Drew Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'll eat Paddy Ashdown's hat if this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Stuart, I'm sure you will be able to raise these points IF the proposal moves forward. I have doubts which I intend to raise at the membership consultation whenever that is announced if the proposal in principle is accepted by Douglas St. Scottish fitba is a busted flush and sadly I don't see much improvement while those in power of the leagues and club chairpersons are so short sighted and don't listen to their customer base on so many issues. Modern fitba is PISH. Slash self interest has been with those in power from the off 1877 personally I don't see anything changing. Celtic and The Rangers leave these powers will be taken over by Aberdeen , Hearts and the like the clubs with the biggest supports. Really hope change will come but I have my doubts. As for the game with no old firm. Wages will drop , crowds will drop , sponsorship will drop , best players will do everything to head south. Scottish football will become like the Northern Ireland league there will be no interest outside the country. Is that a bad thing. Maybe not as I can stand and watch a junior football match and enjoy it. Will be hammered for saying this but I for one don't think it will be good for Scottish football if the old firm leave. Scottish teams will hardly make European competitions, Our national team will fall lower than its ever done. Edited February 18, 2016 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) ç Edited February 18, 2016 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 There is absolutely no reason why crowds should drop. Are people seriously suggesting that fans will stop watching Airdrie against Montrose because Rangers and Celtic no long play in the SPL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosferatu Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 IMO, crowds for games not involving the OF would INCREASE as the leagues would be more competitive. Who cares if no one outside Scotland is interested? What difference does that make? I personally have no idea what is happening in the Austrian league. Why would anyone care at the moment what happens in Scotland? Our non OF clubs struggle in Europe as it is and I can't see what difference it would make to the national side. Yes, the league will have less money and we'll probably have a lower standard of player. But who cares? Will anyone really notice the difference? Its competition that drives crowds. A bit of a drop in quality won't make any difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 IMO, crowds for games not involving the OF would INCREASE as the leagues would be more competitive. Who cares if no one outside Scotland is interested? What difference does that make? I personally have no idea what is happening in the Austrian league. Why would anyone care at the moment what happens in Scotland? Our non OF clubs struggle in Europe as it is and I can't see what difference it would make to the national side. Yes, the league will have less money and we'll probably have a lower standard of player. But who cares? Will anyone really notice the difference? Its competition that drives crowds. A bit of a drop in quality won't make any difference! Agreed that's why I wrote can watch a junior game and do as such enjoy it. We fall to our level but it does not stop competitive football. Point regarding national team Slartibartfast is probably right also. Still I would like to see as high a calibre of player in Scotland as possible. What's the point in paying #20.00 to watch substandard football though it can be argued we have been for the past few seasons im still going and will next season also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 It's already brutal in the scottsih game, Cut off the aspirational route and we might as well chuck it. There will be no incentives left for players or clubs. a sad, shit state of affairs, we gave up our game decades ago and soon it will be no more than TV entertainment. Then it will die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 It's already brutal in the scottsih game, Cut off the aspirational route and we might as well chuck it. There will be no incentives left for players or clubs. a sad, shit state of affairs, we gave up our game decades ago and soon it will be no more than TV entertainment. Then it will die Hopefully not before I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Slash self interest has been with those in power from the off 1877 personally I don't see anything changing. Celtic and The Rangers leave these powers will be taken over by Aberdeen , Hearts and the like the clubs with the biggest supports. Really hope change will come but I have my doubts. As for the game with no old firm. Wages will drop , crowds will drop , sponsorship will drop , best players will do everything to head south. Scottish football will become like the Northern Ireland league there will be no interest outside the country. Is that a bad thing. Maybe not as I can stand and watch a junior football match and enjoy it. Will be hammered for saying this but I for one don't think it will be good for Scottish football if the old firm leave. Scottish teams will hardly make European competitions, Our national team will fall lower than its ever done. How many fans do you think will go to away games after the initial period ? I wouldn't think there's too many could afford to travel abroad every other week, pay for accommodation and what will likely be much higher ticket prices. Sure the games would be on the telly but some people prefer to be at an actual game. Personally I think there's a lot of hypocrisy from the ex OF, they stitched up Scottish football to get what they wanted now they're moaning because it's happening to them, what goes around comes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergie's no1 fan Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'll eat Paddy Ashdown's hat if this happens. It's coming to that time of year again when the 2 cheeks of the same arse need to think about punting next season's season tickets. How many times do Atlantic leagues and 'oh here's a great idea lets try and go down to England', come up at this time of year? Pathetic and the worrying thing for them is less and less knuckle draggers are swallowing their nonsense. The only team that has missed Rangers over the last few years is Celtic, proving what we all knew and they now realise more than ever is they need each other more than the rest of Scottish football needs them. They are a cancer on our game, sadly the English know they aren't worth the hassle they'd bring to the table down there. Anyway apologies for the rant, back on topic. If I won £50,000,000 