Mid Calder Saint Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Richard as a retired Bank Manager there are many aspects of a Balance Sheet to be looked at viz:%Net Profit to Turnover Valuation relative to Floating Charge etc.From a Football Club perspective salaries should equate to max 65% of Turnover.We don't yet have figures for year ended May2015 perhaps only then can the Consortium be in a position to explore the interest from Scott/SMISA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Marvellous Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 [quote name="TopCat" post="1318830" timestamp=" As I said previously changing the manager wouldn't require any additional expense. We simply put them on gardening leave and make an internal promotion till the end of the season. It's risk free as i simply can't see how a squad like ours could be managed any worse. The worst case scenario is it doesn't get better. RISK FREE??? WORST CASE SCENARIO??? All over this forum the biggest gripe is that the BOD make bad decisions. You're saying the should make last seasons mistake all over again? Heres the risk mate....relegation. Here's the worst case scenario....relegation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 RISK FREE??? WORST CASE SCENARIO??? All over this forum the biggest gripe is that the BOD make bad decisions. You're saying the should make last seasons mistake all over again? Heres the risk mate....relegation. Here's the worst case scenario....relegation That's the worst case scenario yes, and it's looking eminently possible under Murray. Things couldn't get any worse under a new manager I'm certain of that. Hence risk free. It will either get better or stay the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 No they don't. Banks have to take more into account than just being able to take a security or a floating charge. First and foremost would be how convertible that security would be into actual cash.....Club has been for sale long enough to show that is not straightforward. St Mirren Accounts say our Assets are nearer £10 Million - so being able to borrow some cash would not be a difficult thing. If we keep going like we are - we will have to go to WONGA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Look at the state football clubs who borrow money have got themselves into in the past, us included. What if we borrow money and it doesn't work? We borrow money and no tangible return on the park? Madness. I hope we never borrow another penny again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Look at the state football clubs who borrow money have got themselves into in the past, us included. What if we borrow money and it doesn't work? We borrow money and no tangible return on the park? Madness. I hope we never borrow another penny again. Borrowing money is what makes the world go around it only becomes a problem when you borrow what you can't afford to pay back. It's how most businesses work. I had to have a mortgage, without one I'd still be saving for my first house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Borrowing money is what makes the world go around it only becomes a problem when you borrow what you can't afford to pay back. It's how most businesses work. I had to have a mortgage, without one I'd still be saving for my first house. You could have rented and stayed debt free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Marvellous Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 That's the worst case scenario yes, and it's looking eminently possible under Murray. Things couldn't get any worse under a new manager I'm certain of that. Hence risk free. It will either get better or stay the same. How do you figure things will either get better or stay the same? Don't know if your aware but there are two divisions below ours and you only need to look at Dunfermline to realise what can happen to teams like ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 You could have rented and stayed debt free! Yes but by borrowing money I was able to move up the housing ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Look at the state football clubs who borrow money have got themselves into in the past, us included. What if we borrow money and it doesn't work? We borrow money and no tangible return on the park? Madness. I hope we never borrow another penny again. If that is our main goal then prepare for relegation - every club borrows. The good ones borrow to accumulate and do so within their means. Accumulating is something our current BOD are not good at - whether its points or good managers. If we really manage things better we could sign players who could be moved on at a profit. But then we would need to have a business plan - with replacements lined up - sounds too difficult - let's just take who we can get for cheap - that obviously doesn't work too well BUT we might get lucky OR not. Not sure we have many players currently that folk are lining up to buy. Celtic have been doing it for years - Victor Wanyama etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Only an idiot would suggest that a club who only got out of bank debt 6 or 7 years ago, go back into debt while teetering on the fringes of relegation to the third tier. No certainty that (as yet unnamed) messiah-like new manager would keep us up. No certainty that the much maligned Murray will take us down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Only an idiot would suggest that a club who only got out of bank debt 6 or 7 years ago, go back into debt while teetering on the fringes of relegation to the third tier. No certainty that (as yet unnamed) messiah-like new manager would keep us up. No certainty that the much maligned Murray will take us down. Well let's just give him a few more games to put us out of our misery and prove who is right beyond any reasonable doubt - Hibs, Raith and Morton - How few points are acceptable? 