Dave The Buddie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well the clamour from most of our fans has been to play these two boys ahead of Thompson. Well he has and neither of them have hardly had a sniff at goal. Now don't get me wrong am not blaming the boys they are in an impossible situation. I blame the managers tactics. We are a team that even in this division that don't create many chances per game. If we play two up top with Thommo & Shankland and can actually get service into them then we may see our strikers score goals. We know Thommo is not getting any younger so instruct him not to run the channels which I only believe he done previously out of frustration and eagerness to lead from the front. Instruct his young strike partner to do the running. Class is permanent and I believe Thommo can score and assist in this league by playing two up top with Shankland or Gallagher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Given the hoofball tactics we were using, we only looked dangerous when Gallagher went into the middle and started to run the channels. Shankland is strong and can hold the ball up, but he needs the ball dropped into him, he isn't a target man. Still, what do I know!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pass pass pass Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I believe shankland and Gallagher will come when we have midfielders that can hold and pass the ball through to them, as for thommo there is obviously an issue with him and Mr Murray as he is playing mcclear and bringing on other sub's last night and not using him, but hey Murray knows a lot more than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbar_bud Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Shankland looks drastically unfit, and looks to be carrying a load of extra weight, find it incredible this can happen to full time players with all the science that's out there now.... That said, Thommo got a long run of games and didn't contribute much, so IMO we need to allow Shankland to play himself to fitness and sharpness. Gallagher has been one of the few bright spots this year with his work rate and attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I've not been impressed by Shankland or Gallagher at all this season to be honest. Could throw McMullan into that too. All 3 of them came here with a decent bit of pedigree and are at a good age. The age you'd expect them to kick on and establish themselves as senior players at this level. They've all got a good amount of game time yet neither has really delivered the quality in the final third we've needed. On Friday in particular, all 3 start at home to Morton on live tv. A chance if there ever was one to make a name for yourself with the support and indeed the viewing public. All 3 are awful and barely register any attacking intent between them all evening, never mind score. None of them can hold the ball up and their persistent surrender of possession invites wave after wave of Morton attack on to us. I wasn't there last night but according to a couple of trusted reports Shankland and Gallagher were poor yet again. Indeed it shows a lot of Miller and Murray's opinion of Shankland's performance last night that when we are 1-0 down with 20 to go he's taken off and replaced by a winger. I think there's better forward options out there for us in January and I hope whoever is in charge of us then finds them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 McMullen came on and we were still banging high balls up there. I'd wait and see what Thompson, Shankland, Gallagher, McMullen, McLear, Morgan etc could do when we play a style of football that lets us get behind defences and create a few chances for the strikers. It's harsh to judge them when we don't get wide oftenenough, can't put in a decent cross, don't win second balls from clearances, don't provide them with the chance to have an effort on goal. We complained that Thommo wasn't having any shots or much influence, now the same accusation is being aimed at Shankland, Gallagher and McMullen. Are all these guys really just 'awful', or is the way we approach the game not helping them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Dougie Imre scored 3 goals in 39 matches at St Mirren. As soon as he left he tripled his strike rate at Morton and he's doubled it at Hamilton Accies. John Baird scored 1 goal every 5 matches at St Mirren - not bad for a St Mirren striker, however he's now scoring 1 goal every 1,7 games. Gary Harkins scored 1 goal in 15 matches at St Mirren. He went to Oldham and improved that strike rate to 1 goal every 4 matches and 1 in 8 at Dundee. The only player in recent times that has bucked that trend is Kenny McLean and he's just one goal short of his best season at St Mirren having played 10 games less than in his best season at St Mirren. It's clear the problem at St Mirren is tactical and its down to successive failings in management whether you want to look at Gus McPherson, Danny Lennon, Tommy Craig, and now Ian Murray. Its time for a manager who gets the side playing without fear and in a far more positive and attacking manner. Neither Murray, or Alex Miller for that matter is likely to have the team do that and to blame Shankland, Gallagher or even Thompson for their lack of goals when the supply is utterly useless is frankly absurd. Edited November 25, 2015 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave The Buddie Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) The only time we should play a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 is against Rangers, Hibs & Falkirk away. The rest of the time we should play 4-4-2 . With two wingers two up top. Play expansion football getting the ball out wide. We have players that play out wide with Morgan, Gallagher, McLear & McMullan who can