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Smisa & Gordon Scott Submit Bid


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lets see if he comes up with the funds...

I think one of the key cornerstones of any SMiSA/GLS bid will be the up front lump sum payment and whilst SMiSA seem to have a decent pot of cash in the bank that on it's own isn't going to come close to being enough to persuade the sellers to let their shares go.

I don't know anything at all about the proposal that's been put to the board but I imagine there will be a big up front payment which will be made up of some SMiSA cash and a lot of GLS cash. Even then I would doubt they are raising the whole amount in one go. I imagine there will be repayment schedules to the consortium before the fans then start repaying or saving the money to repay Gordon.

The timescales I've seen quoted before the club is truly "fan owned" is 10 years. That is a long time but even if the deal was say £800K that's still £80K per annum that needs to be found even before any interest would be payable. At just short of £7k a month that is still 700 fans contributing £10 a month.

I'm being very simplistic with the numbers but it kind of shows the scale of the thing even at a reduced price.

That said, 10000Hours had completed electronic direct debit commitments for £11500 a month when the final bid was rejected by the board so it would be reasonable to expect SMiSA to be able to replicate that, or even better it.

If we had started to collect those direct debits back in 2012 anyway and held them for a rainy day we'd have £552K collected by now even before interest. We could have launched our own bid now, without the need for grants or loans sad.png

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Don't think it's safe to just assume everyone who signed up before will automatically do so again. The on-field and particularly home performances have been so miserable that many fans are properly scunnered. Questioning whether to even re-new season tickets, never mind shell out more cash on schemes like this.

Say what you like about 10,000 Hours but at least at the time there was a feelgood PR focus, something that seems to be missing this time around.

Think the BOD may have to accept that under their stewardship since the cup final win, the club has been run into the ground. This materially affects any value they can hope to recoup prior to exit.

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I honestly think we have been so bad these last few years that there are a lot of guys who have stopped going and will never be back so there by losing guys who maybe would have pledged money .

I am sure you are right there, but hopefully some will see it as an opperchancity to help make a difference and may be tempted to come back.

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How the hell can u propose a takeover bid without finding out first who is going contribute? So if the board accept and the fans don't sign up for it it falls on its arse? I tell u right now if that's the case its going nowhere. as I said at start. Joke bid!

If you had looked at the start you would see there was a survey done and the results of the survey proved to be more than sufficient evidence of fan interest.

You don't seem too keen on the idea, so why don't you just leave it at that. I am fairly sure nobody will be taking your opinion seriously, because you don't offer any alternative, and in fact just post a lot of nonsense. But then you know you do.

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If you had looked at the start you would see there was a survey done and the results of the survey proved to be more than sufficient evidence of fan interest.

You don't seem too keen on the idea, so why don't you just leave it at that. I am fairly sure nobody will be taking your opinion seriously, because you don't offer any alternative, and in fact just post a lot of nonsense. But then you know you do.

cannot believe a bid has been put in place and offered to the board without any investors actually in place, that's like trying to buy a house with no money. This is utter nonsense from start to finish and will guarantee this falls on its arse....again!
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cannot believe a bid has been put in place and offered to the board without any investors actually in place, that's like trying to buy a house with no money. This is utter nonsense from start to finish and will guarantee this falls on its arse....again!

Do you understand what Conditional offer means?

They'll now go speak to the 'investors' and start to work through how much can be raised from membership. It's really not all that difficult to grasp.

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cannot believe a bid has been put in place and offered to the board without any investors actually in place, that's like trying to buy a house with no money. This is utter nonsense from start to finish and will guarantee this falls on its arse....again!

I understand it is a statement of interest that has been put forward which is a big difference from a bid. The first question was always 'how much are you looking for?' . Only when that has been determined can any meaningful negotiation take place before a bid can be proposed.

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I think one of the key cornerstones of any SMiSA/GLS bid will be the up front lump sum payment and whilst SMiSA seem to have a decent pot of cash in the bank that on it's own isn't going to come close to being enough to persuade the sellers to let their shares go.

I don't know anything at all about the proposal that's been put to the board but I imagine there will be a big up front payment which will be made up of some SMiSA cash and a lot of GLS cash. Even then I would doubt they are raising the whole amount in one go. I imagine there will be repayment schedules to the consortium before the fans then start repaying or saving the money to repay Gordon.

