Buy The Buds

[Stuart Dickson]

I think it needs to be one step at a time, we all know (or think we know) the clubs failings, once the deal is done, then the meat can can be added to the bones re how things will interact etc.

Yeah I get that and I presume that's the issue. I had an e-mail exchange with Barry Mitchell just before the meeting and he said that Supporters Direct were looking at getting fan owned football clubs some sort of quasi charity status and that may be why things appear to be a bit frozen in time. It's just I think it's the hole in the presentation. If you want to inspire people to back a new board you really need to show them why the new board would be better than the old board and from listening to the meeting it sounded to me like the only response GLS and SMiSA would give was that they would run the club in the same way, but they'd hope that fresh eyes would be able to make some changes that would benefit the club.

Back when the 10000Hours bid was kicking off, I just happened to be in a place where representatives from the SFA were pushing our juvenile football club to look at becoming an SEN and the ways in which we could adapt out club to take advantage of the various different funding streams that were available. I went to a conference, where by the way many of the experts weren't convinced by the 10000Hours offering or structure, and saw some absolutely superb examples of what could be done. I'm no expert by any manner of means but I would happily point people in the direction of real experts who have grown their clubs and their SEN business - I'm sure REA would be even better placed to help. I just can't understand why that's not part of the presentation by the stage.

[FTOF]

I think it needs to be one step at a time, we all know (or think we know) the clubs failings, once the deal is done, then the meat can can be added to the bones re how things will interact etc.

Indeed.

No need to get ahead of ourselves.

Financing the deal is the priority.

The rest will come in time.

[foxbar_bud]

Yeah I get that and I presume that's the issue. I had an e-mail exchange with Barry Mitchell just before the meeting and he said that Supporters Direct were looking at getting fan owned football clubs some sort of quasi charity status and that may be why things appear to be a bit frozen in time. It's just I think it's the hole in the presentation. If you want to inspire people to back a new board you really need to show them why the new board would be better than the old board and from listening to the meeting it sounded to me like the only response GLS and SMiSA would give was that they would run the club in the same way, but they'd hope that fresh eyes would be able to make some changes that would benefit the club.

Back when the 10000Hours bid was kicking off, I just happened to be in a place where representatives from the SFA were pushing our juvenile football club to look at becoming an SEN and the ways in which we could adapt out club to take advantage of the various different funding streams that were available. I went to a conference, where by the way many of the experts weren't convinced by the 10000Hours offering or structure, and saw some absolutely superb examples of what could be done. I'm no expert by any manner of means but I would happily point people in the direction of real experts who have grown their clubs and their SEN business - I'm sure REA would be even better placed to help. I just can't understand why that's not part of the presentation by the stage.

Sorry Stuart,

SEN?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I am one of several St.Mirren fans who have not yet signed-up, but I truly hope GLS and SMISA make it. My question is

* Is their a consortium or an individual out their that is prepared immediately to purchase the club should SMISA fail to get enough St.Mirren fans to commit? Please no guesswork, and it is not necessary to give the name of the other party/parties that are a cert.

If I could go with just a wee bit of guesswork, it would be that any other interested buyer wouldn't show their hand until after the smisa bid failed. This way they get to offer a lot less.

[Stuart Dickson]

Sorry Stuart,

SEN?

Social Enterprise Network. There's a number of different forms that can be taken, the Community Interest Company (CIC) was one of those

[foxbar_bud]

Social Enterprise Network. There's a number of different forms that can be taken, the Community Interest Company (CIC) was one of those

Cheers,

[guinness]

Our local newsagent is handing out smisa leaflets in his shop and even putting them in with the papers they deliver. Every little helps

[Lord Pityme]

I've just listened to the meeting and if I'm honest had I not already committed I'm not sure I'd have been sold. There didn't seem to be any vision or any particular knowledge to suggest that there would be new ideas or initiatives.

