LoganSMFC Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) The main thing is club survival and attractive enjoyable football for the residents of paisley to enjoy for generations to come. Im confident smisa can achieve the first but have the fans really got deep enough pockets for the second? I hope so and good luck to everyone involved in the bid. Edited January 22, 2016 by LoganSMFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Again... Really? The guy making these posts alienated a good deal of the support against fan led buy outs by presiding over a protracted shambolic process that the sellers deemed unfit for purpose. Now you are jumping in, having a go at me, whilst he deems fit to be seen as 'the fans advisor' on all things regarding other proposed bids.... Can't you see the irony, futility and possible damage to the Smisa bid by facilitating and participating in his continued interference. The assumption being that you could do better, by you obviously. 10000 Hours was protracted, I wouldn't call it shambolic though. Having made a bid you would imagine Richard would at least know the process involved and how it could be structured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo57 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 What fans believe that? I know I don't ,but I believe we will end up in debt through loans being taken to run the club If this takeover happens , If fans who sign up for the monthly debit for the buyout decide to stop paying it who takes up the shortfall ?,Or if the standard of player we can only sign is lower than present due to less money being available how many stop going to games meaning less turnover. IMHO I don't see how this can work unless decent money is invested I'm all for positive efforts and a plan when it's matched with a committed pro active plan If I understand this whole buy out thing correctly, it is essentially dependant on a continued flow of 'promised funding' in order to cover the immediate cash demand or purchase price shortfall. Did the last proposal fail to convince or demonstrate to the selling party that future funds were reliable to meet their selling price. If so, what's changed now ? Devils advocate here, but if I was selling an asset I'd want my price met immediately. You can't sell something on a promise, despite good will on all sides. So, taking this a step further, does this term payment plan mean loans are required to meet a selling price ? In terms of risk is GS taking on a risk then that over a term he will be satisfied and his holding settled, or does he not care, it's a kind of win win for him ,assuming St mirrens fortunes take a turn for the better in the period. Genuinely don't like deals that are multi layered and have caveats and promises. I'm not sure I like the sound of a fan buy out as proposed here, I'd have fears about generating funding and its continuity. It seems to me a really fragile kind of business model but to be positive about it, if it's the only show in town, if it sparks change , then saddle up for the ride, cos the current state of play is doing nobody any favours. Good luck. The last paragraph of this post is the point i'm trying to get across mate , like I said you know more about these things than I ever will. The above are just samples... We are all just speculating at the possible deal being proposed and none of us punters know what the Business Plan of GLS and SMiSA is as yet. SMiSA in their statement said that it will be "robust" and want to do this "the right way". So instead of everyone getting confused, hot under the collar, regurgitating old info and carrying on old feuds, why don't we just - at least - wait until the FACTS are published. We do not need misinformation that's for sure. I will wait until all is known and heed advice from those who I deem to be without without agendas and those whom I have some trust in. What does surprise me at the moment is that despite registering for SMiSA direct debit payments a couple of times and it not happening, and this being raised with SMiSA members, apparently I am still not paying anything and am therefore not actually a SMISA member as yet... I want to be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I think thats fair enough. It has however been very disappointing to see so many people be disrespectful of our BOD/Staff/Players & of course other Saints fans. It has been a while, it has been disappointing to see the on field matters be in decline, however, we will improve, the club will be sold, we will move on as a fanbase & club. Things will take as long as they take, no amount of abusive posts will change it.My personal opinion is simple, when it is sold, we will be told. At that point the new owners can outline their 'vision' for the club and there will be plenty of time to put our questions to the club as I am sure they will want a meeting once they have 'settled in'. In the meantime, I hope we can get back to supporting the BOD/Staff & team throughout this uncertain period. COYS! Amen to that buddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 So you don't think that the people expected to fund an arrangement should be party to the business plan? Interesting! Bottom line is that fan ownership for saints = zero working capital + zero borrowing facility. This is not smelling good. A great idea but show me a place where it has been seen to work in the past. As someone has already pointed out, the business plan will be put to those expected to fund it if and when the proposal is accepted. That seems like common sense to me, and I am a member of SMISA so I would be one of those funders. Disagree with your bottom line too. While Gordon Scott is in charge, I'd imagine the situation would be no different to it is now. Once the shares have been purchased from him, nothing stops SMISA's members continuing their monthly subscriptions, and that money could and should be built up to provide working capital. As for where it has worked in the past, a number of fan-owned clubs are doing very well indeed. I'd say AFC Wimbledon, who have risen up the leagues into the professional ranks, and FC United, who have just built a new stadium for themselves, are