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cockles1987

Tories Shown Their Real Colours

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And with respect far too many people who voted No simply believed that this is what the SNP were saying without realising the only people saying this were the BT parties.

At no point did the SNP or any SNP supporter make that claim.

You are welcome to prove it of course and watch me swallow my words.

Just spotted this. As you know I've had you on ignore but I see some of your stuff on my phone. Have to admit there is evidence of some humanity nowadays in some of your posts. That used to be lacking. There's even signs of an embryonic sense of humour. Your family and carers must be pleased.

My complaint with everything the SNP said before the vote related solely to economics. Economics and damned nearly nothing else decides who wins or loses elections or referanda when they relate to a country's future. The SNP's economic forecasts have already been demostrated to have been a crock of shit which minions like me pointed out time after time in the run up to the vote. But I feel I don't want to add anything else. You lost. Live with it. It is hard to be a good loser. As a St.Mirren fan you should have learned by now. But I will turn your point round. You presumably are au fait with everything Wee Eck said in relation to economics. Can you show me any statement of his where he warned the populace to be prepared to tighten their belts because there will be a rocky ride ahead? I bet you can't because that would have been political suicide. Which he almost comitted anyway. I think that the population of Scotland wasn't fooled despite the fact that there is a significant percentage of it which would always vote for independence for 'Scots wha hae' reasons and simple hatred. The last time I said that I got shot down and was told no such factions existed. Yawn.

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They do exist. Rick, but they are a minority. Most converts to Yes were pissed off with the fact that Labour had become Tory. Corbyn could have a major impact on them, disappointingly for me because England will never elect him. The only way Scotland will ever get a leader with his values will be through independence. And that's the message that the pro-independence campaign needs to hammer home if we're ever going to cross the line. And another reason for waiting until after the next GE demonstrating that he'll never be electable in England and that his values will never lead the UK.

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I have just watched the last hour or two of the Labour Party election results announcements.

Quite liked the dep leader, Tom Watson's, speech. Low key, decent, honest (it seemed) but limited as he perhaps still didnae know to whom he would be deputy.

Corbyn's speech reminded me of DL, with the unremitting repetition not of y'know but of 'passionate'. He said many decent, moral things and I could not disagree. The kind of speech you want from someone with a vision a plan....

Like the SNP, however, he will soon rock up against the hard rock of reality... Economics...

...and of his electoral base. In London. And in his own party.

Already the losers and their supporters are making their demands for him to Not Be as different as his promise made him out to be.

What corners will be cut, what concessions will be made to render the party as vacuous and selfish as the Tories?

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You credit him with too much intelligence by placing him there, he's in a very small, select, genus, all if his own. Edited by salmonbuddie

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I have just watched the last hour or two of the Labour Party election results announcements.

Quite liked the dep leader, Tom Watson's, speech. Low key, decent, honest (it seemed) but limited as he perhaps still didnae know to whom he would be deputy.

Corbyn's speech reminded me of DL, with the unremitting repetition not of y'know but of 'passionate'. He said many decent, moral things and I could not disagree. The kind of speech you want from someone with a vision a plan....

Like the SNP, however, he will soon rock up against the hard rock of reality... Economics...

...and of his electoral base. In London. And in his own party.

Already the losers and their supporters are making their demands for him to Not Be as different as his promise made him out to be.

What corners will be cut, what concessions will be made to render the party as vacuous and selfish as the Tories?

And that, as I alluded to earlier, is what (I hope!) will eventually lead to independence for Scotland. Edited by salmonbuddie

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Just spotted this. As you know I've had you on ignore but I see some of your stuff on my phone. Have to admit there is evidence of some humanity nowadays in some of your posts. That used to be lacking. There's even signs of an embryonic sense of humour. Your family and carers must be pleased.

WTF lol.gif

I didn't read the rest of it TBH. Sounded like the usual SNP-bad pish to me.

I'll leave others to talk to you.

Keep me on ignore. We both win that way.