all commit fullbacks and get the ball in the box. With Goodwin sitting in front of defence or Carswell when Goodwin is out like now. Mallan just in front with Agnew replacing him when Mallan is out. Have Thommo up top with any other we should be able to beat most teams in the league. Get rid of the long ball tactics they ain't working. Edited November 25, 2015 by Dave The Buddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Dougie Imre scored 3 goals in 39 matches at St Mirren. As soon as he left he tripled his strike rate at Morton and he's doubled it at Hamilton Accies. John Baird scored 1 goal every 5 matches at St Mirren - not bad for a St Mirren striker, however he's now scoring 1 goal every 1,7 games. Gary Harkins scored 1 goal in 15 matches at St Mirren. He went to Oldham and improved that strike rate to 1 goal every 4 matches and 1 in 8 at Dundee. The only player in recent times that has bucked that trend is Kenny McLean and he's just one goal short of his best season at St Mirren having played 10 games less than in his best season at St Mirren. It's clear the problem at St Mirren is tactical and its down to successive failings in management whether you want to look at Gus McPherson, Danny Lennon, Tommy Craig, and now Ian Murray. Its time for a manager who gets the side playing without fear and in a far more positive and attacking manner. Neither Murray, or Alex Miller for that matter is likely to have the team do that and to blame Shankland, Gallagher or even Thompson for their lack of goals when the supply is utterly useless is frankly absurd. I have to agree with you. I simply don't see how you can expect forwards to score goals when we simply don't carve put chances. Even at that, on the rare occasions we do, we seem more content to slide the ball sideways again and again in the box rather than someone just having a ping at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I have to agree with you. Ditto. Hurts, though, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Dougie Imre scored 3 goals in 39 matches at St Mirren. As soon as he left he tripled his strike rate at Morton and he's doubled it at Hamilton Accies. John Baird scored 1 goal every 5 matches at St Mirren - not bad for a St Mirren striker, however he's now scoring 1 goal every 1,7 games. Gary Harkins scored 1 goal in 15 matches at St Mirren. He went to Oldham and improved that strike rate to 1 goal every 4 matches and 1 in 8 at Dundee. The only player in recent times that has bucked that trend is Kenny McLean and he's just one goal short of his best season at St Mirren having played 10 games less than in his best season at St Mirren. It's clear the problem at St Mirren is tactical and its down to successive failings in management whether you want to look at Gus McPherson, Danny Lennon, Tommy Craig, and now Ian Murray. Its time for a manager who gets the side playing without fear and in a far more positive and attacking manner. Neither Murray, or Alex Miller for that matter is likely to have the team do that and to blame Shankland, Gallagher or even Thompson for their lack of goals when the supply is utterly useless is frankly absurd. Well before last season we had 4 consecutive 15 goal seasons from our main striker. Higdon in 10/11 and then Thompson in 11/12, 12/13 and 13/14. Neither of them had been as prolific before in their careers. John Baird has never been a top flight level striker so his record in the championship is pretty irrelevant. He failed in the top flight with Thistle and Dundee IIRC. Harkins and Imrie like being the big fish at their respective clubs and neither were with us. Last year our main striker wasn't fit for the majority of the season and pretty much as a result we got relegated. This year we aren't creating a great deal but I don't think it's being unreasonable to expect more of a contribution from the aforementioned 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luther Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Maybe if Miller stops calling these guys c... And Bastar.. These guys might be able to play to their full Potential rather than being abused the full game Young squad needs positivity positivity positivity I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Maybe if Miller stops calling these guys c... And Bastar.. These guys might be able to play to their full Potential rather than being abused the full game Young squad needs positivity positivity positivity I Positivity? If you think what Murray shouts is bad then it's he haw compared to the abuse from the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luther Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Positivity? If you think what Murray shouts is bad then it's he haw compared to the abuse from the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Well before last season we had 4 consecutive 15 goal seasons from our main striker. Higdon in 10/11 and then Thompson in 11/12, 12/13 and 13/14. Neither of them had been as prolific before in their careers. John Baird has never been a top flight level striker so his record in the championship is pretty irrelevant. He failed in the top flight with Thistle and Dundee IIRC. Harkins and Imrie like being the big fish at their respective clubs and neither were with us. Last year our main striker wasn't fit for the majority of the season and pretty much as a result we got relegated. This year we aren't creating a great deal but I don't think it's being unreasonable to expect more of a contribution from the aforementioned 3. Higdon scored 1 in 4 at Falkirk before moving to St Mirren where he was 1 in 4. He's since gone to Motherwell where his strike rate improved to just over 1 in 2 and at NEC Nijmegen where he scored just under 1 in 2. He's currently on loan at Oldham where he's scored 1 in 2. However you look at it front players are