Bring Danny Lennon Back To Greenhill Road

[Lord Pityme]

Yes we do and that is why pretty much everyone wants the current manager to be sacked.

The reason we are in this mess is a combination of incompetence from Danny Lennon, then Tommy Craig, then Gary Teale, and now Ian Murray, mixed in with several dollops of terrible player recruitment and adding in a dash or two of bad decision making by the board.

Lennon is part and parcel of the demise of our on-field fortunes and anyone who disagrees has a very bad memory.

Nope wrong again.

The board of this club are sowing what they reaped. At any PLC they would have been long gone by now. They hold full and clear accountability, all choices and decisions were their's and their's alone!

[beyond our ken]

Not at all. I'm merely highlighting why Danny was let go at the end of season 203-2014. It was on the back of two bad league campaigns. He also had a terrible first season as well but his second campaign was decent, albeit we really struggled for consistency, we played good stuff and built a very good squad, one that ultimately won silverware.

I'm not saying he was an absolutely terrible manager during his time with us, but he certainly wasn't the guru that some are making him out to be and it certainly didn't surprise me when he was allowed to leave.

Appointing Tommy Craig was slightly barking, and never worked out, and since then it's been a series of disasters.

I don't think we should go back for Danny, or Gus for that matter. Those ships have sailed.

That's the nub of the problem, people who clamour for a reasonably successful manager's departure without one second's thought as to the unintended consequences and what will follow. I have heard it said that one of the biggest problems of a small club winning a trophy is the aftermath-a combination of raising expectations without thought of the limitations, self-congratulatory directors who think THEY did it all, fans who have seen a cup win and want to bask in the glory for a while and players who suddenly and unexpectedly over-achieve who then start to question if it can ever be that good again. Many pundits predicted a hard season for us BECAUSE of the cup win, rather than despite it.

Nobody is claiming DL to be a guru-you made that bit up, but you learn a lot more in the hard times than you do in the good and the final third of his last campaign showed definite signs of improvement. Many people suggested a short-term contract for DL and i was all for that, it would have been fair on him and on the club.

Instead we got Craig and all that followed.

But still it was the right decision?

Edited December 8, 2015 by beyond our ken

[beyond our ken]

Div says DL was incompetent and yet not a terrible manager?

Gimme strength

[TopCat]

I think it says a lot about how DL's tenure at St Mirren was viewed outside the club where he ended up.

I remember he put himself forward publicly for several full time jobs. Ross County, QOTS, Hibs, Hamilton and others. Yet no one was interested, indeed Ross County chose to pay compensation for Jim McIntyre rather than appoint the out of work Danny Lennon. Why?

Danny had a great grounding from McPherson to build on. Despite this, he could never take us away from the bottom end of the league. He got an extra season due to his cup win, and he still couldn't do it. Meanwhile, teams came from below us and overtook us.

People point to the disaster of TC. For a bit of context we were 11th in the top flight when he was sacked. We finished 11th in 2 out of the 4 seasons Danny had in charge, it was hardly an unprecedented low.

[Drew]

Nope wrong again.

The board of this club are sowing what they reaped. At any PLC they would have been long gone by now. They hold full and clear accountability, all choices and decisions were their's and their's alone!

I'm trying to get my head round the 'sowing what they reaped' line.

Is this a clever juxtaposition of the standard phrase, or just a slip?

[div]

Appointing Tommy Craig is what we do best, the cheap option.

Keep seeing that phrase mentioned "we always choose the cheap option".

I'm intrigued as to what it actually means.

How much did Tommy Craig get as his salary? Clearly people seem to know because we keep hearing this "cheap option" line.

Was Ian Murray also a "cheap option" ?

Looking at the accounts I can't see where we have done anything "cheaply". Instead I can see that we actually spent more than we should have.

[div]

Div says DL was incompetent and yet not a terrible manager?

Gimme strength

I said "he wasn't an absolutely terrible manager during his whole time with us".

He was however a terrible, incompetent manager during his final season with us, and that is why he was shown the door.

If you were happy with a record of three wins from 24 games then that's up to you.

[div]

They have made their minds up

No thought of how the constraints of working at St Mirren affected anything, and even more unbelievably, no credit for Danny as to how he performed within those constraints compared to the three managers who followed him.

Of course there were problems and mistakes, however they pale against what has happened since then

DL and AM as a team sounds good to me, but I wouldn't subject the wee guy to the treatment he got here once more

The constraints he was working within when he was manager of the club were the same constraints every manager has to work within;

ie; we can only spend what we can afford

[Lord Pityme]

Keep seeing that phrase mentioned "we always choose the cheap option".

I'm intrigued as to what it actually means.

How much did Tommy Craig get as his salary? Clearly people seem to know because we keep hearing this "cheap option" line.

Was Ian Murray also a "cheap option" ?

Looking at the accounts I can't see where we have done anything "cheaply". Instead I can see that we actually spent more than we should have.

You are quite right Div...