The timescales I've seen quoted before the club is truly "fan owned" is 10 years. That is a long time but even if the deal was say £800K that's still £80K per annum that needs to be found even before any interest would be payable. At just short of £7k a month that is still 700 fans contributing £10 a month.

I'm being very simplistic with the numbers but it kind of shows the scale of the thing even at a reduced price.

That said, 10000Hours had completed electronic direct debit commitments for £11500 a month when the final bid was rejected by the board so it would be reasonable to expect SMiSA to be able to replicate that, or even better it.

If we had started to collect those direct debits back in 2012 anyway and held them for a rainy day we'd have £552K collected by now even before interest. We could have launched our own bid now, without the need for grants or loans sad.png

Yes and one other thing, there's no way Tommy Craig would have been appointed by the 10000 hours team and we could have still been in the top flight.

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pie in the sky u mean!

Eh, no.

I heard there was a flat coming up for sale a few years ago that I was interested in. I contacted the buyer to ask how much. Their price was more than I was prepared to pay. I expressed my interest and walked away. Some time later they came back to me and said they would accept the lower offer that I was proposing. Only then did I sort out finance for the deal. When that was in place I made a formal bid for the property.

A lot can happen between expressing an interest and making a formal, legally binding bid. Allegedly the Club have had many expressions of interest but no bid has made it over the line.

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When will the ordinary fan, who is not a member of SMiSA get to know what is happening to the club in detail (plans for disabled cover in particular) or is it the case you never get to know unless you have taken out membership of SMiSA, that despite being a ST holder for years. Whatever the merits of the current conditional offer is it looks to me once again as if the disabled supporter who already via SMDSA were after 6years and 4 months making inroads being put on the back burner yet again.

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When will the ordinary fan, who is not a member of SMiSA get to know what is happening to the club in detail (plans for disabled cover in particular) or is it the case you never get to know unless you have taken out membership of SMiSA, that despite being a ST holder for years. Whatever the merits of the current conditional offer is it looks to me once again as if the disabled supporter who already via SMDSA were after 6years and 4 months making inroads being put on the back burner yet again.

As you would expect the members who are represented by the committee will be the first to know. This is not an elitist thing, it is just that the committee have represented a group of supporters over many years and as it is a SMISA initiative it is only right that we engage with the members first before any decision on progress can be made. Can I just point out that the negotiations are not something that has been taken lightly. Full recognition of what is required has been discussed and the best practise put in place. The committee has been expanded to include members who are best placed to negotiate and plan ahead on the members behalf. The planning has also included the need to engage with those supporters outwith SMISA but at present we have nothing concrete to deliver. As for SMDSA, it has always been recognised by the committee that we have a responsibility to all branches of St Mirren's support whether it be individual or group based. In the meantime I would urge anyone who would like to join and contribute in our efforts at SMISA to get in touch as we welcome everyone with openness and honesty. I hope this clears up any apprehensions you may have Blair and I hope you continue to keep well and fight your corner.

Jim Crawford

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As you would expect the members who are represented by the committee will be the first to know. This is not an elitist thing, it is just that the committee have represented a group of supporters over many years and as it is a SMISA initiative it is only right that we engage with the members first before any decision on progress can be made. Can I just point out that the negotiations are not something that has been taken lightly. Full recognition of what is required has been discussed and the best practise put in place. The committee has been expanded to include members who are best placed to negotiate and plan ahead on the members behalf. The planning has also included the need to engage with those supporters outwith SMISA but at present we have nothing concrete to deliver. As for SMDSA, it has always been recognised by the committee that we have a responsibility to all branches of St Mirren's support whether it be individual or group based. In the meantime I would urge anyone who would like to join and contribute in our efforts at SMISA to get in touch as we welcome everyone with openness and honesty. I hope this clears up any apprehensions you may have Blair and I hope you continue to keep well and fight your corner.

Jim Crawford

Thanks for the response Jim and I completely understand why SMiSA members will be first to know of any developments. I am sure that SMDSA will continue to fight its corner.