I've raised my concern that no one appears to be talking about an SEN business model. It makes me concerned that no one has looked at that possiblity and yet it's exactly the kind of business model that fits football clubs like a glove.

Has Gordon Scott or anyone at SMiSA looked at The Atlantis model, the Homeless Football model or even at the models in place at Edinburgh Spartans? Has anyone considered the potential for lots of new small revenue streams coming into the club to reinvest in expansion? Has anyone been talking to local juvenile sports clubs or to community groups about how sharing resources could benefit all?

If it's just going to be more of the same then that's a terrible waste of yet another golden opportunity

The club has to be in new ownership before you can start making promises. Dont put the cart before the horse.

[Stuart Dickson]

The club has to be in new ownership before you can start making promises. Dont put the cart before the horse.

See now that comment would worry me.

I don't know how many successful business takeovers are conducted by people who just want ownership but haven't quite formulated a business plan as yet but I'd venture there won't be many. Apart from anything else usually anyone putting up finance would want to see the business plan. To claim that it's putting the cart before the horse to know how you would run a business before you buy it would seem very strange to me.

[Lord Pityme]

See now that comment would worry me.

I don't know how many successful business takeovers are conducted by people who just want ownership but haven't quite formulated a business plan as yet but I'd venture there won't be many. Apart from anything else usually anyone putting up finance would want to see the business plan. To claim that it's putting the cart before the horse to know how you would run a business before you buy it would seem very strange to me.

There is a sound business plan in place which takes account as was discussed at last week's meeting the need to re-invigorate the club's standing, involvement and responsibilities in the community.

SEN's excite you, we get that! But it isnt necessarily the same for everyone, the first priority most people who have, and will sign up, is to see the club in new hands of those who care and will take it forward again. So to start pitching a whole load of 'promises' now that are not tied down would only confuse the message to the first 1000 sign ups.

Smisa know their target audience for this bid, they are not looking for pop-up SEN's, they want to see safe hands on the wheel, and a revitalised club looking at improving its income stream, to enable the playing staff to put a better product on the park.

That said George Adam has already had prelimanary discussions, and an assessment of where the club stands Re: community involvement. The skinny on that is SMFC has dropped behind a lot of other clubs who have basically copied what we did, but moved it up a notch or two. So work to do, but more importantly... That work must take account of the wishes, and involve the 1000 odd new members of Smisa, as well as the local community.

The horse will be sourced as a priority, then the right model of cart will be attached to fit.

[shull]

Going forward, could those promoting the Bid,please speak in plain English.

FFS

[Lord Pityme]

Shine a light guv'nor!

Would you Adam & Eve it? There's a geezer finks we don't talk praw-per 'nuff for this forum!

Is he 'Kin taking the piss, or giving it away?

Ah well time to head up the apples & pears and across the Rory O Moore and get daaan to business.

[shull]

No even humorous.

[Lord Pityme]

Pardon?

[shull]

God help St Mirren, Smisa and Gordon.

[Stuart Dickson]

There is a sound business plan in place which takes account as was discussed at last week's meeting the need to re-invigorate the club's standing, involvement and responsibilities in the community.

SEN's excite you, we get that! But it isnt necessarily the same for everyone, the first priority most people who have, and will sign up, is to see the club in new hands of those who care and will take it forward again. So to start pitching a whole load of 'promises' now that are not tied down would only confuse the message to the first 1000 sign ups.

Smisa know their target audience for this bid, they are not looking for pop-up SEN's, they want to see safe hands on the wheel, and a revitalised club looking at improving its income stream, to enable the playing staff to put a better product on the park.

That said George Adam has already had prelimanary discussions, and an assessment of where the club stands Re: community involvement. The skinny on that is SMFC has dropped behind a lot of other clubs who have basically copied what we did, but moved it up a notch or two. So work to do, but more importantly... That work must take account of the wishes, and involve the 1000 odd new members of Smisa, as well as the local community.

The horse will be sourced as a priority, then the right model of cart will be attached to fit.