good examples. Your attitude is short-sighted because it looks only at the present. Would we be at a competitive disadvantage to clubs with rich chairmen splashing cash that the club doesn't generate? Quite possibly, yes - although fortunately the size of the budget does not always equate to the performance of the team. However, that is simply not a sustainable model, and we will see less and less of it in Scotland. You can't make money from Scottish football clubs, perhaps unless you qualify for the Champions League or we get a Premiership-style TV deal. Neither of those outcomes is realistic, so there is no incentive for the benevolent rich owner to buy a club. The only way forward is for clubs to spend only what they bring in. As more clubs realize that and adapt accordingly, competitive disadvantages with the likes of St Johnstone or Ross County, for example, will fade away. This is about the long term future of the club, and there is no doubt in my mind that supporter ownership is the only way forward for small clubs like ours. As I said at the end of last season, the only good thing about relegation was that it would make this a more feasible option in the eyes of the consortium. I don't think anyone - and I'd imagine the consortium would include themselves in this - is happy with the current way of operating the club, and things on the pitch are pretty poor. This makes it the ideal time to transition to supporter ownership as we have neither top flight status nor promising performances to - potentially - jeopardise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 As someone has already pointed out............ Was a long post to requote but very well said Chris, agree with all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
religion is saints Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 This fan ownership is pie in the sky for a small club like Saints. When the shit hits the fan who's going bail them out? What is going to be different with fan ownership? Will club have more money? Only thing I can see would be commercial side, shop etc being better but would be same player budget or less. I really think this is a horrific idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 This fan ownership is pie in the sky for a small club like Saints. When the shit hits the fan who's going bail them out? What is going to be different with fan ownership? Will club have more money? Only thing I can see would be commercial side, shop etc being better but would be same player budget or less. I really think this is a horrific idea... So it works for smaller Clubs (and when i say works i mean they have remained solvent not that they have suddenly become Champ League contenders) like Stirling, Clyde and Annan, it works for bigger Clubs like Hearts, Portsmouth and Bayern Munich...so it is just the ones in the middle that it is "pie in the sky for"...dont get you, fell free to expand on your reasoning or show your working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 So it works for smaller Clubs (and when i say works i mean they have remained solvent not that they have suddenly become Champ League contenders) like Stirling, Clyde and Annan, it works for bigger Clubs like Hearts, Portsmouth and Bayern Munich...so it is just the ones in the middle that it is "pie in the sky for"...dont get you, fell free to expand on your reasoning or show your working I wouldn't waste my breath. Ask them to log out, and log back in as one of their other shite aliases. This one isn't worth the shite on your (or anyone's) shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
religion is saints Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I wouldn't waste my breath. Ask them to log out, and log back in as one of their other shite aliases. This one isn't worth the shite on your (or anyone's) shoes.here we go again, my stalker can't keep away, how many times do I need to tell u I'm not interested in any kind of relationship with u or ur other weirdo pal soft-cock! Edited January 22, 2016 by religion is saints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
religion is saints Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) So it works for smaller Clubs (and when i say works i mean they have remained solvent not that they have suddenly become Champ League contenders) like Stirling, Clyde and Annan, it works for bigger Clubs like Hearts, Portsmouth and Bayern Munich...so it is just the ones in the middle that it is "pie in the sky for"...dont get you, fell free to expand on your reasoning or show your workingtell me what wealth they will bring to the club? How will changing owners be better? How will club be better off? We are solvent just now so what's difference? Edited January 22, 2016 by religion is saints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 here we go again, my stalker can't keep away, how many times do I need to tell u I'm not interested in any kind of relationship with u or ur other weirdo pal soft-cock! Not heard that kind of patter since I was at primary school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
religion is saints Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Not heard that kind of patter since I was at primary school.did u finish at 3pm today?...clown! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
