£4M Could Be Wasted

[Stuart Dickson]

According to the news tonight it's been proposed that £4m of taxpayers money be spent on facial recognition equipment to prevent known troublemakers getting into football stadiums.

What a f**king waste of time and money that would be. A far better system would be for fans to point out troublemakers to the police. The message from football chairmen should be quite simple. Pricks that sing sectarian songs, pricks that fire off smoke bombs and flares, and pricks that shout racist or sectarian abuse are damaging YOUR football club. Point them out and get them to f**k away from football. And the message from the SFA should be clear - automatic fines and closed stadiums for any club whose supporters fail to behave.

Why the f**k should our taxes be used to tackle a problem in football that spineless Chairmen and fans could quickly, simply and easily eradicate at no cost at all.

[pod]

According to the news tonight it's been proposed that £4m of taxpayers money be spent on facial recognition equipment to prevent known troublemakers getting into football stadiums.

Stay away then.

[FTOF]

Could be worse.

Your government could waste £167bn of taxpayers money on a weapons system, that isn't even fit for the pointless purpose it's designed for.

[Stu]

This is quite the pickle. When I heard about this earlier I thought it was a bloody stupid idea. However, now I see Stuart Dickson is also against it I may have to reconsider my views.

[Ayrshire Saints]

The Green Brigade "self policing"...is it April 1st ???

That said the whole suggestion of this software is absurd. However the statement I saw from the Scottish govt in response to the statement from the meeting yesterday was curt and made no mention of any funding being made available.

[melmac]

And there's not enough camera's recording everybodies everyday activities?

Surely with strict liability, if certain fans of certain clubs partake in a bit of dutch / irish singing, then the chair's of those clubs (if they cannot find said fans) are responsible and should be on the nail for whatever punishment would be meted out by the powers that be (be they football or otherwise).

[Sonny]

Let the friggin police do what they are paid to do at football matches instead on standing around doing f**k all. They do not have to arrest everyone just a few at each game. Once people learn they may be charged, banned and lose their season ticket they will stop. Clubs have video cameras so it should be easy to zoom in and determine a culprit and arrest them. But the police do not have the balls to stand up to the OF unfortunately.

[Kombi Buddie]

Let the friggin police do what they are paid to do at football matches instead on standing around doing f**k all. They do not have to arrest everyone just a few at each game. Once people learn they may be charged, banned and lose their season ticket they will stop. Clubs have video cameras so it should be easy to zoom in and determine a culprit and arrest them. But the police do not have the balls to stand up to the OF unfortunately.

Scotland doesn't have the balls to stand of to the shenanigans of the Old Firm {They might be considered "deid" but the beast is well & truly alive & kicking"}

Until Scotland revises it's education establishment & abolish religious based schools, Scotland will continue to be a petri dish for bigotry & religious intolerance to proliferate.

[Kombi Buddie]

Yet other places have faith schools and don't have the same issues we do.

Don't get me wrong, I would do away with them as well but I don't believe that they are the cause, at least not the only cause, of the sectarian issues in Scotland. If they were then how would you explain anti-catholic bigots? Are nondenominational schools petri dishes for it?

The main problem Scotland has is that there doesn't appear to be any middle ground. You either don't care about someone's religion or you are a rabid feckin bigot. There is no real spectrum of feelings. This, I believe, is due to the home environment more than the schools.

I believe that if the bigot brothers disappeared for good then it would wipe out the focus for it but not necessarily eradicate the problem.

Don't ask me what the answer to it is, I don't know - at least not a workable answer. Maybe just time and right-thinking people speaking out.

I don't think other places have had the historical hatred but I get what you mean.

I completely agree, abolish Rangers & Celtic & the focus gets diminished.

Unfortunately,I don't hold out much hope for right minded people speaking out will change it, religious intolerance has been around since time began. Someone somewhere has been getting grief from someone because of their religion.

One day, eh. We can but only hope (as a non practicing "Christian", praying won't work}

[oaksoft]

If Dickson thinks it is all perfectly simple then that is a clear sign that it is nothing of the sort.

How do you stop flares being thrown?

Linthigow couldnt stop it last night.

They dont even know who these people are.

How could they possibly have stopped a group of first time supporters from doing this?

One of the board members tried to talk to them and they ignored him.

Maybe the police could have ejected them?

What about if there had been 100 of them in a group doing this?

Send the police in? Experience tells us that will likely cause a riot.

Now what about 20,000 singing abuse at Ibrox?

Dock points?

How many?

You will likely end up with a hardcore group who will defy everyone.

How many points do you dock before the league becomes a farce?

There is nothing simple about any of this.

[madball]

For me the penalties are fairly straight forward on this. Do it once and club get a warning, second time it's a home game behind closed doors, third time forfeiture of the prize money for the competition that it occurs in. You could even take things further and consider banning from a competition or transfer embargoes. I agree that police wading in, particularly into large crowds isn't going to work, so put the onus onto clubs to tackle things by putting in place punitive measures that will affect them.

