pod Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Angew isn't very good, there is a reason why he has been at dumbarton for so long. We're in the same division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Anyone who thinks we can bounce straight back should seek mental help???? Mmmmm With the 3rd biggest wage budget we should certainly be aiming for the play offs. And once you are in the plays offs the anything can happen. The hardest tests in first round of plays offs would Hibs or Falkirk and the final could be against the likes of Ross County, Partick or Kilmarnock. IMO, its those who DON'T think we should be aiming to go straight back up who should seek mental help! you need to be winning games now if you want success in the play-offs. amassing the points and being safe in a play-off spot would give us the opportunity to be a little tactical in resting players during the last third of the season. With some older players in the side that will be invaluable. we also need to be attracting a couple of players in the next window and getting clear water in 2nd or 3rd place will help no end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan4ever Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I am sorry buy I do not rate murray and co. I think this is another managerial mistake. Plrade prove me wrong but I am female and have a better tactical football mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltcoatsbuddie Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I cant think of 1 tactical change murray has made since he became our manager looks to me like a plan a kind of guy who doesn't get that he maybe has to change if its not working,saturday was a prime example,houston knew he had to change at half time and did so accordingly ,while murray and his assistant stood and whispered into each others ears while doing nothing,pretty much the very same as happened at Dumfries the week before but fortunately qos were not very clinical ,but our board will plod along like last year then realise that 7/8 in championship isn't what we wanted but hey maybe we will be better next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I think they would be happy to finnish 7th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripey Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I cant think of 1 tactical change murray has made since he became our manager looks to me like a plan a kind of guy who doesn't get that he maybe has to change if its not working,saturday was a prime example,houston knew he had to change at half time and did so accordingly ,while murray and his assistant stood and whispered into each others ears while doing nothing,pretty much the very same as happened at Dumfries the week before but fortunately qos were not very clinical ,but our board will plod along like last year then realise that 7/8 in championship isn't what we wanted but hey maybe we will be better next season On this occasion I really do not think that we can attach blame to the BOD,s in anyway for appointing Ian Murray as Manager. The vast majority of St.Mirren fans wanted a complete clear out of the old guard and someone that had no connections with the club appointed as Manager, we fans got our wish to an extent with the appointment of Murray. So far he has not, tactically wise, given us what is badly needed, namely a decent midfield dynamo but then again we have not yet reached the first quarter of the season. On paper we have almost got a good team, on the park we are dire. The board in the past have got things wrong and it has cost them dearly, however we are not a club that has massive debt or an endless pot of gold, so what's the answer? I do not know, do you? by the way I think you are correct the BOD,s will plod on. At this stage in the season there is not much else they can do. The only thing in my own opinion that I would say that would cause further disruption is sacking Ian Murray at this stage anyway. Edited September 16, 2015 by stripey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltcoatsbuddie Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) On this occasion I really do not think that we can attach blame to the BOD,s in anyway for appointing Ian Murray as Manager. The vast majority of St.Mirren fans wanted a complete clear out of the old guard and someone that had no connections with the club appointed as Manager, we fans got our wish to an extent with the appointment of Murray. So far he has not, tactically wise, given us what is badly needed, namely a decent midfield dynamo but then again we have not yet reached the first quarter of the season. On paper we have almost got a good team, on the park we are dire. The board in the past have got things wrong and it has cost them dearly, however we are not a club that has massive debt or an endless pot of gold, so what's the answer? I do not know, do you? by the way I think you are correct the BOD,s will plod on. At this stage in the season there is not much else they can do. The only thing in my own opinion that I would say that would cause further disruption is sacking Ian Murray at this stage anyway. I didn't say sack him stripey,and I agree with you our squad on paper looks better than our league position ,but im sure we were saying the same in the tommy craig debacle but im saying like then it just doesn't seem to be clicking and after a few months murray must take responsibility for it ,its his team ,also agnew and carswell have not added anything to our midfield and the young guys will be inconsistent, we will have better results now and again but cant see us being in top 4 which would be major failure imo Edited September 16, 2015 by saltcoatsbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripey Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I didn't say sack him stripey,and I agree with you our squad on paper looks better than our league position ,but im sure we were saying the same in the tommy craig debacle but im saying like then it just doesn't seem to be clicking and after a few months murray must take responsibility for it ,its his team ,also agnew and carswell have not added anything to our midfield and the young guys will be inconsistent, we will have better results now and again but cant see us being in top 4 which would be major failure imo For by the last bit of your post I agree with what you state. I do not see us not getting into the top four as failure. Like yourself I would like to see us in the