Edited by oaksoft

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Hmm, it looks to me like the National Socialists on this thread have run out of steam. They've got no new ideas and all they do is simply regurgitate each others rather stale slogans. Along side their attempts to bully and intimidate it's a pattern that is all too familiar around their ilk.

Yet today, at the start of the first anniversary of their humiliating defeat in the referendum, they've just been completely outflanked by the Labour Party. Just think how hollow Alex Salmonds praise of the xenophobic and homophobic Vladamir Putin, Salmonds pleas for the UK to leave Slobodan Milosevic to do his thing, and his Justice Ministers cuddling up to Muammur Gadafi whilst releasing the worlds biggest convicted mass murderer will look to those lunatic activists when compared with those Jeremy Corbyn like to call "friends". Indeed the SNP look positively moderate now that Labour have taken a massive shunt back to the 1980's with Corbyn and Watson becoming the new Scargill and McGaghey. Who'd have thought that a populist political establishment would ever appoint a leader who openly admits to supporting the kind of organisations that would stone to death a woman for having the affront to be a rape victim.

Prior to the General Election the Conservatives worried about their vote being split as their more radical brethren to the right, UKIP, threatened to split their votes. In the end, despite a massive upsurge in support for UKIP the Conservatives managed to increase their power and numbers in government. However now, perhaps more than ever before, we see the left wing vote torn asunder with the more "moderate" Nicola Sturgeon going to have to go cap in hand to Corbyn to seek support for the Scottish Government using it's tax varying powers to offer tax cut deals to the likes of Amazon.whilst finding that an alliance to scrap Trident might mean Sturgeon having to accept the closure of Faslane as a military base altogether as Corbyn proposes to "retrain" the military use their skills in a more peaceful manner. There's now a three way fight for votes to the left of Scottish politics, and incredibly it's the Greens that look like the most moderate, sane, liberal and credible option.

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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WTF lol.gif

I didn't read the rest of it TBH. Sounded like the usual SNP-bad pish to me.

I'll leave others to talk to you.

Keep me on ignore. We both win that way.

Believe it or not my post was intended to be moderately friendly and my opening remarks were tongue in cheek. I don't really think you have carers but your response makes me wonder if I touched a raw nerve. Now, work out for yourself whether you think I'm being serious.

I've replied only to counter your SNP-bad remark. Keep that for Dicko. I've never said the SNP are bad. I have said naive but the worrying thing is that they aren't naive but are presenting a future for Scotland which they know well is not affordable. You along with others don't care. You want independence at any cost and so do Sturgeon and Wee Eck. An independent Scotland will survive but without the beneficence of RUK they would struggle. Their sums don't add up. And what will the party situation be in an independent Scotland? Labour almost doesn't exist and yesterday's election result could make Churchill's wilderness years seem like a long weekend. No, there are too many unanswered questions but of course I have no right to ask them. I'm beyond the pale. Appropriate,I suppose, because I do live in Ireland. And talking about Ireland, an independent Scotland, when Angela Merkel says 'Shit', like Eire will only be able to ask 'OK, where?' No veto of any nature. Giving up the UK to suck EU ass even harder. You would need to.

Another problem for your party is that although you have brains at the top, quite a number of your MP's are ragtag and bobtail and you and your leadership know it. Thank God George Osborne still has a hold on the purse strings.

Right, game over. SNP-good. Everybody else bad. Will just add that I don't particularly like any party but once they are in power, I always hope they get it right. I never want to see a government f**k up so 'my' party can get in. That's if I had a party.

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For reasons I've stated before, Rick, I don't think Scots who have chosen to live furth of Scotland should have a vote. That doesn't mean they can't ask questions or that they don't deserve answers to those questions. Challenge is good!

I don't accept that Scotland can't afford independence, it's my firm belief, and has been fir decades, that we can support ourselves even without the oil revenues. Bear in mind that much of Scotland's business income/profit is included in companies' UK reports which don't break down into detail where the money has been generated. There's more money there than they're letting on about. Don't blame them, I can understand why, but you do need to look beyond the bare statistics.