Are you posting in an official capacity LP? Is that really what is going on behind the scenes? Is George Adam, a local MSP of some experience really phoning Andy Gilchrist to ask where St Mirren are in a league table of community effort? Is there really a belief amongst the SMiSA team that St Mirren were just overtaken by some copy cats despite the clubs large grant from the Scottish Football Partnership to fund the dome? Are those at SMiSA really not able to see the state of the club for themselves without having to call for independent advice?

Putting aside business plans for a moment the picture you paint of Gordon Scott and the SMiSA leadership is one of a bunch of buffoons who know that a football is round but haven't advanced their knowledge much beyond that. I sincerely hope they've got more of a clue than the picture you paint. If they haven't figured out yet that St Mirren NEED the local community to support the club and to feel a real affinity to the club that goes way beyond ticking SFA boxes for the next tranche of funding for yet another 10 week programme that will be consigned to the bin in week 11 then I really do despair for the club.

Hopefully your next post will be to tell me they actually have got a clue....

[Lord Pityme]

Are you posting in an official capacity LP? Is that really what is going on behind the scenes? Is George Adam, a local MSP of some experience really phoning Andy Gilchrist to ask where St Mirren are in a league table of community effort? Is there really a belief amongst the SMiSA team that St Mirren were just overtaken by some copy cats despite the clubs large grant from the Scottish Football Partnership to fund the dome? Are those at SMiSA really not able to see the state of the club for themselves without having to call for independent advice?

Putting aside business plans for a moment the picture you paint of Gordon Scott and the SMiSA leadership is one of a bunch of buffoons who know that a football is round but haven't advanced their knowledge much beyond that. I sincerely hope they've got more of a clue than the picture you paint. If they haven't figured out yet that St Mirren NEED the local community to support the club and to feel a real affinity to the club that goes way beyond ticking SFA boxes for the next tranche of funding for yet another 10 week programme that will be consigned to the bin in week 11 then I really do despair for the club.

Hopefully your next post will be to tell me they actually have got a clue....

Stuart everyone knows you are a roaster, that's a given.

This subject however is far too important to become hijacked by whomever, for whatever agenda.

I am posting as a member of Smisa, George spoke at last week's meeting regarding where the club sits in comparison to others in its community work and involvement.

You call on Smisa and the club to become more community orientated, but when one of them starts to research, fact find, ask questions, seek benchmarks etc you ridicule the very subject you claim to be all for?

There will be approx 1000 members of the local community backing this bid, as well as the other 2500 who regularly attend games at the Paisley 2021 Stadium, and a whole lot of good will throughout the burgh and the county to see it succeed.

If you believe you have the ideas, drive, connections and are willing to devote you're personal time, like the Smisa guys to make our club a leader in community involvement then get in touch with the bid team and offer your services!

Its not as easy as coming on here and slating the bid, but i wager it would be a lot more rewarding..!

[Stuart Dickson]

Stuart everyone knows you are a roaster, that's a given.

This subject however is far too important to become hijacked by whomever, for whatever agenda.

I am posting as a member of Smisa, George spoke at last week's meeting regarding where the club sits in comparison to others in its community work and involvement.

You call on Smisa and the club to become more community orientated, but when one of them starts to research, fact find, ask questions, seek benchmarks etc you ridicule the very subject you claim to be all for?

There will be approx 1000 members of the local community backing this bid, as well as the other 2500 who regularly attend games at the Paisley 2021 Stadium, and a whole lot of good will throughout the burgh and the county to see it succeed.

If you believe you have the ideas, drive, connections and are willing to devote you're personal time, like the Smisa guys to make our club a leader in community involvement then get in touch with the bid team and offer your services!

Its not as easy as coming on here and slating the bid, but i wager it would be a lot more rewarding..!

I think we may have equal roaster status on here in the eyes of others LP. I think over the past few years I've been far more tolerant of your views than many others on here, despite being frustrated by your oft used tactics of making a statement and then getting all defensive about it.

