whydowebother Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 Christianity , would it sanction cruelty beyond words ? such as Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 Very impressive that you even get a Christian advert at the top of the page on here . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 3:51 AM, oaksoft said: I particularly like the idea that any intelligent person could believe that it is more likely that Mary was impregnated by God rather than becoming pregnant as a result of shagging Joseph out of wedlock. That is especially hilarious. ... and yet homosexual couples who want to have children but don't want to have sex with the opposite gender can now have kids via IVF on the NHS and childless couples can have kids via IVF with people they have never met donating the sperm or eggs for their treatment. Am I saying Jesus was a test tube baby? Nope! But if God exists and is at least as intelligent as humans are we saying that humans can now do things that are impossible for God to do? PS - the gospels don't say that 'God impregnated Mary' and the Genesis account says that Eve's (and Adam's) sin was nothing to do with sex or choosing an apple to eat as opposed to an orange... the sin was that having being created with knowledge of good they chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and to be like God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/12/2017 at 7:19 AM, Slartibartfast said: Atheists have just went, in the main, one god further than a theist. Theists believe what they do, in the main, because their mummy and daddy told them so. You know, the same mummy and daddy that told them that Santa and the tooth fairy were real. And how many people over the age of 8 or 9 still believe in Santa or the tooth fairy? There are plenty of theists who came to faith as adults (whatever their mummy and daddy believe) long after they stopped believing in Santa or the tooth fairy; eg the leading philosopher and former atheist Anthony Flew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/12/2017 at 0:43 PM, beyond our ken said: My point was, the concept of an afterlife was raised in the context that it existed "upstairs" and that this was of some comfort to the humanists in the congregation. The possibility that an afterlife can be experienced as, for example, some form of energy that exists around us can be accepted by Humanist (i think) but accepting that there is an afterlife above relies on the concept of some sort of deity in a heavenly kingdom. i just see it as bet-hedging. "Don't give me your Q'ran or your commandments, just give me a cosy wee everlasting existence". I don't mind people having that as their belief, it just interests me how closely so-called Humanists, who must be largely an Aetheist group, hold religious concepts to their hearts. And humanists say they don't have any dogmas and are only teaching what science has shown! I have also been at several humanist funerals, including one where at the committal a heavenly father was addressed in what seemed to be a prayer, but hey we don't want any of that religious nonsense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/12/2017 at 1:12 PM, oaksoft said: It is worse than that. It wasnt that long ago that even questioning religious doctrine got you burnt at the stake in this country and with Islam that happens right now across the world. This is a classic control technique which stops people questioning things. That leads to an environment for example where thousands of children can be systematically raped across decades by members of a religious cult, the catholic church in this case, whilst the cult itself covers up that series of crimes. It is essential that the general public can criticise a religion or we risk going back to those days. 20th century atheism has a fair few horror stories too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 7/12/2017 at 1:57 PM, oaksoft said: Not at all. I think the bible is full of great stories. As I said before, one of my absolute favourites is the one where Mary and Joseph managed to persuade a gullible public that she was pregnant as a result of god rather than the two of them engaging in sex behind a bush. If they had failed to persuade, then they would have been executed. Its a brilliant story and still relevant today where unmarried pregnancy is still a problem for religions. I think many people probably do hedge bets but that says more about the high levels of indoctrination when they were kids than anything else. It is not guilt by association at all. You are misunderstanding. Relgion is not about sharing. It is about control. It is about not questioning scripture. It is about decrying all other religions as less worthy. It is about saying that only your religion is the true faith and only followers of this specific religion can be saved. If you cannot recognise this as a control technique then I am not sure I can help here TBH. I am struggling to find any Bible passage where Mary & Joseph even attempted to persuade a gullible public... they left Nazareth and went to Bethlehem and left Bethlehem and went to Egypt... no mention is made anywhere of them trying to persuade anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 On 12/07/2017 at 8:15 AM, Drew said: Religion is predominantly based on symbolism. Any belief system that is based on symbolism yet commands significant influence in how societies operate warrants considerable scepticism. Unlike most branches of science, religious leaders and broader communities seldom welcome scepticism. That has to be a worry for the rest of us. Science does not welcome scepticism. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Like religion in times past, science is now state sponsored and as such uses funding to control the way people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Watched a program about using machine learning to create a top forty hit. If there was ever a programme that illustrated the limitations and pitfalls of science then this is. Recommended viewing for sceptics only. Dafties will lap it all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, insaintee said: Watched a program about using machine learning to create a top forty hit. If there was ever a programme that illustrated the limitations and pitfalls of science then this is. Recommended viewing for sceptics only. Dafties will lap it all up. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Just now, shull said: I love it. My work here is done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, insaintee said: Like religion in times past, science is now state sponsored and as such uses funding to control the way people think. Only if you're willing to accept everything at face value. As a scientist I've been trained at every level to question every theory or scientific study, by looking at all the available evidence and to make up my own mind whether I agree with it or not. That's what I encourage the kids that I teach to do also. When we teach evolution,I always tell pupils to go and look at the evidence for and against and for them to make up their own minds. I've had some excellent debates with pupils about this subject matter. Which was the opposite to what I experienced at school, where my teacher was bretheren and he told the whole class to score out a page on the evolution of the horse because it was untrue, then papped us off to another teacher because he didn't believe in evolution. It wasn't until second year in university, that I discovered that my teacher had been talking shite and I made an arse of myself (not for the first time), by claiming that the theory of evolution in horses had been disproved. Sadly,I don't ever remember going to Sunday school or church and being told that I could question any of the stories that I was told from the bible. Fortunately, I did have the presence of mind to break from the pack and think, "Wait a minute. There's no way on earth that's true". Anyway, a good example of religion moving with the times below. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40748125 Edited July 28, 2017 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Chritianity is basically the retelling of much older Sun-God tales , with the major event being December 25th because that was the day used by the previous Sun religions of yore . On the 3rd day after the 22nd December the Sun rises again higher in the sky - on the third day he rose again -even Easter is derived from an earlier Summerian festival . . So the story of the virgin birth and the rising from the dead all appeared in earlier pagan superstions http://www.worldbulletin.net/history/125609/christmas-before-christ-december-25-and-paganism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: You mean like Hitler:- 1. who proclaimed that he was, and always would be, a Roman Catholic? 2. who believed in the Ark of the Covenant? 3. who had his SS soldiers wear a belt with an inscription saying "god with us"? 4. who had these same soldiers take an oath that started "I swear by god this holy oath ..."? 5. who's first treaty was with the Vatican? Or like Stalin:- 1. who trained for the priesthood? 2. who basically tried to make the Party the "god" of Russia, from whom all things flowed and to whom all had to be obedient? 3. who allowed for tens of thousands of Russian Orthodox churches to reopen - admittedly after closing them all down before hand? 4. who adopted an official policy of tolerance toward Muslims? 5. who re-established the hierarchy of leadership in the Russian Orthodox Church - again, admittedly, after doing the opposite? 6. who, if rumours are true, "reconsidered" his own personal relationship to religion and took a “mysterious retreat” in 1941? Or like North Korea:- 1. who's leader "is a god"? 2. who's leader has to be worshipped? 3. ... etc, etc - which all basically means that it is a "heaven on earth" or, to rephrase, heaven is a celestial North Korea. Or Pol Pot? were those the examples he gave? i missed that. Heaven (sic) forfend that you are manipulating the writings of others in order to force home your point of view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: You mean like Hitler:- 1. who proclaimed that he was, and always would be, a Roman Catholic? 2. who believed in the Ark of the Covenant? 3. who had his SS soldiers wear a belt with an inscription saying "god with us"? 4. who had these same soldiers take an oath that started "I swear by god this holy oath ..."? 5. who's first treaty was with the Vatican? Or like Stalin:- 1. who trained for the priesthood? 2. who basically tried to make the Party the "god" of Russia, from whom all things flowed and to whom all had to be obedient? 3. who allowed for tens of thousands of Russian Orthodox churches to reopen - admittedly after closing them all down before hand? 4. who adopted an official policy of tolerance toward Muslims? 5. who re-established the hierarchy of leadership in the Russian Orthodox Church - again, admittedly, after doing the opposite? 6. who, if rumours are true, "reconsidered" his own personal relationship to religion and took a “mysterious retreat” in 1941? Or like North Korea:- 1. who's leader "is a god"? 2. who's leader has to be worshipped? 3. ... etc, etc - which all basically means that it is a "heaven on earth" or, to rephrase, heaven is a celestial North Korea. Or Pol Pot? Hitler, who after persecuting the Jews planned to move on to the Christian church next, had he stayed in power longer? Stalin had how many Christians persecuted and sent to camps in Siberia? Nebuchadnezzar, in Old Testament times, was a king who wanted to be treated as a god... that didn't make him religious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 And that is why most believe that humans are to blame for Climate Change. THE MASSES ARE INDEED ASSES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 1 hour ago, shull said: And that is why most believe that humans are to blame for Climate Change. THE MASSES ARE INDEED ASSES The coo's did it. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 I have said this before, but my belief is that unless I could actually snuff it, but come back and tell everyone about it, then I don't have a clue what may or may not be coming next after this time I am spending on earth. Call it 'heaven' if you will, call it nothing - like before you were born and millions of years of history happily rolled by without you in it - there might be something after this life, and if there is, I wouldn't want to face it as Jimmy Savile or Ian Brady. I therefore firmly believe that I should live my life by merely being a bit of a ginger whinger, but otherwise, be kind to people and animals. Don't be violent towards anyone, don't be cruel, play with a straight bat and try to be a decent human being. You never know. Maybe heaven is a golf course where I always shoot sub-par and in the bar afterwards, Kylie Minogue is waiting for me wearing her wee white Commonwealth Games dress and holding out an ice-cold lager.... Kylie. FFS! Where's the cheese and onion crisps!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: ... and yet homosexual couples who want to have children but don't want to have sex with the opposite gender can now have kids via IVF on the NHS and childless couples can have kids via IVF with people they have never met donating the sperm or eggs for their treatment. Am I saying Jesus was a test tube baby? Nope! But if God exists and is at least as intelligent as humans are we saying that humans can now do things that are impossible for God to do? "But if God exists....." That is your flaw right there. I cant answer your question because this makes no sense whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: 20th century atheism has a fair few horror stories too. Point me to any post where I have claimed otherwise. I said religion used control techniques. That was the central message of my post. If whataboutery helps you cope with how religion uses control and coercion to herd people then that is your problem. Edited July 28, 2017 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 12 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: I am struggling to find any Bible passage where Mary & Joseph even attempted to persuade a gullible public... they left Nazareth and went to Bethlehem and left Bethlehem and went to Egypt... no mention is made anywhere of them trying to persuade anyone. That is a particularly lame response. They persuaded enough people to have someone write about it in the bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 7 hours ago, insaintee said: Like religion in times past, science is now state sponsored and as such uses funding to control the way people think. Aye? Those of us who are ACTUAL scientists know that you cant get science to agree the colour of shite most of the time. Try getting an article published and come back and let us know how you get on. State sponsored..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 The nazis were happy to do deals with the Vatican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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