eastlandssaint Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 http://www.stmirren.info/id81.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I was critical of the appointment too and took a lot of flack on here, as usual, for it. I was even pressed for a name of a manager that I would have preferred to have seen appointed. I gave the name Stephen Kenny and that was again greeted with much ridicule from the usual clueless clique. They claimed I should back Murray, get off his case, give him a chance etc, etc....Well one win from 9 matches says it all really, doesn't it. Kenny, just for the record, is currently the Dundalk manager who's side are 13 points clear at the top of the Irish Premier League having lost just one match of their 29 played to date. indeed Kenny's win ratio since being appointment manager at Dundalk in November 2012 stands at a hugely impressive 69.36%, winning 77 matches, drawing 16 and losing 18 in total. In his first season at Dundalk they finished 2nd, narrowly missing top spot. In his second season Dundalk won the League and the League Cup double. In his third it looks highly likely he'll do the league and cup double again - on Friday they made it through to the FAI Cup Final. It wasn't the usual clique, it was most of us. A clique is a splinter group, which can offer some room for debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Both Lord Pityme and myself stated at the outset that Ian Murray was a poor appointment. His record at Dumbarton did not justify his appointment. TBH, I don't really care. I've only been at the Dumbarton game and knew after 45 mins that the season was over and I wouldn't be back. I actually find it quite funny. I'm laughing at guys like Nednerlander and Oaksoft in particular. E.[/quote Really? Laughing at some just because our opinions differ? Edited October 4, 2015 by nedflanders123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Both Lord Pityme and myself stated at the outset that Ian Murray was a poor appointment. His record at Dumbarton did not justify his appointment. TBH, I don't really care. I've only been at the Dumbarton game and knew after 45 mins that the season was over and I wouldn't be back. I actually find it quite funny. I'm laughing at guys like Nednerlander and Oaksoft in particular. E. Is your latest barb aimed at me by any chance? Why are you laughing at someone who was prepared to wait a bit longer while the team are in trouble? I am not happy and something is clearly wrong. I have always stated I would give him the first quarter and then make a judgement. Clearly there is no evidence of a settle team, style or tactics and that is very worrying. Something needs to change and I feel the biggest issue is Murray. Every team makes a bad appointment and managers, like certain players, fail. I am now certain that unless a key change is made we will struggle. I am confident we will not be relegated but mid table may be the best. There needs to be a clearout throughout the club to establish the root cause of our poor performance with a decent squad - including our manager getting his arse kicked as necessary. I don't regret giving our manager the first quarter to judge how we are doing as he deserved at least that, however, I think key decisions are needed soon to stem the slide. I find it sad that our demise has afforded you another opportunity to be amused and single out some of us who, rightfully or wrongfully, were more patient than you. There is no right or wrong but just opinions and views. They may not sit well with you but overall we have the best interests in our beloved club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I was critical of the appointment too and took a lot of flack on here, as usual, for it. I was even pressed for a name of a manager that I would have preferred to have seen appointed. I gave the name Stephen Kenny and that was again greeted with much ridicule from the usual clueless clique. They claimed I should back Murray, get off his case, give him a chance etc, etc....Well one win from 9 matches says it all really, doesn't it. Kenny, just for the record, is currently the Dundalk manager who's side are 13 points clear at the top of the Irish Premier League having lost just one match of their 29 played to date. indeed Kenny's win ratio since being appointment manager at Dundalk in November 2012 stands at a hugely impressive 69.36%, winning 77 matches, drawing 16 and losing 18 in total. In his first season at Dundalk they finished 2nd, narrowly missing top spot. In his second season Dundalk won the League and the League Cup double. In his third it looks highly likely he'll do the league and cup double again - on Friday they made it through to the FAI Cup Final. Kenny is in employment and thus would cost money A total non starter I wasn't too excited when Murray was appointed and i honestly didn't think he would be this bad All this talk get rid of his assistant and replace with an experienced man is nonsense Murray calls the shots and most of the time they have been dreadful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Really Brian come on. Kenny took over a Dunfermline side well adrift of St Mirren and Motherwell and he took it to the very