3, 6 or 9 ? (bearing in mind our recent record in the league)I suggest we don't aim above 4 from 9 - That would clearly be far too ambitious Edited November 2, 2015 by Sweeper07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) How do you figure things will either get better or stay the same? Don't know if your aware but there are two divisions below ours and you only need to look at Dunfermline to realise what can happen to teams like ours.Because such an experienced and talented squad of players could not realistically get any worse.We are joint second bottom and are in a relegation battle as it stands. That will either continue if we change manager or get better. How could it possibly get worse? We might go down this season we might not. The point is sacking Murray won't increase the chance of it happening. There's two part time teams in this league, and they're the only two below us. Any new managers remit will simply be to keep us above two part time teams and to keep us in the league. Edited November 2, 2015 by TopCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Borrowing money is what makes the world go around it only becomes a problem when you borrow what you can't afford to pay back. It's how most businesses work. I had to have a mortgage, without one I'd still be saving for my first house. Well comparing personal finances with a football clubs finances is ludicrous. Are you saying you think St Mirren should get a bank loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well comparing personal finances with a football clubs finances is ludicrous. Are you saying you think St Mirren should get a bank loan? What I am saying is most good businesses are built on borrowing. As long as you borrow what you can afford to pay back. I was brought up in a time where you didn't buy anything unless you had the money. We even rented our TV's in those days. Borrowing money can bring benefits if the money is used wisely to say that borrowing money is wrong no matter what isn't correct. Sometimes it is wise to borrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 What I am saying is most good businesses are built on borrowing. As long as you borrow what you can afford to pay back. I was brought up in a time where you didn't buy anything unless you had the money. We even rented our TV's in those days. Borrowing money can bring benefits if the money is used wisely to say that borrowing money is wrong no matter what isn't correct. Sometimes it is wise to borrow. Football clubs aren't businesses in the normal sense of the term. Their purpose isn't (or shouldn't be) to turn a profit. They're effectively social enterprises. If a football club goes under the whole community is affected along with the thousands of fans who go week in week out. Not just the employees and owners, as would be the case with any normal business going bust. That is why the risk of borrowing money is far greater than it would normally be for a person getting a mortgage or a sports wear firm getting an overdraft. Baring this in mind, if you were the St Mirren chairman, would you get a bank loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Football clubs aren't businesses in the normal sense of the term. Their purpose isn't (or shouldn't be) to turn a profit. They're effectively social enterprises. If a football club goes under the whole community is affected along with the thousands of fans who go week in week out. Not just the employees and owners, as would be the case with any normal business going bust. That is why the risk of borrowing money is far greater than it would normally be for a person getting a mortgage or a sports wear firm getting an overdraft. Baring this in mind, if you were the St Mirren chairman, would you get a bank loan? If I thought a bank loan would benefit the club then yes I would get a loan. Are you saying that if you were the chairman then there would be no circumstance where you would consider a bank loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'd rather get relegated than go down the route of a secured loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 If I thought a bank loan would benefit the club then yes I would get a loan. Are you saying that if you were the chairman then there would be no circumstance where you would consider a bank loan? Absolutely not. I believe the current chairman has said similar. Form comes and goes. The most important thing is the solvency of the football club and the preservation of its assets. The last thing we need is to be saddled with interest payments on a loan while languishing in the third tier - which is a distinct possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E=Mc2 Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Yes but by borrowing money I was able to move up the housing ladder. That made me laugh. Show me the same return from investing in a football club and I will put in money. Indeed it would have to be a greater return than that received from a property with a mortgage as, at least, you have a house to live in whilst repaying that loan. Is there a "football club ladder"? Using the child's board game as an analogy I would say using debt to own a football club is more snakes than ladders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 If I thought a bank loan would benefit the club then yes I would get a loan. Are you saying that if you were the chairman then there would be no circumstance where you would consider a bank loan? If I thought a bank loan would benefit the club then yes I would get a loan. Are you saying that if you were the chairman then there would be no circumstance where you would consider a bank loan? Anyone who works in the banking sector will tell you banks will no longer bank roll clubs with loans. Maybe ticketus will give us a few million for 500 years of ticket sales lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Anyone who works in the banking sector will tell you banks will no longer bank roll clubs with loans.Maybe ticketus will give us a few million for 500 years of ticket sales lol The banking sector nearly sank the world market with crazy loans. They are more irresponsible than the clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 We should be able to get a loan secured against the future transfer fees we'll get for Gow & Conlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 A lot of sense getting posted on here regarding the finances of our Club. Unfortunately Jakey is pished and talking nonsense. We must not borrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 You could have rented and stayed debt free! to be fair, owning my own house is currently saving me around £600 a month compared to renting and when my mortgage is laid off in 5 years that saving will be £900 a month or £10,800 a year for the remaining 30 or 40 years of my life if i live to the average age. that is quite an incentive to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.