Tommy Craig and Murray have turned out to be anything but cheap as the money saved on hiring inexperienced, clueless managers has back fired big style with relegation, tumbling gates, pittance TV money, reduced advertising and sponsorship deals and reduced hospitality and other matchday revenues.....

The board's short-sightedness has cost us all plenty... Definetly not a cheap option, a pont well made Div!

Who makes these crazy decisions?

[stlucifer]

There's a good chance we wouldn't be in the current state of laughing stock, had Danny still been at the helm. Ian Murray makes Danny Lennon look like Pep Guardiola.

I don't think we would be in this league if we had kept Danny. He seemed to get the best out of our footballers when the sh!t was starting to hit the fan.

[div]

You are quite right Div...

Tommy Craig and Murray have turned out to be anything but cheap as the money saved on hiring inexperienced, clueless managers has back fired big style with relegation, tumbling gates, pittance TV money, reduced advertising and sponsorship deals and reduced hospitality and other matchday revenues.....

The board's short-sightedness has cost us all plenty... Definetly not a cheap option, a pont well made Div!

Who makes these crazy decisions?

You could level short sightedness at the board for the Tommy Craig appointment for sure but Ian Murray? I don't think so.

There were not many who complained about the appointment of Murray (apart from you who complains about everything all the time).

It was a gamble on a young manager that has backfired.

[tony dorris]

You are quite right Div...

Tommy Craig and Murray have turned out to be anything but cheap as the money saved on hiring inexperienced, clueless managers has back fired big style with relegation, tumbling gates, pittance TV money, reduced advertising and sponsorship deals and reduced hospitality and other matchday revenues.....

The board's short-sightedness has cost us all plenty... Definetly not a cheap option, a pont well made Div!

Who makes these crazy decisions?

[Lord Pityme]

You could level short sightedness at the board for the Tommy Craig appointment for sure but Ian Murray? I don't think so.

There were not many who complained about the appointment of Murray (apart from you who complains about everything all the time).

It was a gamble on a young manager that has backfired.

It Wasn't a gamble, it was a dead cert he would fail, as he had no track record of success at any level in management. His Dumbarton team shipped 79 goals last season, just missed the play offs and this season he is on track to at least match or do worse in the same league, with better facilities, set up and squad.

You can't polish a turd! And his team stunk and played like one last season.

[Bud the Baker]

Don't think Danny Lennon did enough over his last two seasons to justify a new contract - it was a close call and many people (including myself) were swithering as we made a strong finish to the 2013/14 season but the Bod acted swiftly putting TC in charge.

Great as the 2013 LC win was for me the real highlight of DL's time in charge was the first "quarter" of the 2011/12 season culminating in Thommo's last minute equalizer at Ibrox.

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/st-mirren/2011-2012/table/2011-10-15

Edited December 8, 2015 by Bud the Baker

[shull]

I agree with Tony.

Oops , there's 2.

Lol

Edited December 8, 2015 by shull

[div]

It Wasn't a gamble, it was a dead cert he would fail, as he had no track record of success at any level in management. His Dumbarton team shipped 79 goals last season, just missed the play offs and this season he is on track to at least match or do worse in the same league, with better facilities, set up and squad.

You can't polish a turd! And his team stunk and played like one last season.

I didn't see Dumbarton play last season so I can't comment on that but he did well I thought to keep a part time team in that division.

As I say, there weren't too many dissenting voices when he was appointed.

We took Tom Hendrie from a lower league than the Championship and he worked out not too badly, whilst Gus MacPherson took us to a cup final, a 1st Division championship win, a Bells cup win and kept us in the top flight for 5 seasons and that was his first ever managers job.

Every appointment is a gamble to some degree. Even previously successful managers can fail elsewhere. See Terry Butcher at ICT versus Terry Butcher at Hibs.

[Lord Pityme]

I didn't see Dumbarton play last season so I can't comment on that but he did well I thought to keep a part time team in that division.

As I say, there weren't too many dissenting voices when he was appointed.

We took Tom Hendrie from a lower league than the Championship and he worked out not too badly, whilst Gus MacPherson took us to a cup final, a 1st Division championship win, a Bells cup win and kept us in the top flight for 5 seasons and that was his first ever managers job.

Every appointment is a gamble to some degree. Even previously successful managers can fail elsewhere. See Terry Butcher at ICT versus Terry Butcher at Hibs.

Agree to a cetain extent, but the managers you mention had proven themselves. Murray took Dumbarton from top half to near relegation when Jack Ross left him. I Don't think that was too hard to read given you are going to intrust your company's performance, And fate into one guys hands. That and the fact no one else would take him despite throwing his hat in for a couple more managerial posts before ours.

[Bud the Baker]

I didn't see Dumbarton play last season so I can't comment on that but he did well I thought to keep a part time team in that division.

As I say, there weren't too many dissenting voices when he was appointed.

