Q And A Night With Alex And David

[Sergie's no1 fan]

A direct style of play means more balls in the oppositon box, more shots on goal, and more chances. It means less passing about on the edge of our own box going round in circles and inviting the opposition to take the ball from us.

At the end of the day if the team wins you never hear anyone debating the formation, the style of play or anything else. Most fans just want to see their team win and if a more direct style of play brings more wins then that is absolutely fine by me!

We won our last 2 First Division titles with a direct style of play. Every fan in the world would love to see their team play the Barca/Bayern way but we just don't have the players to do it. How many mistakes have our centre backs made over the years in trying to play like Pique? Fair play to Danny Lennon because he tried to stick with it and when it worked it was spectacular but 9 times out of 10 it didn't come off and we were turgid anyway. All teams needed to do was press very high up the pitch, force our defender into a mistake and score from the resulting chance or set piece. On the slim chance that we'd cut through them with 2/3 passes ( like the goal at Ibrox ) it looks spectacular.

I am not getting too excited about Alex Rae yet because we have only beat Alloa and Morton but it's looking more positive than it was when he first took over. Next few games will define our season.

[davidg]

To answer your question we don't produce any forwards in our system

They are the ones who get the good money

Of the Scottish players sold for big bucks I can't think of any forwards.

Gauld, Robertson, McArthur McCarthy

[foxbar_bud]

Off the top of my head the last Scottish strikers who have went for decent money are Flectcher and O Conner (not including Rhodes). Both of which are target man type strikers.

I had high hopes for Stevie May but don't think he's done much in England

[windae cleaner]

Off the top of my head the last Scottish strikers who have went for decent money are Flectcher and O Conner (not including Rhodes). Both of which are target man type strikers.

I had high hopes for Stevie May but don't think he's done much in England

Naismith and Goodwillie have went for decent money

The point is we aren't producing forwards for our first team

Are Basher and McGarry the last ones?

[Kendo]

We won our last 2 First Division titles with a direct style of play. Every fan in the world would love to see their team play the Barca/Bayern way but we just don't have the players to do it. How many mistakes have our centre backs made over the years in trying to play like Pique? Fair play to Danny Lennon because he tried to stick with it and when it worked it was spectacular but 9 times out of 10 it didn't come off and we were turgid anyway. All teams needed to do was press very high up the pitch, force our defender into a mistake and score from the resulting chance or set piece. On the slim chance that we'd cut through them with 2/3 passes ( like the goal at Ibrox ) it looks spectacular.

I am not getting too excited about Alex Rae yet because we have only beat Alloa and Morton but it's looking more positive than it was when he first took over. Next few games will define our season.

Brilliant post.

The teams that are good at playing the out from the back are usually the teams with the best players and near the top of the league.

For us to play it out from the back against Rangers, Hibs, Falkirk is just madness when you look at our defence against their front men.

[Bloomsbury Bud]

I am not getting too excited about Alex Rae yet because we have only beat Alloa and Morton but it's looking more positive than it was when he first took over. Next few games will define our season.

True, but something the previous management team failed to do. Fair to say there's an improvement

[BuddieinEK]

A direct style of play means more balls in the oppositon box, more shots on goal, and more chances. It means less passing about on the edge of our own box going round in circles and inviting the opposition to take the ball from us.

At the end of the day if the team wins you never hear anyone debating the formation, the style of play or anything else. Most fans just want to see their team win and if a more direct style of play brings more wins then that is absolutely fine by me!

Agreed.

That Alloa game is a good example.

They worked hard and pressed us high up the pitch.

Ross had obviously done his homework as that was all teams have had to do for some time now.

To those saying it was only Alloa we beat, I don't believe we would have won that game pre-Rae.

[Sergie's no1 fan]

True, but something the previous management team failed to do. Fair to say there's an improvement

Totally agree, I doubt we would have got 4 points from they games if Murray was still in charge so fair play to Alex for that.

The next 3 games will show how far we have come.

[Kendo]

Agreed.

That Alloa game is a good example.

They worked hard and pressed us high up the pitch.

Ross had obviously done his homework as that was all teams have had to do for some time now.

To those saying it was only Alloa we beat, I don't believe we would have won that game pre-Rae.

I've qualified my its only Alloa by saying that the next 3 games are more of a pointer on our progress.

