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buddiecat

Q And A Night With Alex And David

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What Alex Rae said last was he wants to play good football but his immediate priority was getting the squad into being more competitive, then take it from there. The players he has signed are a blend of good players with good physicality. The example he used was that the midfield of McMullen, Agnew and Mallan didn't have sufficient physicality.

As for the U20s his point was they are in the development business, but Rae is in the winning 3 points business. He wants to give the younger players the opportunity to play first team football but he isn't convinced the U20 league is the best preparation to breaking into the first team.

With the exception of Mallan and McGin his point on u20s seemed pretty well thought through, in my opinion.

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Sometimes Danny's 'Barca fitba' consisted of Samson rolling it out to Cheesy, Cheesy looking like he'd shat himself, he rolled it along to Goodwin, Goodwin looked up, there was fcuk-all movement ahead of him, so he rolled it back to Cheesy. Cheesy looked up, the midfielders and strikers were still standing supping a milk stout and pouring over the back pages of the Sun, so he rolled it back to Samson. Repeat ad infinitum.

I clearly remember an early season game down at Cappielow where they had clearly watched us, and for the first fifteen minutes or so, Morton never even bothered pressing us. They just sat back in their own half and watched as the Bermuda Triangle manoeuvre of Samson - Cheesy - Goodwin continued unabated.

Sometimes though, as in the season opening 0-0 draw at Dunfermline where Thommo' missed a penalty, our passing football was a joy to watch. We were superb that night and deserved to win. Bless Danny's cotton socks for trying.

I wouldn't be too quick to write Alex Rae off as some sort of neanderthal throwback who wants us to 'do a Wimbledon' and hoof the fcuking thing into the sky at every opportunity. The way I read his comments, it sounds more like he realises he can only piss with the cock he's been given... and the cocks he's been given don't answer to the names Xavi, Iniesta and Bale.

Edited by pozbaird

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Despite the name of this forum, this isn't a black and white issue. What we're talking about is the difference between the club's strategy and the team's tactics.

The fact is, our club's strategy has to be to teach young players how to play the game at close quarters, with good control, good movement, and good passing. At youth level, on pristine 3G pitches, with tonnes of space, great teach them how to pass, control and move. These players will be the ones who are worth the most in the future, and the ones who can attract transfer fees.

But tactically, the direct game is what we should be looking at. As the kids grow, move into the older age groups, they need to be introduced to a direct, faster, more exciting game. They'll be able to do that because if they can pass the ball well and find space, they've got all the right skills.

This way you breed players who can play the game, but who know how to win.

The success of Barcelona was a total freak and has totally skewed everyone's idea of what makes 'perfect' football. They never did anything for me, TBH - all that passing is tedious in the extreme. Also, they literally had the best exponents of that kind of game that have ever existed in football. There will never be a trio like Xavi, Iniesta and Messi ever again. To hear any other teams attempt to model themselves on that style is basically laughable.

Give me Bayern Munich or Real Madrid any day of the week. Great passers, yes, but not afraid to be direct when needed.

tl;dr - let the kids pass it around as it helps them develop skills, but they need to be taught to play the senior game properly when they reach 16/17.

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Despite the name of this forum, this isn't a black and white issue. What we're talking about is the difference between the club's strategy and the team's tactics.

The fact is, our club's strategy has to be to teach young players how to play the game at close quarters, with good control, good movement, and good passing. At youth level, on pristine 3G pitches, with tonnes of space, great teach them how to pass, control and move. These players will be the ones who are worth the most in the future, and the ones who can attract transfer fees.

But tactically, the direct game is what we should be looking at. As the kids grow, move into the older age groups, they need to be introduced to a direct, faster, more exciting game. They'll be able to do that because if they can pass the ball well and find space, they've got all the right skills.

This way you breed players who can play the game, but who know how to win.

The success of Barcelona was a total freak and has totally skewed everyone's idea of what makes 'perfect' football. They never did anything for me, TBH - all that passing is tedious in the extreme. Also, they literally had the best exponents of that kind of game that have ever existed in football. There will never be a trio like Xavi, Iniesta and Messi ever again. To hear any other teams attempt to model themselves on that style is basically laughable.

Give me Bayern Munich or Real Madrid any day of the week. Great passers, yes, but not afraid to be direct when needed.

tl;dr - let the kids pass it around as it helps them develop skills, but they need to be taught to play the senior game properly when they reach 16/17.

Would agree with most of that.

