Mr Optimistic Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Mmmmm. Am I the only one who sees a big flaw in this plan. It's called football fans and St Mirren Fans in particular!!! Did no one read the thread re Rangers getting the South Stand. With a forum member saying he was going to write to the club and ask for his money for that game back and loads saying they would not renew their season ticket!!!! What will happen the first time the board make an unpopular decision? Easy, many will throw the dummy out the pram and stop their Direct Debits. Can you imagine what would have happened to Direct Debits during the Tommy Craig Era!!? Or when the Celtic shop sign went up?? Or when Murray was taking us to the first Division? There is no chance in the world 1000 St Mirren fans will pay £12 a month for 10 years!!!! No chance at all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Mmmmm. Am I the only one who sees a big flaw in this plan. It's called football fans and St Mirren Fans in particular!!! Did no one read the thread re Rangers getting the South Stand. With a forum member saying he was going to write to the club and ask for his money for that game back and loads saying they would not renew their season ticket!!!! What will happen the first time the board make an unpopular decision? Easy, many will throw the dummy out the pram and stop their Direct Debits. Can you imagine what would have happened to Direct Debits during the Tommy Craig Era!!? Or when the Celtic shop sign went up?? Or when Murray was taking us to the first Division? There is no chance in the world 1000 St Mirren fans will pay £12 a month for 10 years!!!! No chance at all!! but would Tommy Craig, Murray or the shop have happened under FO....dont think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Mmmmm. Am I the only one who sees a big flaw in this plan. It's called football fans and St Mirren Fans in particular!!! Did no one read the thread re Rangers getting the South Stand. With a forum member saying he was going to write to the club and ask for his money for that game back and loads saying they would not renew their season ticket!!!! What will happen the first time the board make an unpopular decision? Easy, many will throw the dummy out the pram and stop their Direct Debits. Can you imagine what would have happened to Direct Debits during the Tommy Craig Era!!? Or when the Celtic shop sign went up?? Or when Murray was taking us to the first Division? There is no chance in the world 1000 St Mirren fans will pay £12 a month for 10 years!!!! No chance at all!! A lot of the annoyance at the Sellik shop and Sevco South Stand situations was down to the complete and utter lack of communication ahead of the decisions being taken, including a complete disregard by the current BoD of its own Fan Council, set up with a main objective being the communication between club and fans. Still shaking my head at that Sevco situation, you couldn't make it up. The communication flow between a SMiSA / GLS ownership model and the wider fanbase must surely improve... by about a million percent. Will unpopular decisions still be taken? Of course. Hopefully not taken with heads stuck in a big fcuking bucket of sand and fingers up arses though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Supporting Saints is becoming an expensive hobby between ST's , Private Club membership and now monthly DD to SMISA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Mmmmm. Am I the only one who sees a big flaw in this plan. It's called football fans and St Mirren Fans in particular!!! Did no one read the thread re Rangers getting the South Stand. With a forum member saying he was going to write to the club and ask for his money for that game back and loads saying they would not renew their season ticket!!!! What will happen the first time the board make an unpopular decision? Easy, many will throw the dummy out the pram and stop their Direct Debits. Can you imagine what would have happened to Direct Debits during the Tommy Craig Era!!? Or when the Celtic shop sign went up?? Or when Murray was taking us to the first Division? There is no chance in the world 1000 St Mirren fans will pay £12 a month for 10 years!!!! No chance at all!! The major difference us that a decision of that nature would not be taken unless the majority of fans felt it was best for the club. In that situation, even if I didn't disagree with it, I would respect the will of the majority. That is a main benefit as far as I can see... improved communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 but would Tommy Craig, Murray or the shop have happened under FO....dont think so So under FO they will get all managerial appointments right and every decision right....don't think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 So under FO they will get all managerial appointments right and every decision right....don't think so I think I now understand what FO means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 So under FO they will get all managerial appointments right and every decision right....don't think so no but as someone once said you will know that the buck stop with "you me and him in West 3" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 no but as someone once said you will know that the buck stop with "you me and him in West 3" ... and Bobby McGee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) The major difference us that a decision of that nature would not be taken unless the majority of fans felt it was best for the club. In that situation, even if I didn't disagree with it, I would respect the will of the majority. That is a main benefit as far as I can see... improved communication. If you think the board are going to consult fans on every issue you are nuts. You cant run anything that way! Nothing would ever get done. This from the man that was being so petty he was writing to the club to ask for a refund from his season ticket for the Rangers game. I am not singling you out as loads threw their dummies out the pram. My view is that people who don't like decisions won't just rant on this forum they will cancel there DD. Edited March 31, 2016 by Mr Optimistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Anybody else pessimistic along with Optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Optimistic Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Anybody else pessimistic along with Optimistic. I'd call it realistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Anybody else pessimistic along with Optimistic. No but he has got a point. Gordon Scott won't need to consult with the fans as he will be the majority shareholder and those SMiSA members are going to have to realise very quickly that there will be matters arising in the boardroom where it would be impossible to canvass fans opinions. There will have to be a degree of trust in their elected representative to make decisions on their behalf. It could all unravel, ofcourse it could. But its a damned sight less likely to if people set the expectations up properly from the off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 No but he has got a point. Gordon Scott won't need to consult with the fans as he will be the majority shareholder and those SMiSA members are going to have to realise very quickly that there will be matters arising in the boardroom where it would be impossible to canvass fans opinions. There will have to be a degree of trust in their elected representative to make decisions on their behalf. It could all unravel, ofcourse it could. But its a damned sight less likely to if people set the expectations up properly from the off. Damn. My expectations were that my twelve quid a month would see me consulted on everything from appointing a new manager to changing the brand of coffee served in corporate. SMiSA and GLS can do one. I'm out before i'm even in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Damn. My expectations were that my twelve quid a month would see me consulted on everything from appointing a new manager to changing the brand of coffee served in corporate. SMiSA and GLS can do one. I'm out before i'm even in. You're not alone...........................wait, oh I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 If you think the board are going to consult fans on every issue you are nuts. You cant run anything that way! Nothing would ever get done. This from the man that was being so petty he was writing to the club to ask for a refund from his season ticket for the Rangers game. I am not singling you out as loads threw their dummies out the pram. My view is that people who don't like decisions won't just rant on this forum they will cancel there DD. I certainly don't expect the board to consult on every decision. I'd hope they would consult on decisions such as putting away fans in to the West stand all season or moving fans from the family stand for one game or even how best to run the supporter's bar. I also wouldn't expect to get information on individual player's contracts or any other sensitive information I'd also hope that the fans would vote for their representative on the board to make that person answerable to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) While Mr Optimistic has slightly simplified he, almost certainly, has raised a potential problem IMO. Out of interest, how many "dummies" would need to be spat out to cause a problem? Edited March 31, 2016 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Name changes and logo changes. Graphic designers dream. If they need one, in the new spirit of fan involvement, my rate for doing one would be a coffee and a curly wurly. Work on a name and logo for fan buyout then please, not too taken with some names being flung about e.g. "buy the buds" Is it a large curly wurly or can fun sized one's be purchased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) If you think the board are going to consult fans on every issue you are nuts. You cant run anything that way! Nothing would ever get done. This from the man that was being so petty he was writing to the club to ask for a refund from his season ticket for the Rangers game. I am not singling you out as loads threw their dummies out the pram. My view is that people who don't like decisions won't just rant on this forum they will cancel there DD. The only petty ranter here is you! I do not expect fans to be consulted on EVERY issue... I didn't even imply that. Major decisions like that one would merit consultation... and as I have already stated, had that been the case then the board would have had my support had that been the consented will of the majority. I do believe you are indeed singling me out. As it happens I DID write to the club. Isn't it interesting that a day later, Season Ticket holders were offered a £10 discount on their next ticket as the club admitted that the situation had been handled badly? The club itself admitted it, yet you still choose to attack fans who were well within their rights to protest. I think THERE would have to be a bad run of incredibly bad decisions for people to cancel THEIR direct debits under the proposed scheme... but hey... I am being the OPTIMISTIC one here! Edited March 31, 2016 by BuddieinEK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmc83 Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Surely any real "fan" wouldn't even consider cancelling their direct debit through choice if they knew it would have a direct impact on the club , obviously some may have to cancel due to unforeseen circumstances such as losing their job but hopefully we will have enough contributions to protect us against that scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Surely any real "fan" wouldn't even consider cancelling their direct debit through choice if they knew it would have a direct impact on the club , obviously some may have to cancel due to unforeseen circumstances such as losing their job but hopefully we will have enough contributions to protect us against that scenario Folk might cancel their DDs if they felt really strongly that the new SMiSA/GLS ownership was consistently failing in a lot of areas, but I cannot see folk spitting their dummy if the odd decision is taken that they deem personally unpopular. You could apply that scenario to every situation. I'm a member of a golf