place this season and will inevitably spend some time out injured as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Who would have played wide right, though? Playing 4-4-2 we use a midfield diamond with the full backs overlapping. Play is more through the middle. Goodwin in front of the back four with Agnew to the left Mallan to the right and Gallagher playing behind the front two (which I think would have suited him better). McMullan played as an out and out winger on sat on the right but Gallacher was playing further in on the left - in fact almost through the middle a lot of the time. Kelly was the one getting the crosses in from the left. I like Morgan and he could have come on for McMullan but Shankland for me was the better option. Opinions, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Shankland made a difference in the final third in his brief appearance on Saturday. Everything sticks to him, he's very skillful and his pass to put Thommo in right before Falkirk's goal was sublime. I'd be starting him on Friday night, I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Will Murray come good? Hmm. Well, on the plus side, on paper, he has assembled what looks like a decent squad for competing with the opposition in this division, outwith the Sevco Franchise who look to have greatly improved under the Breadman. That's the good part. On the flip side - our home record remains a pitiful disgrace. He appears to have no 'philosophy', no clear style, no clear plan, no clear idea of his best XI or where to play some of them. We never even got new manager bounce, he appears unable to change games by smart substitutions, he appears unable to inspire from the touchline, he appears to think playing Thommo up top for 90 mins running around alone is a good idea. He never leaves anyone up at corners, and frankly, doesn't seem able to do what Houston did at H/T on Saturday. So, from where I'm sitting, my response now, having watched us a fair few times, to the question 'Will Murray Come Good' is this - he fcuking better come good, because so far, this is the same old shite. As an aside, once anyone figures out what Spalding brings to the table, can someone PM me the answer to that one? Not a Lovestreet PM though. Ta. Edited September 14, 2015 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've steered clear of the forums since Saturday as I kind of knew what I would find. I missed the QoS game as I was away but apart from that I've been to every game this season to date and on Saturday, for me anyway, the performance was night and day to what I had seen previously. Sure we lost the game, we capitulated badly in the second half, and it was another defeat and another disappointing day at home......... The upside for me though was that we finally started looking like a team. The performance for the first 45 minutes was very good, completely solid base with plenty of attacking threat. We were well worthy of the two goal lead and that was despite losing McMullan through a ridiculous challenge that could easily have been a red. The second half I would concede was very disappointing but it really is very fine lines we are dealing with. A couple of good chances for us just didn't quite fall kindly to us, and then we totally gift them a penalty at 2-1 just when we looked like re-gaining control of the game. It was a boot in the balls we didn't really recover from, however reflecting on the game on Saturday I definitely felt there were some real positives to take into the game on Friday. We must stop shooting ourselves in the foot. The three penalties we have lost at home were all stone wallers, and combined have cost us at least five points just looking at the final scores. If we can keep on the front foot and keep scoring goals (we have only failed to score once this season, ironically on a day we also managed a rare clean sheet outselves) then personally I think we are in for a reasonable league campaign and 3rd or 4th is far from beyond us. Maybe I'm just a happy clapper, but I genuinley don't share the same doom and gloom as many others do. Not yet anyway. Agree wholeheartedly. Couldn't believe we lost that. Lots of positives, could have been 3 or 4 up at half time and they couldn't have complained. The manager needs to stop this habit of getting us sitting deep when ahead in the game. We were leading because we were the better team - why try to sit on the lead and hit them on the counter? Which was what we looked to have started the second half doing. Plenty of positives for me, and I'm very hopeful we'll win on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 One of the biggest worries for me is that the entire team is poor at tackling. Jim Goodwin is terrified to tackle and the rest don't know how to. Hence all the penalties and fouls in dangerous areas. Scott Agnew relies 100% on nicking the ball and is caught out too often. It was interesting also to see a Falkirk player deliver a flying elbow on Goodwin without so much as a word from the ref. So irritating that refs seem to go completely by reputation where he is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 It was interesting also to see a Falkirk player deliver a flying elbow on Goodwin without so much as a word from the ref. So irritating that refs seem to go completely by reputation where he is concerned. It was interesting also to see a Falkirk player deliver a flying elbow on Goodwin without so much as a word from the ref. So irritating that refs seem to go completely by reputation where he is concerned. Agreed. The referees have made their mind up about Jim before the game starts. Add to the mix the shocking acting and antics of the opposition and the guy can't function properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 If the manager signs said fud who was less than impressive for him at his last club, then who else other than the manager should you blame? The player apologised to the rest of the team for his reckless challenge so he is to blame, not the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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