not achieving their potential at St Mirren and that has to be down to the way the team play. Edited November 25, 2015 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luther Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Miller I said not Murray Football players should expect some dogs abuse from fans thats part n parcel of their job My point is a manager who calls his own players the c word and bastar.. In full view of fans Needs a word on his ear thats for the dressing room I wonder if he had the balls to call gerrard carragher or even Torres these names A wee reality check on how the modern games played and it's no by punting it up the park to an invisible midfield mr miller As for Murray he will get the best from these young guys IMO only I am a positive thinker and think if these guys play the ball on the deck the way they have been taught then we will reap the rewards but this will take time and the person to do this is Murray Why has miller not tippled to this? Or is he giving Murray enough rope to hang himself. Interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Remember- You cant HURRY A MURRAY...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Interesting. What were the stats for McAvennie, Somner, Stark, Weir and McDougall? Probably quite good, but I'm sure you've got access to Google and you can look it up for yourself. Lavery, Yardley and Mendes probably had their best strike rates at St Mirren too as Tommy Bryceland and Gerry Baker probably did too. I was however referring to the sides operating under McPherson, Lennon, Craig and Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leolovesstmfc Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I can't judge any of these players because of the managers tactics! I think Gallagher looks the pick of the bunch! Thomohawk played up front on his own with no midfield support! Shankland looks OK at best but is that through lack of service and crap tactics? Gallagher has been played all over the Field he's sometimes the only player in our side that has any fight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysses Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 The tactics are the worst thing about it all. I just hope that when Murray goes, we don't go for a manager that will try and shitfest his way through games. Because let's be honest, that's what Murray does, and it's crystal clear that this type of football does not suit our players. At all. Ball to feet, short direct passing, and we will pick up. Pity Murray does not seem to know how to coach a team to play this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Well before last season we had 4 consecutive 15 goal seasons from our main striker. Higdon in 10/11 and then Thompson in 11/12, 12/13 and 13/14. Neither of them had been as prolific before in their careers. John Baird has never been a top flight level striker so his record in the championship is pretty irrelevant. He failed in the top flight with Thistle and Dundee IIRC. Harkins and Imrie like being the big fish at their respective clubs and neither were with us. Last year our main striker wasn't fit for the majority of the season and pretty much as a result we got relegated. This year we aren't creating a great deal but I don't think it's being unreasonable to expect more of a contribution from the aforementioned 3. Fair play for wasting time replying to the gibbering fool. I didn't see the point when I noticed he'd included Baird to prove his point - a player who played for us about a decade ago and was a youngster signed mainly as back-up and to play reserve football. Edited November 25, 2015 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Fair play for wasting time replying to the gibbering fool. I didn't see the point when I noticed he'd included Baird to prove his point - a player who played for us about a decade ago and was a youngster signed mainly as back-up and to play reserve football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Given the hoofball tactics we were using, we only looked dangerous when Gallagher went into the middle and started to run the channels. Shankland is strong and can hold the ball up, but he needs the ball dropped into him, he isn't a target man. Still, what do I know!? Yes , just because you observe something in reality , that on its own does not mean that you are qualified to make a proper judgement . For instance, I take it that you don't have your SFA couching badges which is why you are possibly trying to "manage from the stands ". Mr Murray does have the relevant credentials and therefore , we can only assume he does know . . However, to know and not to do , is not to know . In other words , it is all very well to have studied something but if for some reason you don't apply what you know then you don't know . Murray says he knows but doesn't implement and therefore he doesn't really know at all and there lies the reason he is telling us that he knows more , he probably does but unless he uses his knowledge to the good , he simply doesn't know. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luther Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Why on earth did we pick an old man for our number 2 can anyone tell me what he has done thats so brilliant since arriving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hard pushed to beat Dunky Walker with a goal ratio of 0.939. 77 goals in 82 appearances. From my era the most prolific would be Somner. Had he been full time and stayed clear of injuries he would have scored more and perhaps had some international recognition. Somner, McDougall, and Weir - arguably the best modern day forward line Saints have ever had, yet the only honour they won was the ASC. The got St Mirren their highest ever league position though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.