last match of the season. He also took Dunfermline to the Scottish Cup Final, losing 1-0 to Celtic, having beaten the likes of Rangers and Hibernian en route. Kenny has a long record of success. True most of it is in Ireland, but he's got plenty of experience of getting unfashionable clubs to win trophies and into Europe. He would have been, and would still be, perfect for the St Mirren job - and certainly better than the names being put forward by many of the same clueless wonders who were punting Ian Murray's name around pre season and who now want him sacked. So having been successful in Ireland, he took over a Scottish club in decline and was unable to turn things around. Again I ask... what has changed to make him a better option now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ McG Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I'd be inclined to say the same about anyone championing the cause of a manager whose only success is in the Irish league and whose previous experience in Scotland makes Tommy Craig's tenure look impressive. Lol get f**king real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Paul Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 We are still only a couple of wins away from turning this around NEWSFLASH - Ian Murray inherited a shambles. I believe he will turn it round. Also - am disappointed and frustrated as anyone else here, I've not been watching 11 other guys to what you've been watching, aware of how rough a ride it has been. We've already had 5 managers in 5 years let's not bay for the execution of a (third) decent one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ McG Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 We are still only a couple of wins away from turning this around NEWSFLASH - Ian Murray inherited a shambles. I believe he will turn it round. Also - am disappointed and frustrated as anyone else here, I've not been watching 11 other guys to what you've been watching, aware of how rough a ride it has been. We've already had 5 managers in 5 years let's not bay for the execution of a (third) decent one ! LOL!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Any contract of employment I've ever signed has had a probation period built in. Wonder if that exists in Football contracts? In a permanent contract yes employer can basically let you go anytime in first 2 years. Football managers don't sign those kinds of contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10ent Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 All this talk get rid of his assistant and replace with an experienced man is nonsense Murray calls the shots and most of the time they have been dreadful Totally agree with this. Actually feel Spaldings getting hung out to dry by Murray. From wheeling him out to face the media after the defeat to Raith to Murray seemingly having a go at him every time he comes down from the stand to then leaving him trying to motivate the team while the Manager f**ks off to the back of the Main Stand. On the subject of Murray going back & forward I don't think I've ever seen that before. One thing for the Manager to start off sitting in the stand but to go back & forward 6 or 7 times in a game and also miss both goals should have Gilmour having a word to ask what the f**k are you doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I would hope that after recent managerial appointments and crazy contract lengths dished out, that this time the board have a clause that if the manager turns out to be shite he gets punted at no cost to the club. May be far fetched but hopefully there is something to that effect written in and Murray agreed to it. Seriously doubt it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) I should also add - Kenny also took Dunfermline to the Challenge Cup Final in the season that he was sacked at Dunfermline and in 51 matches his record at Dunfermline was that he won 16 times. Craigs record at St Mirren was 3 wins in 19 matches. To claim the two were similar is utterly laughable. Tommy Craig was worse than John Coughlin....I wasn't overly excited by IM but was prepared to give him a chance... he can leave any time soon... Edited October 4, 2015 by proudtobeabuddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 We are still only a couple of wins away from turning this around NEWSFLASH - Ian Murray inherited a shambles. I believe he will turn it round. Also - am disappointed and frustrated as anyone else here, I've not been watching 11 other guys to what you've been watching, aware of how rough a ride it has been. We've already had 5 managers in 5 years let's not bay for the execution of a (third) decent one ! Haven't seen much to inspire any kind of optimism and I'm not Nosferatu or LPM.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the barrhead teacher Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 We gave Tommy Craig too long....look how that worked out... Last season some of the early games showed lots of promise. The 1-0 defeat at Fir Park in the first game in particular I left very hopeful of what was to come. That has not happened in any game this season. I appreciate we are skint and the cost of ending his contract is an issue, but I and many others forked out again for season tickets expecting a competitive side in the top half of the league at least. 