Lord Pityme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 It's football there is no contract and the only certainty when buying a Saints ST is uncertainty. Never once in my 40 years of following have I thought by buying a ST I was entering into anything other than admission to watch 90 odd mins of football every second week. Bar OF fans I doubt anyone buying an ST would think they were "signing up" to anything. Tons of people on these forums keep bringing up the old 3rd biggest budget chestnut. If football did work on the principle that you finish where your budget dictates then mist folk would have chucked watching it generations ago. Thankfully it's far more unpredictable than that and it's that very fact that keeps us all interested. We will finish where our performances over the season dictate not where we are on a financial ladder. Cant agree with all of your take. Both the chairman and the manager stated the objective this season was to go back up, so I and many others are simply holding them to the level of performance and required results to get us into a play off place at least. Are you really, genuinely saying that fourth place is aiming too high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Cant agree with all of your take. Both the chairman and the manager stated the objective this season was to go back up, so I and many others are simply holding them to the level of performance and required results to get us into a play off place at least. Are you really, genuinely saying that fourth place is aiming too high? I would expect our Chairman and manager to target getting back up as that should be the no 1 objective. However, it is an objective and not a guarantee as so many other factors are required to be taken on board, namely 2 clubs with bigger support and budgets. If we are to get promoted then our target is to finish in top 4. We will not win the league as Scumgers are a far better team (as they should be with their resources) so getting into the top 4 should be our first target/objective. Most here knew it would take time for a new squad and manager but writing them off with 90 points to play for is unfair. Despite our poor start, I think we will improve and reach the top 4. Whether we go up is another matter. It is a rocky ride but we have been there. Our team and manager need our patience and support, particularly our younger players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I would expect our Chairman and manager to target getting back up as that should be the no 1 objective. However, it is an objective and not a guarantee as so many other factors are required to be taken on board, namely 2 clubs with bigger support and budgets. If we are to get promoted then our target is to finish in top 4. We will not win the league as Scumgers are a far better team (as they should be with their resources) so getting into the top 4 should be our first target/objective. Most here knew it would take time for a new squad and manager but writing them off with 90 points to play for is unfair. Despite our poor start, I think we will improve and reach the top 4. Whether we go up is another matter. It is a rocky ride but we have been there. Our team and manager need our patience and support, particularly our younger players. So to paraphrase... You think we are f**ked as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Given time I think he will prove a good addition scoring a few goals along the way. Certainly think it is wrong to slate the player so early in the season . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 So to paraphrase... You think we are f**ked as well! No, you clearly did not read what I typed but, as usual, turn anything positive into your personal Murray attack. We are not fecked but are where we are and it will take more than 2 months to sort out the last 2 dreadful years (cup win excepted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Saint Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Had he been played in a more advanced position, he might have been in a position to get on the end of a few of Thompson's knock downs/ons. Think that's the problem Drew. Ian Murray is obviously a manager who sets out not to lose a game rather than setting out to win it. We play most of every game in our own half and do not commit anywhere near enough players forward, always being to cautious. It's a struggle to sit and watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 To be fair to you, I have missed the posts of other obvious trolls cos I ignore them, but I doubt you have such a variety on Ignore that you missed all the Agnew-supportive posts. Surely you, at least, read your own threads? Didn't realise i was an obvious troll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 No, you clearly did not read what I typed but, as usual, turn anything positive into your personal Murray attack. We are not fecked but are where we are and it will take more than 2 months to sort out the last 2 dreadful years (cup win excepted) Why do we (I guess you mean Murray) need to sort out the last two years? I am not looking for him to do that. He has had the opportunity to virtually rebuild the squad, had a full pre season, all i want him to do is turn out a team in a league (he knows cough... Cough) we are capable of getting promoted from, that delivers good, consistent performances. That is after all his job, not mine. He has had nearly five months so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Why do we (I guess you mean Murray) need to sort out the last two years? I am not looking for him to do that. He has had the opportunity to virtually rebuild the squad, had a full pre season, all i want him to do is turn out a team in a league (he knows cough... Cough) we are capable of getting promoted from, that delivers good, consistent performances. That is after all his job, not mine. He has had nearly five months so far! No, my reference to the last 2 years is everything that went wrong at the club and cost us much needed financial resources through poor decision making in management and playing staff, many being paid off. No matter who came in, they had less money to spend and a new squad to build on a limited budget. Murray has inherited a relegated club and has to compete with 2 bigger clubs with more resources. Only time will tell if he is the right man. I cannot judge him in mid September. If we are still struggling in A month or two then questions will be asked by our BOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 No, my reference to the last 2 years is everything that went wrong at the club and cost us much needed financial resources through poor decision making in management and playing staff, many being paid off. No matter who came in, they had less money to spend and a new squad to build on a limited budget. Murray has inherited a relegated club and has to compete with 2 bigger clubs with more resources. Only time will tell if he is the right man. I cannot judge him in mid September. If we are still struggling in A month or two then questions will be asked by our BOD. No he didn't inherit anything, he got the job with an agreed budget and mandate. Why do people try to use other managers failures to somehow suggest that is the only reason Murray cant cut it? This is the squad he picked.... He signed Gow FFS.... He took an eternity to decide if he wanted Conlan and Howieson, and still signed them, he told us how fortunate we were to get Agnew.... Didnt see anyone else after him. The performances and results are down to Murray, who was chosen by the same Board who brought you Tommy (Farah) Craig and Tealzo the Manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 No he didn't inherit anything, he got the job with an agreed budget and mandate. Why do people try to use other managers failures to somehow suggest that is the only reason Murray cant cut it? This is the squad he picked.... He signed Gow FFS.... He took an eternity to decide if he wanted Conlan and Howieson, and still signed them, he told us how fortunate we were to get Agnew.... Didnt see anyone else after him. The