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Believe it or not my post was intended to be moderately friendly and my opening remarks were tongue in cheek. I don't really think you have carers but your response makes me wonder if I touched a raw nerve. Now, work out for yourself whether you think I'm being serious.

I've replied only to counter your SNP-bad remark. Keep that for Dicko. I've never said the SNP are bad. I have said naive but the worrying thing is that they aren't naive but are presenting a future for Scotland which they know well is not affordable. You along with others don't care. You want independence at any cost and so do Sturgeon and Wee Eck. An independent Scotland will survive but without the beneficence of RUK they would struggle. Their sums don't add up. And what will the party situation be in an independent Scotland? Labour almost doesn't exist and yesterday's election result could make Churchill's wilderness years seem like a long weekend. No, there are too many unanswered questions but of course I have no right to ask them. I'm beyond the pale. Appropriate,I suppose, because I do live in Ireland. And talking about Ireland, an independent Scotland, when Angela Merkel says 'Shit', like Eire will only be able to ask 'OK, where?' No veto of any nature. Giving up the UK to suck EU ass even harder. You would need to.

Another problem for your party is that although you have brains at the top, quite a number of your MP's are ragtag and bobtail and you and your leadership know it. Thank God George Osborne still has a hold on the purse strings.

Right, game over. SNP-good. Everybody else bad. Will just add that I don't particularly like any party but once they are in power, I always hope they get it right. I never want to see a government f**k up so 'my' party can get in. That's if I had a party.

Not even on your birthday? That makes me sad! :(

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Not even on your birthday? That makes me sad! sad.png

Now that's a sore point. I had the misfortune to be born on New Year's Day 1947. Only daft women are coy about their age. Folk of around my age and I'm sure younger suffer having our birthdays so near Christmas. When I were a lad, things were tough in post-war Britain. Not a lot of money around. (I don't actually remember but I still hear it said) So for starters it was quite common to get one present that was meant to cover Xmas and birthday. My parents didn't do it but some folk did. Then after the age of about 9 or 10 I spent part of my birthday either at Love Street or Rugby Park. Sometimes wur team gave me a birthday win. When I was old enough to go first-footing (12), and then all the years until I got married, some drunken sod remembered it was my birthday, usually about 4 o'clock in the morning. And some other bum decided it would be a big laugh to give me my nips and dumps. (Is it still called that?) F**king hilarious. So whatever you do, don't mention my birthday. Or the war.

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For reasons I've stated before, Rick, I don't think Scots who have chosen to live furth of Scotland should have a vote. That doesn't mean they can't ask questions or that they don't deserve answers to those questions. Challenge is good!

I don't accept that Scotland can't afford independence, it's my firm belief, and has been fir decades, that we can support ourselves even without the oil revenues. Bear in mind that much of Scotland's business income/profit is included in companies' UK reports which don't break down into detail where the money has been generated. There's more money there than they're letting on about. Don't blame them, I can understand why, but you do need to look beyond the bare statistics.

I accept that you have always been open to debate but as you know a fair number of us on the forum don't live in Scotland and during the debate leading up to the vote a few of us who had the temerity to raise issues were more or less told to f**k off.

With regard to your second paragraph, I'd remind you that a company's profits belong to the shareholders. Corporation tax is levied at 40% on the company's net profits. That's if the company pays corporation tax. See Starbucks, Amazon and Google among others. The UK government can and does come to arrangements with foreign companies whereby they can get corporation tax relief if they set up a company. An independent Scotland would be in competition with England for this kind of business and England would hold most of the cards. Size alone is part of that. Is it worth 100% corporation tax relief to attract jobs? Probably. In the past it wasn't up to Scotland to make these decisions but I think we got our fair share. In the future England ( and Wales and Northern Ireland too) will get them nearly all with little Scotland not being able to compete. They might get some. Size matters. Size of economy I mean.

I didn't really mean to debate this today but it was another of the reasons that I recognised a long time ago as an inhibiting factor for an independent Scotland. If you go along with the belief that England is a cheating big bastard so far as business is concerned, just imagine what they might be like when an Independent Scotland and England go head to head for a foreign company bringing let's say 10,000 jobs.

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