from the lottery I really doubt I would buy this club because of the flack I'd get. Fair play to any Saints fans/group that are willing to paint a target on their back for the good of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 There is absolutely no reason why crowds should drop. Are people seriously suggesting that fans will stop watching Airdrie against Montrose because Rangers and Celtic no long play in the SPL? According to the SPFL the current UK TV deal is worth £15m per season to the senior Scottish game. If you take £15m out of our senior game then it's quite clear that a club like St Mirren becomes much less viable than it was before. Take out the other £2.5m for showing Scottish Football around the world - something that is only attractive because of the number of ex pat OF fans around the globe - and you devalue it even further. The current chairman of the club believed that Scottish Football would slide into "Armageddon" if we didn't make concessions to Rangers to change the rules so that they didn't have to suffer the same fate as Gretna and Airdrionians before them. It didn't quite but it did lead to the bizarre situation of seeing Sky Sports broadcasting Arbroath v "Rangers" matches and it's ilk every other week - not because anyone worldwide was interested in Arbroath. SMiSA shouldn't proceed with the bid whilst there is such a serious threat to the income levels at ALL our football clubs in Scotland. Without Rangers and Celtic in the Scottish Leagues there is no way anyone could justify a £2m+ valuation on St Mirren FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 It's coming to that time of year again when the 2 cheeks of the same arse need to think about punting next season's season tickets. How many times do Atlantic leagues and 'oh here's a great idea lets try and go down to England', come up at this time of year? Pathetic and the worrying thing for them is less and less knuckle draggers are swallowing their nonsense. The only team that has missed Rangers over the last few years is Celtic, proving what we all knew and they now realise more than ever is they need each other more than the rest of Scottish football needs them. They are a cancer on our game, sadly the English know they aren't worth the hassle they'd bring to the table down there. Anyway apologies for the rant, back on topic. If I won £50,000,000 from the lottery I really doubt I would buy this club because of the flack I'd get. Fair play to any Saints fans/group that are willing to paint a target on their back for the good of the club. But you could make a hefty donation, couple of million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) According to the SPFL the current UK TV deal is worth £15m per season to the senior Scottish game. If you take £15m out of our senior game then it's quite clear that a club like St Mirren becomes much less viable than it was before. The flaw in your argument is that you think Scottish football would lose every penny of that £15m. You reckon without the OF we would be just about the only country in the western world to have absolutely no TV deal whatsoever? Everything else you then talk about lacks credibility. You just can't present any sort of intelligent financial argument can you? You can't even manage a balanced argument. Edited February 19, 2016 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) So, how's the bid going? It was made weeks ago. Has it been accepted? Edited February 19, 2016 by TopCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 So, how's the bid going? It was made weeks ago. Has it be accepted? Frustrating for the fans though we have been told time and again these things take time. Guessing if it goes through for fan ownership or the English bid we wont hear anything till the end of the season. Then again it will also take time for SMISA to organize fans joining the buyout as far as I'm aware nothing has been done on that which tells us we are still some time off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergie's no1 fan Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 But you could make a hefty donation, couple of million. Definitely but even then I'd be passing the buck (literally) to someone else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 There's an english bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Definitely but even then I'd be passing a few bucks to you. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 The flaw in your argument is that you think Scottish football would lose every penny of that £15m. You reckon without the OF we would be just about the only country in the western world to have absolutely no TV deal whatsoever? Everything else you then talk about lacks credibility. You just can't present any sort of intelligent financial argument can you? You can't even manage a balanced argument. Hardly. Even if the game only lost £10m per annum of revenue it would still devalue the game, devalue the remaining clubs and put many clubs - like St Mirren - under severe financial pressure. Don't believe me? Just go back and read Stewart Gilmours words from 2012. Given the current uncertainty about the future shape of European and Domestic football I believe SMiSA would be better serving it's members by holding onto our money and waiting for things to settle down and only committing when there is a degree of certainty about the future and about what the members would be buying into. Its common sense. You wouldn't invest in a house when all the expert analysis of the housing market was predicting a crash. Similarly SMiSA shouldn't be paying top prices for a football club that play in a league where there is so much financial uncertainty surrounding the game in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hardly. Even if the game only lost £10m per annum of revenue it would still devalue the game, devalue the remaining clubs and put many clubs - like St Mirren - under severe financial pressure. Don't believe me? Just go back and read Stewart Gilmours words from 2012. Given the current uncertainty about the future shape of European and Domestic football I believe SMiSA would be better serving it's members by holding onto our money and waiting for things to settle down and only committing when there is a degree of certainty about the future and about what the members would be buying into. Its common sense. You wouldn't invest in a house when all the expert analysis of the housing market was predicting a crash. Similarly SMiSA shouldn't be paying top prices for a football club that play in a league where there is so much financial uncertainty surrounding the game in Scotland. The way to help our club survive in these uncertain times is for some group to take control of the shares and in my opinion the fans