performances and results are down to Murray, who was chosen by the same Board who brought you Tommy (Farah) Craig and Tealzo the Manager. What's up with Farah? The wee shop next to Paisley Tech sold shed loads of them. Smart casual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 No he didn't inherit anything, he got the job with an agreed budget and mandate. Why do people try to use other managers failures to somehow suggest that is the only reason Murray cant cut it? This is the squad he picked.... He signed Gow FFS.... He took an eternity to decide if he wanted Conlan and Howieson, and still signed them, he told us how fortunate we were to get Agnew.... Didnt see anyone else after him. The performances and results are down to Murray, who was chosen by the same Board who brought you Tommy (Farah) Craig and Tealzo the Manager. What part of your brain doesn't understand that paying off managers and plenty of players has impacted on our available resources. The club was a shambles when Murray took over and the ability to bring in certain players will have been affected by the amount available to pay salary/contract demands. If he (IM) was handtied by certain agents then there was little he could do. Therefore, the legacy of mismanagement plus need to cut costs through relegation has, to some degree, affected IM's choice in quality of player. As for Gow? Personally, I would not have kept him but IM saw something to offer a contract. The other players brought in will be assessed over the course of the season; every player and manager brought in is a gamble. If IM fails tactically then he won't last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Such financial constraints impact upon all clubs. However, as others have alluded to, St Mirren got a parachute payment which should make the Manager's job a little easier. Possibly even easier than it was for TC and Tealzo. Especially Tealzo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltcoatsbuddie Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 agnew was at Dumbarton because that was his level ,but instead of moving up a level ,murray and his signings have brought us down to below dumbartons level im afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Such financial constraints impact upon all clubs. However, as others have alluded to, St Mirren got a parachute payment which should make the Manager's job a little easier. Possibly even easier than it was for TC and Tealzo. Especially Tealzo.... Yes, we did get a parachute payment but that counters lost revenue from TV, gate receipts and other lost revenues that relegation brings. It will be interesting to compare accounts for last season v this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 agnew was at Dumbarton because that was his level ,but instead of moving up a level ,murray and his signings have brought us down to below dumbartons level im afraid Below Dumbarton level? Based on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Yes, we did get a parachute payment but that counters lost revenue from TV, gate receipts and other lost revenues that relegation brings. It will be interesting to compare accounts for last season v this one Yes , I recall Butcher saying that the year the Highland Franchise took the drop , it cost them about a million quid. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 What part of your brain doesn't understand that paying off managers and plenty of players has impacted on our available resources. The club was a shambles when Murray took over and the ability to bring in certain players will have been affected by the amount available to pay salary/contract demands. If he (IM) was handtied by certain agents then there was little he could do. Therefore, the legacy of mismanagement plus need to cut costs through relegation has, to some degree, affected IM's choice in quality of player. As for Gow? Personally, I would not have kept him but IM saw something to offer a contract. The other players brought in will be assessed over the course of the season; every player and manager brought in is a gamble. If IM fails tactically then he won't last. Let me get my hankie out and have a good cry for him.... He shouldn't have taken the f**king job then Ned, but hang on.... He liked the wage and he took it, so no more excuses, do the job or do one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltcoatsbuddie Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Below Dumbarton level? Based on? eh the league table and performances bud,or maybe you don't realise we are where we are because were poor ,not because of referee decisions or bad luck but because we are worse than last season which in itself seems unthinkable but that's in reality is where we are right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 I wonder if Murray will sign Cheesy in January..? I mean if younwant to deflect blame onto someone its a no-brainer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluto Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Yes, we did get a parachute payment but that counters lost revenue from TV, gate receipts and other lost revenues that relegation brings. It will be interesting to compare accounts for last season v this one My point is... Dumbarton, Falkirk, Morton etc do not have that. Their teams, their managers all are making do, better than St Mirren, than IM. Legacy financials are not an excuse - if the parachute payment can't be used for blame. IM has yet to prove he can manage. I am on his side - the side of St Mirren - and hoping that it will work out. I am hopeful. There appear to be good players a-plenty... whether or not there can be a good team is the task that IM has yet to complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) eh the league table and performances bud,or maybe you don't realise we are where we are because were poor ,not because of referee decisions or bad luck but because we are worse than last season which in itself seems unthinkable but that's in reality is where we are right now Surely end of season positions dictate which teams are better than others? You telling me Chelsea are below Leicester or West Ham level as they are performing better than them in the EPL at this early point in the season? I would bet my house that Chelsea will finish above both of them over the course of the season. Edited September 16, 2015 by nedflanders123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Yes, we did get a parachute payment but that counters lost revenue from TV, gate receipts and other lost revenues that relegation brings. It will be interesting to compare accounts for last season v this one But wait ,what about those wonderful season ticket sales which the club were crowing about ? & what about the fact that our ticket prices are exactly the same & what about the corp hosp at the same (ie not cheaper coz were watching shite in a lower league)price ? & the (i would assume) greatly reduced wage structure ? & two home games v The Rankers & the two derby matches & two against Hibees !!! Surely those would more than make up for the multi millions lost from telly !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieT Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Agnew looks unfit, Goodwin a deep lying central midfielder, never makes himself available for a pass choosing to man mark even when we have possession. How can we then drive forward to support an isolated striker? Surely Howieson is the ideal candidate in pushing forward to support the lone striker. Murray really needs to get a grip on formation and personnel, quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Other Championship clubs outside Hibs and Rangers would love to have the resources to sign the likes of Langfield, Webster and Shankland. They don't though, we do. Looking at the squad lists of the other teams in this division I'm fairly confident we have the third largest budget in the league. Therefore we should finish third. Edited September 17, 2015 by TopCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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