We took Tom Hendrie from a lower league than the Championship and he worked out not too badly, whilst Gus MacPherson took us to a cup final, a 1st Division championship win, a Bells cup win and kept us in the top flight for 5 seasons and that was his first ever managers job.

Every appointment is a gamble to some degree. Even previously successful managers can fail elsewhere. See Terry Butcher at ICT versus Terry Butcher at Hibs.

Butcher's career says it all about football management, more miss than hit yet who'd bet against him being back in management at some point - it's less of a science than a black art.

[windae cleaner]

You could level short sightedness at the board for the Tommy Craig appointment for sure but Ian Murray? I don't think so.

There were not many who complained about the appointment of Murray (apart from you who complains about everything all the time).

It was a gamble on a young manager that has backfired.

Short sightedness on Tommy Craig

Stevie Wonder could see he was going to be a failure

He was a known failure at his other stints in charge

No excuses on that one

O aye a 2 year deal as well

Edited December 8, 2015 by windae cleaner

[Livinginthepast]

The mists of time seem to cloud the memories. Yes we had a couple of very special days at Hampden with Danny in 2013 but in actual fact the league campaign that season was an utter shambles and what happened the following season was even worse. That is why Danny was let go.

Let's look at some cold hard facts here.

The fact is that from Jan 1st 2013 to the end of the cup winning season we actually won 3 league games out of SEVENTEEN.

Danny's transfer dealings in the summer were an absolute shambles and we started the next season without a win in our opening 8 games (7 league).

That meant from 1st Jan 2013 to 5th Oct 2013 we won 3 league games out of TWENTY-FOUR.

In season 2013-2014 we also left both cups in the 1st round, and we went on a run where we lost 8 out of 9 games in the middle of the season.

Yes we won a cup under Danny, and it was very very special and he'll always be fondly remembered for that but he actually STARTED the rot.

Any notion of bringing him back is frankly absurd. IMO.

Nonsense. Danny won the cup. He never got the team relegated. He had a plan.He played decent football.There was a banner headline on this website 'home of sexy football' You cant have forgotten that, you put it up!

[div]

Nonsense. Danny won the cup. He never got the team relegated. He had a plan.He played decent football.There was a banner headline on this website 'home of sexy football' You cant have forgotten that, you put it up!

Season 2012-2013? Yes I put that up. It was as close as we've come to making the fabled "next step". The team with Nigel, Thommo, Carey, Teale, McGowan et al was a joy to watch at times.

The team that went on to win the cup had the likes of Dummett, Goncalves and Newton in the mix. We had Kenny McLean on the BENCH at the cup final and Dougie Imrie couldn't even make the squad !

It was a great squad, and we NEARLY made the leap. The cup win was the pinnacle.

You cannot dine out on previous successes forever though.

As for "nonsense" look at the FACTS in the post I made. Three wins in TWENTY FOUR league games.

From the cup win in March 2013 to May 2014 we were absolutely SHITE, the squad was dismantled (not all through Danny's fault I grant you) and the rot began. Only a Hearts team full of kids and starting 15 points behind us at the start of the season prevented us from being knee deep in a relegation battle all season long.

As for the "decent football", it was a season long wonder. The football we played in season 2013-2014 was as sexy as Susan Boyle.

[div]

Short sightedness on Tommy Craig

Stevie Wonder could see he was going to be a failure

He was a known failure at his other stints in charge

No excuses on that one

O aye a 2 year deal as well

I totally agree mate. I did say that. The Tommy Craig appointment was a disaster, a terrible decision. As was the f**king about after we binned him and the shameful way we treated Gary Teale.

100% f**k ups by the board. No argument at all from me there.

[div]

Butcher's career says it all about football management, more miss than hit yet who'd bet against him being back in management at some point - it's less of a science than a black art.

Agreed. ICT just seemed like a perfect fit for him, absolutely no idea why it worked so well there but he's crashed and burned everywhere else.

[Drew]

Agreed. ICT just seemed like a perfect fit for him, absolutely no idea why it worked so well there but he's crashed and burned everywhere else.

Hmm.... Maybe its more about the ICT set-up than the manager alone.

I, along with numerous others, laughed when John Hughes got the ICT job. Ah yes, we sniggered smugly, so we did. His record was also less than stellar, but again, something seems to have clicked up there.

[Seaside Nipper]

Keep seeing that phrase mentioned "we always choose the cheap option".

I'm intrigued as to what it actually means.

How much did Tommy Craig get as his salary? Clearly people seem to know because we keep hearing this "cheap option" line.

Was Ian Murray also a "cheap option" ?

Looking at the accounts I can't see where we have done anything "cheaply". Instead I can see that we actually spent more than we should have.

Well it was suggested to me when he took the gig, it was offered to him at half of what DL was on..............I'd say that was mucho cheapness for an SPL gig.

I would say prudence and a large dose of hope were behind the BoD's decision then................so, if it had worked, well, that's another story, to be lauded and regaled around the towns taverns. Sadly though, it was simply the train wreck rolling on..............