Watching Xavi and Iniesta pass it between them half a dozen times on the halfway line, without the opposition moving is boring in the extreme. (I know I'm probably in the minority there)

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Anyone wanting to see how to play football just watch highlights of Leicester v Liverpool.

Who didn't love a 62 yard pass and 25 yard volley goal?

Also they had one passage of play in 2nd half where 4 players ripped Liverpool to pieces with quick 1 & 2 touch passes which should have led to a penalty it was like Barcelona only faster and better.

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Anyone wanting to see how to play football just watch highlights of Leicester v Liverpool.

Who didn't love a 62 yard pass and 25 yard volley goal?

Also they had one passage of play in 2nd half where 4 players ripped Liverpool to pieces with quick 1 & 2 touch passes which should have led to a penalty it was like Barcelona only faster and better.

Indeed. See my post about Leicester earlier.

Leicester have had the 3rd least amount of possession in the league this season and have the worst passing accuracy.

They defend deep and attack quickly and directly on the break.

They don't build from the back. They let the opposition build from the back and when the opposition lose possession, Leicester hit them on the break with speed.

Its great to watch and obviously effective!

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The problem is that if he stops the youth teams doing this then it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

By all means stop the 1st team doing it but stopping the youths doing it is a massive mistake.

To be fair he did not say he would stop that style of coaching in the academy, he only stated he didn't like it and we don't have the quality to play that way and win. Horses for courses he said, and i agree with him when he said we need to stop losing soft goals in that or any other way. He admitted to being cagey against Hibs and Partick and he will learn from it, also that it will get better if he gets players in and the current players - to play to win and show and feel hurt when we lose, then a determination to right any wrongs next time out. If current players show the qualities he wants then they will be offered new contracts, so they have a chance to prove themselves and help us on our way.

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I'm involved with coaching a local boys club. The kids are playing non competative 7 a side games, and the directive we have from the SJFA is to coach the kids how to play the ball out from the back. Goalkeepers aren't allowed to kick the ball long and must play the ball from the back in order to build play.

When they put you through the SFA coaching courses this is also specified that you must use the build from the back method of coaching, as this is the way forward. I understand why Alex Rae wants to play with a more direct approach at senior level, but if we want kids to have the basic skills mastered then we need to coach them how to be comfortable with the ball at their feet, and not just hoof it long.

I would say that may be fair enough, but also that a bit of adventurous play will also give them good experience.

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I'm all for keeping possession but we've all seen in almost every game saints players in shooting positions passing the ball to a team mate. Sometimes you need to take a risk.

Edited by insaintee

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I would say that may be fair enough, but also that a bit of adventurous play will also give them good experience.

I would say that the thinking behind building play from the back, is not to be messing about and losing possession of the ball. It's more in line with how the rest of Europe coach kids at grass roots level. We are encouraged to coach them into moving the ball at pace and showing them how to pass and move. It's all about expressing themselves and developing their basic skills.

If a coach at grass roots or senior level is teaching players to be over elaborate while building up play from the back, then they aren't doing their job correctly.

Its up to individual coaching styles how some of them interpret how to build play.

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I would say that the thinking behind building play from the back, is not to be messing about and losing possession of the ball. It's more in line with how the rest of Europe coach kids at grass roots level. We are encouraged to coach them into moving the ball at pace and showing them how to pass and move. It's all about expressing themselves and developing their basic skills.

If a coach at grass roots or senior level is teaching players to be over elaborate while building up play from the back, then they aren't doing their job correctly.

Its up to individual coaching styles how some of them interpret how to build play.

I do like the idea of building from the back at times, but like you say not messing about and getting the ball going forward at pace has to be the way to do that

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i seen the highlights that were posted of the young saints team and it looks great that they are encouraged to play the game from the back and the passing and movement was great to see.

i would love our team to play like that week in week out but football is about results at this level, doesn't matter how you get them, 3 points is 3 points and I've got no issue with Rae having to play less attractive football to get points. I said it last week that Webster, Baird and Kelly are particularly poor when they are in possesion and Rae obviously feels the same way.

we are limited in the numbers of decent passers we have in the team but those who are capable of playing a bit are the ones who should be getting the ball, Mallan, Quinn and to a point Gallacher. I would prefer us to play nice football and win games but things have been so bad over the last 2 years or so that just winning games is enough for me at the moment,

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The problem is that if he stops the youth teams doing this then it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

By all means stop the 1st team doing it but stopping the youths doing it is a massive mistake.

I tend to agree. Keep the kids learning to be comfortable with the ball.