9 games gone in league, two Petrofac cup games and one league cup fiasco. Not one of the games I have seen during that period have given me any hope....Murray has no tactical knowledge, God knows what is happening in training, he has no idea what ihs best formation or line up is. He has to take advice from someone other than Spalding, win back the confidence of his players with a real heart to heart, walk or be sacked. This cannot continue as we cannot face a relegation dogfight AGAIN. I never wanted Lennon out, particularly for his assistant and yesterday confirmed this view. Absolutely appalling an a new recent low, on top of so many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Last season some of the early games showed lots of promise. The 1-0 defeat at Fir Park in the first game in particular I left very hopeful of what was to come. That has not happened in any game this season. I appreciate we are skint and the cost of ending his contract is an issue, but I and many others forked out again for season tickets expecting a competitive side in the top half of the league at least. 9 games gone in league, two Petrofac cup games and one league cup fiasco. Not one of the games I have seen during that period have given me any hope....Murray has no tactical knowledge, God knows what is happening in training, he has no idea what ihs best formation or line up is. He has to take advice from someone other than Spalding, win back the confidence of his players with a real heart to heart, walk or be sacked. This cannot continue as we cannot face a relegation dogfight AGAIN. I never wanted Lennon out, particularly for his assistant and yesterday confirmed this view. Absolutely appalling an a new recent low, on top of so many. I wasn't sure about Murray, but thought as a young, ambitious manager he would get our team's enthusiasm back and get a bit of excitement about the place. It's actually got even worse than last season, we look incapable of beating anyone. The reason i want Murray gone now is that the season is still young and we could turn it round if we make the right appointment.... Leave it too late and we'll probably struggle and our crowds will probably dwindle to the low 2000's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabinho Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Did Tommy Craig get someone to a Scottish Cup Final? Did he get them into Europe? Did I miss that? You are definitely one of the clueless clique. Let me put it another way then as you're clearly struggling with it, Stephen Kenny was shit as a manager in Scotland, so was Tommy Craig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Kenny is in employment and thus would cost money A total non starter I wasn't too excited when Murray was appointed and i honestly didn't think he would be this bad All this talk get rid of his assistant and replace with an experienced man is nonsense Murray calls the shots and most of the time they have been dreadful Yep. I'm not being revisionist about this. I was asked to name who I would have appointed as successor to Gary Teale when I named Stephen Kenny. He signed a new one year extension on the 23rd of April 2015 which takes him up to November 2016. St Mirren could have got him very cheaply had the board of directors been proactive towards the end of last season. Unfortunately they listened to the clueless clique and lined up Ian Murray instead. Their prerogative of course, but it's a mistake that will cost them more than it would have done to have appointed the right man in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 So having been successful in Ireland, he took over a Scottish club in decline and was unable to turn things around. Again I ask... what has changed to make him a better option now? Oh FFS! The point was he did turn things around at Dunfermline. He took a seriously shite outfit off of Jim Leishman, 10 points adrift at the bottom of the league, and turned them into a side that came within a goalkeeper fumble of staying in the SPL and he did that whilst getting Dunfermline to a Scottish Cup Final and qualifying for a place in Europe - something St Mirren haven't done since 1987! Clearly he is and has always been a better option than Tommy Craig and his track record proves he's miles better than Ian Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Tommy Craig was worse than John Coughlin....I wasn't overly excited by IM but was prepared to give him a chance... he can leave any time soon... I'm not sure he was. Coughlin was a complete idiot in charge of the club. You only had to read his forum posts on the Official Website at the time to know that. To have got rid of Hendrie only to replace him with a man like that was by far the current boards most ridiculous act in all their time at the club. Craig was a poor choice as manager too. Loads of people within the game knew he didn't have the right temperament for the job but the board ignored all the advice and gave him the job anyway. Craig could make up as many lists of players as he wanted, agents, particularly Scottish agents, were not going