top four however this season, after the way its gone this season so far, I would predict 5th, but with St.Mirren you just never know. Finally I apologise for taking your post the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldo_j Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think Friday night is a big game for Murray. We really need to get our first win at home and turning our early domination in to 3 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 you need to be winning games now if you want success in the play-offs. amassing the points and being safe in a play-off spot would give us the opportunity to be a little tactical in resting players during the last third of the season. With some older players in the side that will be invaluable. we also need to be attracting a couple of players in the next window and getting clear water in 2nd or 3rd place will help no end I disagree entirely. Nothing worse than qualifying for the playoffs early on, taking the foot off the gas and then getting caught cold when the playoffs begin. Far better to come on to a run of form in the final third of the season and take that into the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I disagree entirely. Nothing worse than qualifying for the playoffs early on, taking the foot off the gas and then getting caught cold when the playoffs begin. Far better to come on to a run of form in the final third of the season and take that into the playoffs. i don't think there is much in the way of science behind either viewpoint, I would rather we went into a playoff situation with some time to plan and execute. I think every manager would take what they could get but would prefer to be in early and comfortably. That would take a sustained period of good form without taking the foot off the gas, would it not? Nothing worse than busting a gut to catch up on the final hurdle and finding the other guy has had time to gather a second wind, in fact, i can think of loads of things there is nothing worse than. How would you feel if you had a say as to who grabbed the last 2 spots? Now that would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Minimum I expect this year is a playoff. If we don't achieve that I would question the management. If we are to be successful we can't accept not making the playoffs. It's ridiculous that we are 8th in a division with teams that would absolutely kill for our squad. If Mr murray can't get this squad into the top four then I would be very worried that he would do any better the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrie82 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 This home form is also a big worry. Can we not win at home? Three defeats already is a joke. It needs to change and now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) This home form is also a big worry. Can we not win at home? Three defeats already is a joke. It needs to change and now Four sentences in ONE post? You could easily have added another three just by splitting them up a bit... Edited September 17, 2015 by bluto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Four sentences in ONE post? You could easily have added another three just by splitting them up a bit... lay off, he is clearly a former telegraph operator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 lay off, he is clearly a former telegraph operator OK Fair do's... He could have been a Telegraph reader.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambiebud Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 What will all the posters who said i quote "it will do us good to get relegated" last season make of more than one season out of the Prem, or worse still dropping again? Will,that be even better for the clubs future? I hold my hands up as I was one of those. Years of flirting with relegation was becoming tedious and frankly boring. Football is an entertainment and I thought that watching a team, with a relatively big budget and support, in a lower league, would be more entertaining. Maybe winning more than losing. Who knows, it may still turn out that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 OK Fair do's... He could have been a Telegraph reader.... time to STOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I hold my hands up as I was one of those. Years of flirting with relegation was becoming tedious and frankly boring. Football is an entertainment and I thought that watching a team, with a relatively big budget and support, in a lower league, would be more entertaining. Maybe winning more than losing. Who knows, it may still turn out that way I thought that might be the case when we were relegated back in the early 90s. A 7-0 thrashing in our first game quickly dispelled that myth. After that first season we spent most of the rest of the time fighting against relegation to the 3rd tier. And after relegation in 00/01 we spent the first 3 seasons back down in relegation dog fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I didn't say sack him stripey,and I agree with you our squad on paper looks better than our league position ,but im sure we were saying the same in the tommy craig debacle but im saying like then it just doesn't seem to be clicking and after a few months murray must take responsibility for it ,its his team ,also agnew and carswell have not added anything to our midfield and the young guys will be inconsistent, we will have better results now and again but cant see us being in top 4 which would be major failure imo Did anyone really think Craig's squad was that strong? There was a brief run around this time last year where we looked vaguely competent but that aside it was obvious they weren't up to it. The current squad on paper is very good for this level. Langfield and Webster could easily be playing for a bottom six team in the Premiership and there's a few others who have the potential to cut it in the top flight. If you could do some hypothetical match up I'd be fairly confident the current team would easily see off last season's mob - the presence of McLean is the only thing that makes me question that. Doubts started creeping into my mind after last week's second half, however I'm still fairly sure things will come together. There's not always an instant turnaround. Examples can be found to back up pretty much any argument but l don't think Partick Thistle were particularly good in McNamara's first season but it all came together in year two before he went