of the club are going to be the best people to run it, nobody else will want to run it for the good of the club alone. I don't know why it is taking so long for the consortium to accept or reject the bid, but the ball is most certainly in their court now and only they know whether they will or not. Anyone wishing to see our club prosper in these hard times will realise that new direction from a new board has to happen sooner rather than later. Waiting until the future is brighter (going by your thinking) would mean the club would be more lucrative and able to attract a higher price than it would now. We are at the bottom of the chute now, the only part left of that slide is to fall off the end into an even lower league. I fear that the share price asked for by the consortium will not decrease no matter what league we are in and it would simply be more difficult for the club to climb back up the ladder, because not very many fans will want to pay any more than half what a season ticket now costs, to watch the likes of Saints V Albion rovers etc., some would (like me for example) but not many others. There is no point in waiting until the club cannot pay its' bills to launch a takeover, because a lot of the investment from fans will be lost to debtors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 The way to help our club survive in these uncertain times is for some group to take control of the shares and in my opinion the fans of the club are going to be the best people to run it, nobody else will want to run it for the good of the club alone. I don't know why it is taking so long for the consortium to accept or reject the bid, but the ball is most certainly in their court now and only they know whether they will or not. Anyone wishing to see our club prosper in these hard times will realise that new direction from a new board has to happen sooner rather than later. Waiting until the future is brighter (going by your thinking) would mean the club would be more lucrative and able to attract a higher price than it would now. We are at the bottom of the chute now, the only part left of that slide is to fall off the end into an even lower league. I fear that the share price asked for by the consortium will not decrease no matter what league we are in and it would simply be more difficult for the club to climb back up the ladder, because not very many fans will want to pay any more than half what a season ticket now costs, to watch the likes of Saints V Albion rovers etc., some would (like me for example) but not many others. There is no point in waiting until the club cannot pay its' bills to launch a takeover, because a lot of the investment from fans will be lost to debtors. That's the difference - I don't think it's bottomed out yet. Regardless of how St Mirren are playing and their progress in the league if the games biggest two clubs that carry the vast majority of Scottish Footballs paying customers are really in talks to leave the SPFL behind the club is going to struggle to find the finances to remain financially viable. The club hasn't managed to turn a significant profit in over 20 years despite a number of record breaking TV rights deals that have come about simply because of the significant worldwide fan base "Rangers" and Celtic have, then what chance does the club have of remaining financially viable if they've gone, the TV rights deals are worth a tiny fraction of what they are now, and St Mirren fans are committed to repaying a £1m debt to Gordon Scott? I think a more prudent action would be to sit tight, continue to collect member dues and let Douglas Street hold the financial risk. Be ready to step in and save a bankrupt club if the risk turns sour, or be better placed to play a bigger part in a subsequent offer to Douglas Street when the picture is less cloudy. The consortium tardiness in accepting the proposal may actually work in SMiSA's favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Stuart if a negative can be found you are sure to come up with it. If the old firm has signed a deal then there is relevance to your post. Thing is they have not signed a deal. From what I am seeing in Holland Dutch football is thriving gate wise so cant see Holland's big two pack up and go even if it is a Dutch guy behind the idea.Belgium is the same it is in good shape. Who is going to leave the gold pavements of England. French football is packed out so thriving also. Most of these countries have TV deals with Espan So who is going to join this league , teams from Norway and Denmark. The old form fan base will soon get sick of the poor quality from these countries. Its a none starter blown up headlines by tabloids papers who journalists are old firm fans. In other words its a lot of shite that will soon disappear with the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 That's the difference - I don't think it's bottomed out yet. Regardless of how St Mirren are playing and their progress in the league if the games biggest two clubs that carry the vast majority of Scottish Footballs paying customers are really in talks to leave the SPFL behind the club is going to struggle to find the finances to remain financially viable. The club hasn't managed to turn a significant profit in over 20 years despite a number of record breaking TV rights deals that have come about simply because of the significant worldwide fan base "Rangers" and Celtic have, then what chance does the club have of remaining financially viable if they've gone, the TV rights deals are worth a tiny fraction of what they are now, and St Mirren fans are committed to repaying a £1m debt to Gordon Scott? I think a more prudent action would be to sit tight, continue to collect member dues and let Douglas Street hold the financial risk. Be ready to step in and save a bankrupt club if the risk turns sour, or be better placed to play a bigger part in a subsequent offer to Douglas Street when the picture is less cloudy. The consortium tardiness in accepting the proposal may actually work in SMiSA's favour. If the ugly sisters leave Scotland then it could be viewed as a great opportunity to reinvigorate the game in Scotland without the ball and chain that holds the game back here. All it would need is the clubs to look at what would be good for the game instead of 2 clubs continually looking at what is good for them.The only proviso should be if they go, they go entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Great post IOBS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deekthebuddie Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Apart from the bickering, is there actually any other news that relates to the sale of the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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