Since watching the video on Facebook of the meeting I came on here to comment on what looks to me like the lack of a clear business plan. There is nothing there at all to suggest that anything will be done any differently to how the club has been run for the last 17 - 18 years. That doesn't really inspire me to want to part with £12 per month, or £25 as I'm currently signed up to pay. I came here seeking assurance, and with some advice. What I've had from you is a post suggesting that it is putting the cart before the horse to have a business plan before bidding to buy the club, and then to follow up on that you've made a further statement that George Adam, an experienced local MSP, has had to go and seek independence advice on whether St Mirren's community activities are seen as being as good as other clubs. Those responses have me sitting with my head in my hands as you can well imagine.

I've sat with friends who are against fan ownership and I've listened to them tell me that in general fans are f**king idiots who shouldn't be anywhere near financial and business decisions being made in the boardroom of a company with a £multi million turnover. I've told them they were wrong. I've cited examples at other clubs where its worked and where the running of the club has improved massively - particularly around the way those clubs work in their local communities. Yet here I think you are proving me wrong.

I am a SMiSA member too. The committee of SMiSA have my full contact details. As has always been the case - even with the current board - if someone wants to talk to me about any area they think I may have knowledge or skills in then they know where to get me. As I've said I don't see myself as an expert on SEN's but I would recommend that SMiSA and Gordon Scott get familiar with the many examples out there - particularly Atlantis in Oban. And I would recommend that if they haven't got a good grasp of what benefits the local community can give to a club like St Mirren that they get out there are do some proper research by talking to the guys who run local juvenile football clubs and youth groups. There are many resources that could be shared that would offer huge financial benefits to both parties - it just requires a bit of common sense.

[Gruffalo]

Stuart everyone knows you are a roaster, that's a given.

This subject however is far too important to become hijacked by whomever, for whatever agenda.

I am posting as a member of Smisa, George spoke at last week's meeting regarding where the club sits in comparison to others in its community work and involvement.

You call on Smisa and the club to become more community orientated, but when one of them starts to research, fact find, ask questions, seek benchmarks etc you ridicule the very subject you claim to be all for?

There will be approx 1000 members of the local community backing this bid, as well as the other 2500 who regularly attend games at the Paisley 2021 Stadium, and a whole lot of good will throughout the burgh and the county to see it succeed.

If you believe you have the ideas, drive, connections and are willing to devote you're personal time, like the Smisa guys to make our club a leader in community involvement then get in touch with the bid team and offer your services!

Its not as easy as coming on here and slating the bid, but i wager it would be a lot more rewarding..!

You post on here giving the persona that you are some kind of unofficial SMISA spokesperson. Yet when someone who claims to have signed up for a £25/month contribution asks in my opinion a viable question, you shout them down as a “roaster”.

SD has come up with a viable comment/query on the proposal. The current board has been rightly criticised over the period for under selling the club and not running it like a business. This lack of business acumen has resulted in them failing to sell their wares for 7 years and have also resulted in them having to sell it at half the original asking price.

SMISA had a meeting last week and had a meeting to sell their glorious plan to the public and they didn't. What they advised us and the media was that you have a chance to be part owner of a club FULL STOP. No business plan, no sound bites, no promises, no aspiration, no anything other than fan ownership there was no excitement that would make people take a chance and sign up and be part of something special other than the fans running the club. The meeting was in my opinion a lost opportunity to sell the opportunity to be involved in something special by advising what they were going to do to generate income for the club, open new renew streams, involve the community, make the club more in touch with the fans old and new. Your response to this is sign up and wait and see. They don’t want to promise things they can’t deliver (that’s how the current board run the club)

Your history of character assignation on here and the unofficial SMISA town crier role on here is putting me off being part of the process.

So a question to an official SMISA representative is “What is the business plan and what are you going to do different to the current board in running the club that will sell the club to a wider customer and what ideas do you have to involve the community and the town”

If i want to be involved in a fans ownership i want to know that my money is not going to a board that is the same as we already have.