Cheers bud

Blair Crawford

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I think one of the key cornerstones of any SMiSA/GLS bid will be the up front lump sum payment and whilst SMiSA seem to have a decent pot of cash in the bank that on it's own isn't going to come close to being enough to persuade the sellers to let their shares go.

I don't know anything at all about the proposal that's been put to the board but I imagine there will be a big up front payment which will be made up of some SMiSA cash and a lot of GLS cash. Even then I would doubt they are raising the whole amount in one go. I imagine there will be repayment schedules to the consortium before the fans then start repaying or saving the money to repay Gordon.

The timescales I've seen quoted before the club is truly "fan owned" is 10 years. That is a long time but even if the deal was say £800K that's still £80K per annum that needs to be found even before any interest would be payable. At just short of £7k a month that is still 700 fans contributing £10 a month.

I'm being very simplistic with the numbers but it kind of shows the scale of the thing even at a reduced price.

That said, 10000Hours had completed electronic direct debit commitments for £11500 a month when the final bid was rejected by the board so it would be reasonable to expect SMiSA to be able to replicate that, or even better it.

If we had started to collect those direct debits back in 2012 anyway and held them for a rainy day we'd have £552K collected by now even before interest. We could have launched our own bid now, without the need for grants or loans sad.png

you have just highlighted why the bid is a bad one for fans, if there is interest to be paid then i confidently predict that a high percentage of SMISA contributors will be dead and buried before the "dream" of fan ownership is realised.

This bid has the one thing that 10000 hours lacked-a willing investor who was prepared to wedge-in the fans and get the bid overthe line. However it doesn't seem to enjoy the access to community sports money that 10k had potential access to, which would have made the fan ownership a realistic medium term prospect. Had this money been available at the time the 10k bid was being finalised then it might well have changed the whole landscape in terms of community funding.

i do not think anyone with less than 20 million in the bank can countenance paying the asking price up front and wait for the fans to pay him back. They would, in my uninformed opinion, borrow the bulk of the funds and secure the debt on the club. My view is that what is the point of working your whole life long to become moderately wealthy then blow north of 1 million on fitba? it doesn't msake sense and as a SMISA meber i would appreciate an assurance that this bid will not rely on ANY borrowing that can be loaded back on to the fans or the shareholders.

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As you would expect the members who are represented by the committee will be the first to know. This is not an elitist thing, it is just that the committee have represented a group of supporters over many years and as it is a SMISA initiative it is only right that we engage with the members first before any decision on progress can be made. Can I just point out that the negotiations are not something that has been taken lightly. Full recognition of what is required has been discussed and the best practise put in place. The committee has been expanded to include members who are best placed to negotiate and plan ahead on the members behalf. The planning has also included the need to engage with those supporters outwith SMISA but at present we have nothing concrete to deliver. As for SMDSA, it has always been recognised by the committee that we have a responsibility to all branches of St Mirren's support whether it be individual or group based. In the meantime I would urge anyone who would like to join and contribute in our efforts at SMISA to get in touch as we welcome everyone with openness and honesty. I hope this clears up any apprehensions you may have Blair and I hope you continue to keep well and fight your corner.

Jim Crawford

Thanks for the response Jim and I completely understand why SMiSA members will be first to know of any developments. I am sure that SMDSA will continue to fight its corner.

Cheers bud

Blair Crawford

Nice words, i am a member and have been told the square root of feck all. Expansion of the comittee? Again, news to me. Although I fund SMISA for reasons of youth development, it is starting to look like just another one of those clubs/committees that become more about the clique in charge than about the total membership.

None of the above is a surprise to me knowing one or two who are involved though.

Though knowing some of the committee, that is not a total surprise to me

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beyond our ken"

Nice words, i am a member and have been told the square root of feck all. Expansion of the comittee? Again, news to me. Although I fund SMISA for reasons of youth development, it is starting to look like just another one of those clubs/committees that become more about the clique in charge than about the total membership.

None of the above is a surprise to me knowing one or two who are involved though.

Though knowing some of the committee, that is not a total surprise to me

Your post is a matter of concern to me, when it appears some SMiSA members appear to being kept in the dark by the very members that elected them in the first place. I do not know enough for me to make further comment.