Remember after we beat Alloa 2-0 Livingston pumped us 4-1 at home.

[Drew]

I've qualified my its only Alloa by saying that the next 3 games are more of a pointer on our progress.

Remember after we beat Alloa 2-0 Livingston pumped us 4-1 at home.

Correct.

Also worth people bearing in mind that two of our goals on Saturday were from defensive howlers on their part. They are sitting where they are in the table with good reason.

Certainly, a win is a (welcome) win, but it is too early to judge if any corners have been turned. Another victory tomorrow, and I'll start to feel a bit more confident.

[nosferatu]

Leicester City have an interesting style...

They neither the possession game nor the pressing game.

And the stats are suprising...

Leicester have had the 3rd least amount of possession this season, less than 44% per game.

They also have the least successful passing accuracy in the league.

And they also have had the least number of offsides.

What they do is defend very deep. They allow the opposition to dominate possession. And they do this both home and away. A lot of sides will try and dominate at home. Leicester don't.

They defend very deep and when they win the ball they play it long for their fast players to chase.

The reason they have so few offsides is that their attackers are usually inside their own half when they begin their runs!

This isn't 'hoof ball'. They don't use a target man.

They play to their strengths. They get everyone behind the ball, defend deep, allow the opposition to pass the ball.

And when they do win the ball they hit begin the opposition into space and chase after it.

A lot of the time the long pass doesn't reach their man, hence the lack of accuracy.

But when it does reach their man, they are invariably behind a disorganised opposition defence.

[nosferatu]

Correct.

Also worth people bearing in mind that two of our goals on Saturday were from defensive howlers on their part..

Indeed.

Hence why you shouldn't fanny about at the back!

[Drew]

Indeed.

Hence why you shouldn't fanny about at the back!

Agreed.

[linwood bud]

The reason professional players struggle to pass a ball 10-20 yards is because of a little thing called the opposition! They try to intercept and tackle... At high speed!

As for Tom Hendrie, most of the goals that season were punts to Yardley and set plays!

Well if they can't pass around an opponent or angle themselves away from one perhaps football isn't for them?

I remember many a great goal being scored from either a Nicholson or Ross cross into the box after a sweeping move up the pitch.

But I will let you work out the stats on that.

[Vambo57]

Fell asleep after my tea last night and never woke up till 8.15, so didn't make the Q & A.

Do away with the Under 20s (keep the other ages) and bring back the Reserve League, where youngsters and older pros can mix and learn. Another plus is recovering injured players can get match fitness.

[nosferatu]

Well if they can't pass around an opponent or angle themselves away from one perhaps football isn't for them?

I remember many a great goal being scored from either a Nicholson or Ross cross into the box after a sweeping move up the pitch.

But I will let you work out the stats on that.

The vast majority of goals from a Nicolson or Ross cross came from set plays... where we won a free kick or corner in the opposition half after a long punt to Yardley!

I actually do have the stats on it and, if I can be bothered, I will dig them out and repost (as I have posted the stats on this forum before).

Edited February 5, 2016 by nosferatu

[BLF]

Alex Rae's view wasn't that he didn't want to play passing football or a passing game (both he and DF said they wanted to play good football, but wanted to be winners first and foremost), I think its more that he just feels there is limited value in teaching youth players to 'dink' it out from the goalie to the full back, who then 'dinks' it to the centre half, because once these youth players start playing senior games, they won't get away with that - if that's all your youth players know, they will get slaughtered in the senior game, and their confidence will get destroyed. I think he means he wants a balanced style of play, passing, but not passing for the sake of it, because that will usually get you into difficulties.

[Sonny]

I was in despair a lot of the time we we tried to play from the back. If the opposition didn't press they quickly had 10 men behind the ball and we could not break them down so just passed side to side for 5 mins. If they did press we would lose the ball and often a goal.

We were so friggin slow at building up an attack from the back which was my main gripe. Playing out from the back is good if someone is free and there is a break on (like at Ibrox) so I do not rule it out.

Getting the ball up the park quickly is the key to creating chances and a long ball achieves that as does quick, accurate, forward passing. The crucial part in the long ball game is winning the second ball otherwise it just comes straight back at us.

We want results and we have to play to our strengths. If a throw out to Watson results in a chip up to Clarkson then great. Just get the ball up the park quickly if you are playing from the back otherwise a long punts does the job.