to be pushing their players to sign for Craig unless it really was their last option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Let me put it another way then as you're clearly struggling with it, Stephen Kenny was shit as a manager in Scotland, so was Tommy Craig. You're clearly struggling with this. Stephen Kenny won far more games than Tommy Craig and Ian Murray put together. He also managed to get Dunfermline into Europe and took them to the Scottish Cup Final defeating Rangers and Hibs en route. If you think Kenny was as shite as Tommy Craig then you are a clueless clot who really ought not to be listened to when it comes to opinions on football managers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Oh FFS! The point was he did turn things around at Dunfermline. He took a seriously shite outfit off of Jim Leishman, 10 points adrift at the bottom of the league, and turned them into a side that came within a goalkeeper fumble of staying in the SPL and he did that whilst getting Dunfermline to a Scottish Cup Final and qualifying for a place in Europe - something St Mirren haven't done since 1987! Clearly he is and has always been a better option than Tommy Craig and his track record proves he's miles better than Ian Murray. So what you are saying is that he oversaw a side that was narrowly relegated. Fair enough... benefit of the doubt and all that. How did his next season pan out? Being the great manager you say he is, how did he fare at winning promotion the following season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) So what you are saying is that he oversaw a side that was narrowly relegated. Fair enough... benefit of the doubt and all that. How did his next season pan out? Being the great manager you say he is, how did he fare at winning promotion the following season? Depends on how you look at it. They started the season off with a decent performance in Europe against BK Hacken. They drew 1-1 at home and lost the away leg by a single goal. The squad was depleted due to the well documented financial pressures at the club. He'd lost his goalkeeper to Swansea City and he'd lost Gary Mason to St Mirren and they struggled to gain traction in the First Division for the first few games. They did however make it to the Challenge Cup Final losing to St Johnstone in the end. There's no dressing needed. Kenny got off to a disappointing start in the league that year and that's why he lost his job, however his track record both in Scotland and in Ireland stands up to all scrutiny. Indeed despite the fact that Dunfermline were 15 points behind Hamilton Accies in the league that year, the majority of Dunfermline fans retained a belief that their side could still turn around the deficit to win promotion. Kenny is a winning manager with a fantastic record with unfashionable clubs. To claim that Stephen Kenny is as poor as Ian Murray or Tommy Craig is utter nonsense and the fact that you keep returning with this argument BinEK does you very little credit at all. Edited October 4, 2015 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 Depends on how you look at it. They started the season off with a decent performance in Europe against BK Hacken. They drew 1-1 at home and lost the away leg by a single goal. The squad was depleted due to the well documented financial pressures at the club. He'd lost his goalkeeper to Swansea City and he'd lost Gary Mason to St Mirren and they struggled to gain traction in the First Division for the first few games. They did however make it to the Challenge Cup Final losing to St Johnstone in the end. There's no dressing needed. Kenny got off to a disappointing start in the league that year and that's why he lost his job, however his track record both in Scotland and in Ireland stands up to all scrutiny. He's a winning manager with a fantastic record with unfashionable clubs. To claim that Stephen Kenny is as poor as Ian Murray or Tommy Craig is utter nonsense and the fact that you keep returning with this argument BinEK does you very little credit at all. I'm only asking the questions Stuart... making no claims. You made a statement and all I have asked for is some justification behind the thinking. Still struggling with your logic though. However much you try to skip the bad chapter, as far as I see it that is the very relevant one. The problems you say he faced are ones that any Saints manager will face... yet you admit his failings in the face of them led to his dismissal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabinho Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 You're clearly struggling with this. Stephen Kenny won far more games than Tommy Craig and Ian Murray put together. He also managed to get Dunfermline into Europe and took them to the Scottish Cup Final defeating Rangers and Hibs en route. If you think Kenny was as shite as Tommy Craig then you are a clueless clot who really ought not to be listened to when it comes to opinions on football managers And that, my esteemed forum fool, is exactly why neither of us will ever be responsible for employing professional football managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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