[notabuddie]

I said before I thought the meeting last week was a miss opportunity for the reasons stated by the previous poster above in the fact there was no clear business plan. Speaking to other supporters I think the issue might be with SMISA themselves.

From the beginning the message from SMISA has been buy the shares, get fans on the board. This is the same message that was presented there has nothing been put forward to say this bid works we have a plan to get a minimum X% into the club by year 3 or what ever.

In saying that the emotional attachment to the club maybe enough to get the bid across the line as that is what they are aiming at.

[Lord Pityme]

I think we may have equal roaster status on here in the eyes of others LP. I think over the past few years I've been far more tolerant of your views than many others on here, despite being frustrated by your oft used tactics of making a statement and then getting all defensive about it.

Since watching the video on Facebook of the meeting I came on here to comment on what looks to me like the lack of a clear business plan. There is nothing there at all to suggest that anything will be done any differently to how the club has been run for the last 17 - 18 years. That doesn't really inspire me to want to part with £12 per month, or £25 as I'm currently signed up to pay. I came here seeking assurance, and with some advice. What I've had from you is a post suggesting that it is putting the cart before the horse to have a business plan before bidding to buy the club, and then to follow up on that you've made a further statement that George Adam, an experienced local MSP, has had to go and seek independence advice on whether St Mirren's community activities are seen as being as good as other clubs. Those responses have me sitting with my head in my hands as you can well imagine.

I've sat with friends who are against fan ownership and I've listened to them tell me that in general fans are f**king idiots who shouldn't be anywhere near financial and business decisions being made in the boardroom of a company with a £multi million turnover. I've told them they were wrong. I've cited examples at other clubs where its worked and where the running of the club has improved massively - particularly around the way those clubs work in their local communities. Yet here I think you are proving me wrong.

I am a SMiSA member too. The committee of SMiSA have my full contact details. As has always been the case - even with the current board - if someone wants to talk to me about any area they think I may have knowledge or skills in then they know where to get me. As I've said I don't see myself as an expert on SEN's but I would recommend that SMiSA and Gordon Scott get familiar with the many examples out there - particularly Atlantis in Oban. And I would recommend that if they haven't got a good grasp of what benefits the local community can give to a club like St Mirren that they get out there are do some proper research by talking to the guys who run local juvenile football clubs and youth groups. There are many resources that could be shared that would offer huge financial benefits to both parties - it just requires a bit of common sense.

Why dont you just ask Smisa directly?

And if you believe in the importance of what you say, why not get involved? George Adam made a point of referencing people from the third sector who were in the audience last week at the meeting when talking about who could be Smisa's rep, or rep's on the board.

There is a whole lot of work that will need to be done, but more importantly it needs to be done by people with the appropriate skill set.

[Stuart Dickson]

Why dont you just ask Smisa directly?

And if you believe in the importance of what you say, why not get involved? George Adam made a point of referencing people from the third sector who were in the audience last week at the meeting when talking about who could be Smisa's rep, or rep's on the board.

There is a whole lot of work that will need to be done, but more importantly it needs to be done by people with the appropriate skill set.

I'm confused. I thought this thread was about buying the club. I thought people from SMiSA were posting direct responses to people on this thread. I even thought, based on your responses, that I was being addressed by the groups official spokesperson. Now you want me to copy and paste my post and to e-mail it - I suppose to Barry Mitchell - who has already informed me by e-mail that it might be 10 years before SMiSA can implement it's own business plan and that the hope would be that by than Andrew Jenkins at Supporters Direct may have successfully lobbied parliament to get Independent Supporter Associations some sort of quasi charity status with tax breaks.