[Drew]

I was in despair a lot of the time we we tried to play from the back. If the opposition didn't press they quickly had 10 men behind the ball and we could not break them down so just passed side to side for 5 mins. If they did press we would lose the ball and often a goal.

We were so friggin slow at building up an attack from the back which was my main gripe. Playing out from the back is good if someone is free and there is a break on (like at Ibrox) so I do not rule it out.

Getting the ball up the park quickly is the key to creating chances and a long ball achieves that as does quick, accurate, forward passing. The crucial part in the long ball game is winning the second ball otherwise it just comes straight back at us.

We want results and we have to play to our strengths. If a throw out to Watson results in a chip up to Clarkson then great. Just get the ball up the park quickly if you are playing from the back otherwise a long punts does the job.

I thought Clarkson won high balls very effectively on Saturday, and played knock-ons very well.

[smcc]

Watch and learn dinosaurs

Fair play not having our first team not playing this way but the youths?

Anytime i watched the U/20s i'm impressed how they can football in any area of the park and still get results

The days of hoofball are gone even a team of midgets deal every easy with this style as Barca have shown over the years

Away back into your caves

What strikes me most about this video is the number of St Mirren players available and looking for passes, something that has been conspicuous by its absence in the first team and has been largely responsible for the failure of so-called tippy tappy football.

Edited February 5, 2016 by smcc

[magnus]

A direct style of play means more balls in the oppositon box, more shots on goal, and more chances. It means less passing about on the edge of our own box going round in circles and inviting the opposition to take the ball from us.

At the end of the day if the team wins you never hear anyone debating the formation, the style of play or anything else. Most fans just want to see their team win and if a more direct style of play brings more wins then that is absolutely fine by me!

Understandable viewpoint after 3 years of hardly winning a game. However, a fast passing game with an end result is way better than watching the ball being hoofed up the park or worse still pumped up the wing into empty space a la Jimmy Bone ' s teams. The academy is the way to go. Developing our own good technical players that know how to pass, tackle and score has to be the objective. I would rather we continue to try and copy the likes of Ajax than go back to the dark ages.

[oaksoft]

But we didn't pass the ball out from the back.

Eh?

[Bloomsbury Bud]

What Alex Rae said last was he wants to play good football but his immediate priority was getting the squad into being more competitive, then take it from there. The players he has signed are a blend of good players with good physicality. The example he used was that the midfield of McMullen, Agnew and Mallan didn't have sufficient physicality.

As for the U20s his point was they are in the development business, but Rae is in the winning 3 points business. He wants to give the younger players the opportunity to play first team football but he isn't convinced the U20 league is the best preparation to breaking into the first team.

With the exception of Mallan and McGin his point on u20s seemed pretty well thought through, in my opinion.

[pozbaird]

Sometimes Danny's 'Barca fitba' consisted of Samson rolling it out to Cheesy, Cheesy looking like he'd shat himself, he rolled it along to Goodwin, Goodwin looked up, there was fcuk-all movement ahead of him, so he rolled it back to Cheesy. Cheesy looked up, the midfielders and strikers were still standing supping a milk stout and pouring over the back pages of the Sun, so he rolled it back to Samson. Repeat ad infinitum.

I clearly remember an early season game down at Cappielow where they had clearly watched us, and for the first fifteen minutes or so, Morton never even bothered pressing us. They just sat back in their own half and watched as the Bermuda Triangle manoeuvre of Samson - Cheesy - Goodwin continued unabated.

Sometimes though, as in the season opening 0-0 draw at Dunfermline where Thommo' missed a penalty, our passing football was a joy to watch. We were superb that night and deserved to win. Bless Danny's cotton socks for trying.

I wouldn't be too quick to write Alex Rae off as some sort of neanderthal throwback who wants us to 'do a Wimbledon' and hoof the fcuking thing into the sky at every opportunity. The way I read his comments, it sounds more like he realises he can only piss with the cock he's been given... and the cocks he's been given don't answer to the names Xavi, Iniesta and Bale.

Edited February 5, 2016 by pozbaird

[magnus]

Sounds like Rae is old school and all about the first team as opposed to building from the academy. Certainly not wrong but a departure from the direction that the BoD seemed to feel was right for us.