religion is saints Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Its also hysterical that some guys paying £10 a month think they will own a football club and have a say in day to day running's, u will have as much say as u do about running the country.. Lol....this is a joke from start to finish..i really really hope this joke of a bid fails... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Its also hysterical that some guys paying £10 a month think they will own a football club and have a say in day to day running's, u will have as much say as u do about running the country.. Lol....this is a joke from start to finish..i really really hope this joke of a bid fails... Whatever your tedious agenda is, and whoever you are, you are contributing the square root of hee haw to this or any other discussion on here. All you are is yet another attention seeking bore (ironic, as that is a description you are fond of levelling at others). You're a waste of everyone's time, you're not remotely amusing, and you clearly have a deeply unsatisfying existence. I should pity you really, but I can't muster up the interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 tell me what wealth they will bring to the club? How will changing owners be better? How will club be better off? We are solvent just now so what's difference? The current owners want out is about the only answer. The shite they get on here means that certain people believe they could do better. Well, now's their chance to join SMISA and prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 So it works for smaller Clubs (and when i say works i mean they have remained solvent not that they have suddenly become Champ League contenders) like Stirling, Clyde and Annan, it works for bigger Clubs like Hearts, Portsmouth and Bayern Munich...so it is just the ones in the middle that it is "pie in the sky for"...dont get you, fell free to expand on your reasoning or show your working I am quite nervous about fan ownership for a couple of reasons. Firstly I am concerned about the calibre of person who could feasibly get into a position of power. Secondly, if its not run properly and we need a cash injection because we have pissed away every penny without biilding a rainy day fund then I think we could be in very serious trouble. Having said that I am open to persuasion, I get that we are still vulnerable no matter who is in charge, and I understand there are many other clubs doing OK via this model so I am not wanting to be overly negative. My absolute worst nightmare beyond anything else is that a grade A bellend like Lordy or Religion gets into power. Anyway enough negativity from me. Change appears to be on the way and overall that is probably a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Whatever your tedious agenda is, and whoever you are, you are contributing the square root of hee haw to this or any other discussion on here. All you are is yet another attention seeking bore (ironic, as that is a description you are fond of levelling at others). You're a waste of everyone's time, you're not remotely amusing, and you clearly have a deeply unsatisfying existence. I should pity you really, but I can't muster up the interest. This means you are now a soft cock stalker, whatever that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 This means you are now a soft cock stalker, whatever that is. Some things never change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Maybe the nae sayers should have their own page where they can all go n bump their gums because its fairly apparent that no what anybody says, they are not really for listening / seeing beyond their nose. SMiSA is the only show in town so its either back it or accept the declining interest the current board have in the club, which can only spell doom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLBud Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I am quite nervous about fan ownership for a couple of reasons. Firstly I am concerned about the calibre of person who could feasibly get into a position of power. Secondly, if its not run properly and we need a cash injection because we have pissed away every penny without biilding a rainy day fund then I think we could be in very serious trouble. Having said that I am open to persuasion, I get that we are still vulnerable no matter who is in charge, and I understand there are many other clubs doing OK via this model so I am not wanting to be overly negative. My absolute worst nightmare beyond anything else is that a grade A bellend like Lordy or Religion gets into power. Anyway enough negativity from me. Change appears to be on the way and overall that is probably a good thing. Second last line gave me shivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) tell me what wealth they will bring to the club? How will changing owners be better? How will club be better off? We are solvent just now so what's difference?What do you want from a new owner? Someone that will loan the club money to buy players? Will he secure that loan against our stadium? Or just have it as a personal debt? No, no, no. See the state Bolton are in? That's because an owner lent them money over a long period. Ditto Gretna, Dunfermline... Etc. We must never, ever borrow. If SMiSA intend to move the club forward as an entity which spends what comes in and not a penny more, then I support their bid. The way to increase the clubs spending is simple, increase how much goes into the club. Bigger crowds would be a start. Edited January 22, 2016 by TopCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
religion is saints Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Nobody can say then what they will bring to table? How will club be better off? Edited January 22, 2016 by religion is saints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Nobody can say then what they will bring to table? How will club be better off? Enthusiasm, new eyes, ideas, patience, drive and knowledge. Each of those can be expanded out, the knowledge for example will be specific to each person and the group model should invite people on more and tease at members talents. Will is impossible to define, but it certainly could be better off just by having more people feeling free to get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sally02 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Nobody can say then what they will bring to table? How will club be better off? Enthusiasm, new eyes, ideas, patience, drive and knowledge. Each of those can be expanded out, the knowledge for example will be specific to each person and the group model should invite people on more and tease at members talents. Will is impossible to define, but it certainly could be better off just by having more people feeling free to get involved. Well that rules him out then, unless of course he is bringing religion to the party! Edited January 22, 2016 by sally02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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