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Nice words, i am a member and have been told the square root of feck all. Expansion of the comittee? Again, news to me. Although I fund SMISA for reasons of youth development, it is starting to look like just another one of those clubs/committees that become more about the clique in charge than about the total membership.

None of the above is a surprise to me knowing one or two who are involved though.

Though knowing some of the committee, that is not a total surprise to me

this is excactly why it is a non-starter and falling apart at the seams already!
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Nice words, i am a member and have been told the square root of feck all. Expansion of the comittee? Again, news to me. Although I fund SMISA for reasons of youth development, it is starting to look like just another one of those clubs/committees that become more about the clique in charge than about the total membership.

None of the above is a surprise to me knowing one or two who are involved though.

Though knowing some of the committee, that is not a total surprise to me

The new committee members were voted on at the AGM - all members were invited and SMISA issued a report to all members, on here and on the SMISA website advising of the outcome of the AGM.

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Nice words, i am a member and have been told the square root of feck all. Expansion of the comittee? Again, news to me. Although I fund SMISA for reasons of youth development, it is starting to look like just another one of those clubs/committees that become more about the clique in charge than about the total membership.

None of the above is a surprise to me knowing one or two who are involved though.

Though knowing some of the committee, that is not a total surprise to

Nice words, i am a member and have been told the square root of feck all. Expansion of the comittee? Again, news to me. Although I fund SMISA for reasons of youth development, it is starting to look like just another one of those clubs/committees that become more about the clique in charge than about the total membership.

None of the above is a surprise to me knowing one or two who are involved though.

Though knowing some of the committee, that is not a total surprise to me

Firstly any member can apply to be on the committee, there are no cliques, the expanding of the committee included myself and others who put themselves forward. There are a few committee members who have the credentials to prepare and submit the proposal, those people are bound by a commitment to retain confidential information about the proposed purchase of shares, which protects the interests of the sellers and the buyers. That section of the committee are focused on the share purchase whilst others like me are concentrating on the raising of funds for youth development and other core business, this section do not have any knowledge of either what figures form the proposal or what conditions have been attached to it. We like all other members will be told the details of the bid and be asked to vote on acceptance of it, this can only be done if and when the sellers agree to our proposal and we have a legally binding agreement to purchase in place.

Nothing will go ahead until the membership have voted on it, this is in the constitution of SMiSA, no clique or small section will decide on this, the whole membership will be asked to vote on it.

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you have just highlighted why the bid is a bad one for fans, if there is interest to be paid then i confidently predict that a high percentage of SMISA contributors will be dead and buried before the "dream" of fan ownership is realised.

This bid has the one thing that 10000 hours lacked-a willing investor who was prepared to wedge-in the fans and get the bid overthe line. However it doesn't seem to enjoy the access to community sports money that 10k had potential access to, which would have made the fan ownership a realistic medium term prospect. Had this money been available at the time the 10k bid was being finalised then it might well have changed the whole landscape in terms of community funding.

i do not think anyone with less than 20 million in the bank can countenance paying the asking price up front and wait for the fans to pay him back. They would, in my uninformed opinion, borrow the bulk of the funds and secure the debt on the club. My view is that what is the point of working your whole life long to become moderately wealthy then blow north of 1 million on fitba? it doesn't msake sense and as a SMISA meber i would appreciate an assurance that this bid will not rely on ANY borrowing that can be loaded back on to the fans or the shareholders.

Why would they not enjoy the same access to community sports money? The club has been accessing this without 10,000 hours help for many years now, I can't imagine why that might stop. I'd hope that SMiSA would follow the same kind of Social Enterprise model that 10,000 hours were developing but I'll await further details with interest

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Why would they not enjoy the same access to community sports money? The club has been accessing this without 10,000 hours help for many years now, I can't imagine why that might stop. I'd hope that SMiSA would follow the same kind of Social Enterprise model that 10,000 hours were developing but I'll await further details with interest

As I recall, the 10k bid was predicated on soft loans and grants from government support for community sports ventures. indeed, the 10k bid finally failed on the fact that this funding was refused

You are possiblyreferring to different support for specific initiatives other than the p.urchase of a controlling shareholding by a supporter's group

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