to United. You can also throw in Danny Lennon's first season with us or Brendan Rodgers first season at Liverpool before they almost won the league. And no doubt there are various examples of where a manager has come in and instantly had his team flying - Michael Laudrup at Swansea springs to mind. No two situations are the same and we need to get out of this ridiculous scenario where fans are calling for the manager to go, as some folk on here are, in mid September. We've had it for the last two years (I was as guilty of it as anyone) so let's have a bit of stability. Besides, the length of the contract means Murray is going nowhere. I think the earliest he'll be booted is if we fail to make the play-offs. No one can claim it's been a good start to the season but neither is it time for panic stations. There's as much chance of us going down as there is of Chelsea being relegated - and they currently have less points than us! Admittedly I'm probably less critical because I was a fan of the appointment - had we gone for someone I wasn't in favour of I'd probably be as seething/raging/whatever as some of the people on here. I disagree entirely. Nothing worse than qualifying for the playoffs early on, taking the foot off the gas and then getting caught cold when the playoffs begin. Far better to come on to a run of form in the final third of the season and take that into the playoffs. It's hard to get the balance right. I'd say in the English play-offs it's better to go on a late run and charge in with momentum rather than be in a clear third and switch off as there's no real benefit to finishing third or sixth. However, with the weird set-up we have finishing third means you get one game less which is a definite advantage, no matter how you got there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Whatever way you look at it, if we win tomorrow night then 6 out of 9 points from the last 3 games is a total we'd probably have taken prior to the QOS game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 . No one can claim it's been a good start to the season but neither is it time for panic stations. There's as much chance of us going down as there is of Chelsea being relegated - and they currently have less points than us! Admittedly I'm probably less critical because I was a fan of the appointment - had we gone for someone I wasn't in favour of I'd probably be as seething/raging/whatever as some of the people on here. I really DON'T mean to be critical, but i struggle with the comparisons between us and some of the richest clubs in the world. Last month we were told not to panic about the squad as Man city still had players to sign and today it is us being on a par with Chelsea as far as relegation prospects go. Really? There is no sign of us being relegated YET, but that could change with just a couple more bad results and if we fail to win a home game before the turn of the season. Are you telling me there is NO chance of that? Last year we had to sell McLean for buttons so that we could pay wages, has that difficulty receded? If it has it could well be back if we are out of the cup after one tie and hovering in the bottom three. There is no more family silver to sell and we could well lose all the short-term contractors if that happens. Looking just a little behind the facade, we are close to a precarious position I'm not panicking, but I'm not deluded either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Whatever way you look at it, if we win tomorrow night then 6 out of 9 points from the last 3 games is a total we'd probably have taken prior to the QOS game. given the opposition, i considered anything less than 7 points as being a problem for us i think we will win on Friday, but the Falkirk result was a missed opportunity. it gives hope to them and others that they can best us. We need to dispel that notion pronto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I really DON'T mean to be critical, but i struggle with the comparisons between us and some of the richest clubs in the world. Last month we were told not to panic about the squad as Man city still had players to sign and today it is us being on a par with Chelsea as far as relegation prospects go. Really? There is no sign of us being relegated YET, but that could change with just a couple more bad results and if we fail to win a home game before the turn of the season. Are you telling me there is NO chance of that? Last year we had to sell McLean for buttons so that we could pay wages, has that difficulty receded? If it has it could well be back if we are out of the cup after one tie and hovering in the bottom three. There is no more family silver to sell and we could well lose all the short-term contractors if that happens. Looking just a little behind the facade, we are close to a precarious position I'm not panicking, but I'm not deluded either I'm not panicking either. I only mentioned Chelsea because they were the first example of a team in a false league position I could think of. I accept their wealth makes it far more likely (almost certain) they'll get out of it but I'm sure if I could be bothered I could find examples of teams of similar size and budget to ourselves who had poor starts to the season and were in a false position before it all came good. Football fans are like that, we find any example, no matter how ridiculous, to back up our point. Every time we've signed some diddy striker from the English lower leagues it's a race to be first to mention Billy Mckay, who history suggests is the exception that proves the rule. Two years ago I didn't have confidence in Lennon keeping us up and I was wrong. Last year I was certain we were going down thanks to Craig and I was right. The Falkirk game last week makes me less confident we'll make the play-offs and nwhile I may have been a bit overconfident in my previous post, I'm fairly sure we wouldn't be relegated. The mood swings on here after the last few games sums up how ridiculous football fans and forums are. People need to realise the Queen of the South game didn't make Murray the messiah and the Falkirk game didn't make him a very naughty boy. Edited September 17, 2015 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 in and of themselves, the falkirk and QOS games don't mean a lot. it's more about the patterns they fit into and we need a different pattern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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