club, the committee take decisions on closing the course as they deem it too wet underfoot. I'm not happy as I thought it was playable, but I don't chuck it and join another club. They consult the membership about a lot of the big stuff, as you would expect, but they can, and do, do a lot of stuff that not everyone will agree with, but there you go. Did I have any say on away fans getting a hugely better stand than the one I was in at LS? Could I stop seats going into the West bank? Did I have any say in the design of the new midden? Was I consulted on the kiddie's pirate strip? Nope, but I fcuking should have been! Haaaa! Edited March 31, 2016 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 My membership fees worth is... Better in than out! I feel more confident that this proposal does not see the club or the fans saddled with an unservicable debt as the ill fated other punts did. That is a huge difference with GLS putting up the fee. What is less appealing is that GLS would (if this goes through) now rule the roost, gets his fee paid back and could be there a very long time with only one Smisa member on the board, whilst the membership just keep paying not seeking to recoup their fees, as well as buying tickets. Also having a politician, any politician and his flunky as Smisa chairman, and no doubt on the club board is so wrong and potentially very devisive. Lets face it politicians lie for a living, and this one gave his own press release to grab the headlines before Smisa were ready to do do officially. I can't see that ending well no matter what colour of party he represents. GLS is taking a big punt, but he will sell those shares he has been trying to punt and gets to sit on the throne for years with a token and lets face it, toothless, token fan representation on the board. We will pay all the money for Gordon to do as he wishes, but atbleast the current incumbents will be gone and perhaps the club can move forward from their catastrophic failings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 My membership fees worth is... Better in than out! I feel more confident that this proposal does not see the club or the fans saddled with an unservicable debt as the ill fated other punts did. That is a huge difference with GLS putting up the fee. What is less appealing is that GLS would (if this goes through) now rule the roost, gets his fee paid back and could be there a very long time with only one Smisa member on the board, whilst the membership just keep paying not seeking to recoup their fees, as well as buying tickets. Also having a politician, any politician and his flunky as Smisa chairman, and no doubt on the club board is so wrong and potentially very devisive. Lets face it politicians lie for a living, and this one gave his own press release to grab the headlines before Smisa were ready to do do officially. I can't see that ending well no matter what colour of party he represents. GLS is taking a big punt, but he will sell those shares he has been trying to punt and gets to sit on the throne for years with a token and lets face it, toothless, token fan representation on the board. We will pay all the money for Gordon to do as he wishes, but atbleast the current incumbents will be gone and perhaps the club can move forward from their catastrophic failings? There's always a 'GLS' figure at the top of a club. Fergus McCann, David Murray, Sheik Mansoor, Brookes Mileson, Roy McGregor.... Someone has to do it. Tell you what, I wouldn't do it. SG retains my utmost respect for doing such a job for such a long time, and frankly, I'm happy that GLS will be the figurehead with his head being shot at. Who would you want to see as the 'Lord Sugar' of SMFC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 There's always a 'GLS' figure at the top of a club. Fergus McCann, David Murray, Sheik Mansoor, Brookes Mileson, Roy McGregor.... Someone has to do it. Tell you what, I wouldn't do it. SG retains my utmost respect for doing such a job for such a long time, and frankly, I'm happy that GLS will be the figurehead with his head being shot at. Who would you want to see as the 'Lord Sugar' of SMFC? Its not the individual, its the fact we will still, (even though we will be paying the fees) have no real say in how the club is run. And by that I mean the power to infuence how our community club is set up. One token Smisa board bod can be outvoted at every turn, whilst we pay for the privilege.... Bit like it is at present really. The names you mention all actually put their own, or at least someone elses money up front to gain complete control, we are basicslly buying Scott's shares and he gets to call the shots whilst we pay the piper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Its not the individual, its the fact we will still, (even though we will be paying the fees) have no real say in how the club is run. And by that I mean the power to infuence how our community club is set up. One token Smisa board bod can be outvoted at every turn, whilst we pay for the privilege.... Bit like it is at present really. The names you mention all actually put their own, or at least someone elses money up front to gain complete control, we are basicslly buying Scott's shares and he gets to call the shots whilst we pay the piper. What's the ownership model then that would see every single rank and file St Mirren fan have real say in how the club is run, would see every fan who pays twelve quid a month make decisions, and see them all be joint partners who own the club, run the club and are equal partners in the decision making processes? I can't see one. Communism maybe? I am under no illusions - SMiSA is a vehicle which I personally put some petrol money into, but some other guys are at the wheel. I might get to vote the driver of the vehicle in or out in the future. I'm genuinely not having a dig, I just cannot see what model would satisfy what it is you seem to want, and are finding fault with, not just in the SMiSA/GLS bid, but the SG and Co ownership too. What would you propose? Edited March 31, 2016 by pozbaird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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