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There must be a happy medium here. You can play from the back without giving the opposition an easy take. The biggest problem I see is the lack of movement meaning the passes are predominantly sideways and meaningless. Quick incisive passing which draws cagey teams out then making the killer pass, whether that be through the middle or the odd ball over the top. Mix it up and you're keeping the opposing players guessing. And I do feel we have the players to do this.

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I think David Longwell and his colleagues have done a great job at youth academy level. Our two best players to come through the academy are going great guns at the moment but sadly not for us.

McLean could conceivably be a league winner with Aberdeen this season and Mcginn is back to his best and could be championship player of the year and a league cup winner this year.

Sadly we haven't received the financial reward for these 2 that the likes of Hamilton and Falkirk seem to be able to do on a fairly regular basis. It is very disappointing that we as a club don't see the financial benefit for selling such great talents.

I hope Rae doesn't change too much at the academy.

I don't think anyone expects us to play like Barcelona and play it out from the back every time but mix it up a bit. We should be as fit if not fitter than most teams in this league. Surely player's should be capable of playing the ball out from the back at this level against what are pretty ordinary players in this league.

Webster has been distinctly average in his first 6 months at the club and not the player I thought he would be. I do however think he will improve in second half of the season and help us push for that 4th spot.

I think there is a decent squad of players at the club and a 4th finish is achievable under any decent manager. Is Rae a decent manager? Time will tell. Results are slightly better but the football hasn't improved much if I am being honest. He is just in the job a couple of months so too early to judge but let's hope performance's and results continue to improve after the shambles of the last 18 months or so.

Edited by Mr Zo

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I think there is a decent squad of players at the club and a 4th finish is achievable under any decent manager. Is Rae a decent manager? Time will tell. Results are slightly better but the football hasn't improved much if I am being honest. He is just in the job a couple of months so too early to judge but let's hope performance's and results continue to improve after the shambles of the last 18 months or so.

This!

The football is actually worse. Hopeless punts down the line to nobody. Defenders and Midfilders not allowed closer than 30 yards from goal v Partick and Hibs.

Rae obviously has no confidence in the team, coming out and saying they are unable to pass the ball to each other against the likes of Alloa and QoS is hardly going to help.

If we are going to hoof it up the park can we at least play Thompson and aim the ball at him so we have a chance of actually winning it?

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This!

The football is actually worse. Hopeless punts down the line to nobody. Defenders and Midfilders not allowed closer than 30 yards from goal v Partick and Hibs.

Rae obviously has no confidence in the team, coming out and saying they are unable to pass the ball to each other against the likes of Alloa and QoS is hardly going to help.

If we are going to hoof it up the park can we at least play Thompson and aim the ball at him so we have a chance of actually winning it?

Clarkson won just about every ball launched in his general direction last week. Thommo didn't improve things when he came on.

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This!

The football is actually worse. Hopeless punts down the line to nobody. Defenders and Midfilders not allowed closer than 30 yards from goal v Partick and Hibs.

Rae obviously has no confidence in the team, coming out and saying they are unable to pass the ball to each other against the likes of Alloa and QoS is hardly going to help.

If we are going to hoof it up the park can we at least play Thompson and aim the ball at him so we have a chance of actually winning it?

Have you seen the quality of our defence and midfield? Our problem this season has been the midfield being overrun.

Rae has said his priority was to make us hard to beat, this means that the team will dig in and at times it won't be pretty to watch. This was the strategy that Gus set out for us and while he was successful there were many not happy that we didn't play exciting football.

All Rae is doing is setting up the team to play to their strengths and so far our strengths have been hard to find.

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Clarkson won just about every ball launched in his general direction last week. Thommo didn't improve things when he came on.

Clarkson looked good, that's true. However for every ball in his "general direction" there were three others closer to my general direction at the back of the West Stand.

Thommo was only on for about 5 minutes. We scored during that time by the way.

When Thompson came on against Hibs we finally won some balls. I think there may have even been a header on goal at some points. The tactics of thumping balls up for Shankland to chase was utter crap. Really hard to believe these guys are professionals at times.

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All Rae is doing is setting up the team to play to their strengths and so far our strengths have been hard to find.

I'm not against us playing some ugly football to get out of this mess. Hopefully grinding out some results and getting some confidence back in the team.

I am against bringing through talented players like Mallan and just playing the hit and rush football that has seen Scotland fall to its current position of sat on its arse during a European Championship starring Albania, Iceland and Northern Ireland.

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