[Stuart Dickson]

For me the penalties are fairly straight forward on this. Do it once and club get a warning, second time it's a home game behind closed doors, third time forfeiture of the prize money for the competition that it occurs in. You could even take things further and consider banning from a competition or transfer embargoes. I agree that police wading in, particularly into large crowds isn't going to work, so put the onus onto clubs to tackle things by putting in place punitive measures that will affect them.

Absolutely. And put the onus on the fans as well. If they don't want their stadium closed, or their club fined perhaps there will eventually be a collective responsibility taken to remove those troublemakers out of the stadium and away from football altogether.

Oaksoft claims that clubs cannot identify who threw flares - that may be true, but anyone throwing anything at a football match is going to be witnessed doing it by any number of people around them. Pressure should be put on those people to report the miscreants to protect the club they claim they "love".

[oaksoft]

Absolutely. And put the onus on the fans as well. If they don't want their stadium closed, or their club fined perhaps there will eventually be a collective responsibility taken to remove those troublemakers out of the stadium and away from football altogether.

Oaksoft claims that clubs cannot identify who threw flares - that may be true, but anyone throwing anything at a football match is going to be witnessed doing it by any number of people around them. Pressure should be put on those people to report the miscreants to protect the club they claim they "love".

But we are customers Dicky. Did u forget that?

[oaksoft]

For me the penalties are fairly straight forward on this. Do it once and club get a warning, second time it's a home game behind closed doors, third time forfeiture of the prize money for the competition that it occurs in. You could even take things further and consider banning from a competition or transfer embargoes. I agree that police wading in, particularly into large crowds isn't going to work, so put the onus onto clubs to tackle things by putting in place punitive measures that will affect them.

Easy eh?

So what do you do with the hardcore of loyalists at Rangers who will see this as war and will dig in their heels?

How many points do you deduct before you accept you cant win that way?

How many closed door games before the club goes bust and the league is wrecked half way through the season?

You could say the same at Celtic.

What about the prospect of rival fans trying to f**k over another club to get them points deducted?

And those clubs arent the only ones.

The police report something like 20 odd clubs have had fans arrested since this new law came in. I think thats the number they gave.

Its all very easy when it doesnt affect us.

Its all very easy when its not you who has to make the decisions or pay for it if Saints get targetted.

[Stuart Dickson]

But we are customers Dicky. Did u forget that?

No, but I do find your attempt to differentiate interesting. Are you saying that customers who witness a crime should not help the authorities in identifying the perpretator? Are you suggesting that customers should support criminal activity inside football stadia, and in particular criminal activity which threatens public safety? Why are you so desperate to protect criminal's operating at Greenhill Road breaching the clubs own admission policy?

[Stuart Dickson]

Easy eh?

So what do you do with the hardcore of loyalists at Rangers who will see this as war and will dig in their heels?

How many points do you deduct before you accept you cant win that way?

How many closed door games before the club goes bust and the league is wrecked half way through the season?

You could say the same at Celtic.

What about the prospect of rival fans trying to f**k over another club to get them points deducted?

And those clubs arent the only ones.

The police report something like 20 odd clubs have had fans arrested since this new law came in. I think thats the number they gave.

Its all very easy when it doesnt affect us.

Its all very easy when its not you who has to make the decisions or pay for it if Saints get targetted.

If St Mirren fail to protect their customers from criminal activity inside the venue where they have opted to take control of their own security arrangements then St Mirren would deserve all the sanctions they'd be due. Maybe it might even motivate you to stop throwing smoke bombs onto the pitch and maybe it would stop you from shouting sectarian abuse at matches

[madball]

Easy eh?

So what do you do with the hardcore of loyalists at Rangers who will see this as war and will dig in their heels?

How many points do you deduct before you accept you cant win that way?

How many closed door games before the club goes bust and the league is wrecked half way through the season?

You could say the same at Celtic.

What about the prospect of rival fans trying to f**k over another club to get them points deducted?

And those clubs arent the only ones.

The police report something like 20 odd clubs have had fans arrested since this new law came in. I think thats the number they gave.

Its all very easy when it doesnt affect us.

Its all very easy when its not you who has to make the decisions or pay for it if Saints get targetted.

If Rangers fans dig their heels in and do something daft then that's a matter that should affect Rangers. No one club, or group of supporters, is bigger than the governing body or the law.

Never suggested a points penalty as I think it's unworkable too.

Do you honestly imagine that a club, after more than 1 closed door game, would continue to permit their fans to behave like that without doing something meaningful?

As per point 1.

The onus would be on clubs to ensure that they are confident about who they sell tickets to for games at home, and if they distribute for away games.

I know it affects more than the gruesome twosome but as per point 1.

If it was 1 club, 2 clubs or all clubs it doesn't really matter.

It does affect us as we need to be proactive and set up frameworks around how we distribute tickets to fans and make sure that we are confident that we are selling to our own fans for the home end only.