As for me "getting involved" - lets look at that for a moment. Already a number of people on this forum has indicated that they have reservations about joining because of their concerns about some of the people who appear to be pushing themselves forward in backing this bid. I don't think it was ever directly stated who they were concerned about but I assumed from the posts I read that their concerns were in direct reference to you. I haven't pushed myself forward, despite being a big supporter of community ownership of football clubs. Why? Well first of all I don't really have the time or the energy to commit for a number of reasons and secondly I am at least self aware enough to know that over the last 17 years I have had heated and passionate arguments with just about every online St Mirren supporter - including I think every single member of the current SMiSA committee - and that my stance against the current board has alienated me amongst many of the support to the extent that if I was seen to be "involved" it would probably repel many St Mirren fans from membership and the bid process altogether. Indeed you yourself said that many on here believe me to be a "roaster".

I have also repeatedly stated that I am not an expert on SEN's. One day at a conference listening to inspiring people doesn't mean I know it all but what little I do know means that I can heartily recommend that SMiSA look very closely at a number of examples - like Atlantis in Oban - and that they consider how that model would increase revenue streams, fund growth, and inspire and motivate a support. As I've said SMiSA have all my contact details. They have my home address, my mobile phone number, my e-mail address, and they can contact me through this website. I'm actually very approachable. I even spent time meeting some of the current board members and the commercial manager despite my views. I'm not sure how much more advice I can offer than to tell them to please look closely at those examples - but if they want to hear it from me directly they are more than welcome to call.

[Lord Pityme]

I'm confused. I thought this thread was about buying the club. I thought people from SMiSA were posting direct responses to people on this thread. I even thought, based on your responses, that I was being addressed by the groups official spokesperson. Now you want me to copy and paste my post and to e-mail it - I suppose to Barry Mitchell - who has already informed me by e-mail that it might be 10 years before SMiSA can implement it's own business plan and that the hope would be that by than Andrew Jenkins at Supporters Direct may have successfully lobbied parliament to get Independent Supporter Associations some sort of quasi charity status with tax breaks.

As for me "getting involved" - lets look at that for a moment. Already a number of people on this forum has indicated that they have reservations about joining because of their concerns about some of the people who appear to be pushing themselves forward in backing this bid. I don't think it was ever directly stated who they were concerned about but I assumed from the posts I read that their concerns were in direct reference to you. I haven't pushed myself forward, despite being a big supporter of community ownership of football clubs. Why? Well first of all I don't really have the time or the energy to commit for a number of reasons and secondly I am at least self aware enough to know that over the last 17 years I have had heated and passionate arguments with just about every online St Mirren supporter - including I think every single member of the current SMiSA committee - and that my stance against the current board has alienated me amongst many of the support to the extent that if I was seen to be "involved" it would probably repel many St Mirren fans from membership and the bid process altogether. Indeed you yourself said that many on here believe me to be a "roaster".

I have also repeatedly stated that I am not an expert on SEN's. One day at a conference listening to inspiring people doesn't mean I know it all but what little I do know means that I can heartily recommend that SMiSA look very closely at a number of examples - like Atlantis in Oban - and that they consider how that model would increase revenue streams, fund growth, and inspire and motivate a support. As I've said SMiSA have all my contact details. They have my home address, my mobile phone number, my e-mail address, and they can contact me through this website. I'm actually very approachable. I even spent time meeting some of the current board members and the commercial manager despite my views. I'm not sure how much more advice I can offer than to tell them to please look closely at those examples - but if they want to hear it from me directly they are more than welcome to call.

Aye its always easier to sit on yir arse and pontificate... Night night.

[Callum Gilhooley]

I'm confused. I thought this thread was about buying the club. I thought people from SMiSA were posting direct responses to people on this thread. I even thought, based on your responses, that I was being addressed by the groups official spokesperson. Now you want me to copy and paste my post and to e-mail it - I suppose to Barry Mitchell - who has already informed me by e-mail that it might be 10 years before SMiSA can implement it's own business plan and that the hope would be that by than Andrew Jenkins at Supporters Direct may have successfully lobbied parliament to get Independent Supporter Associations some sort of quasi charity status with tax breaks.

As for me "getting involved" - lets look at that for a moment. Already a number of people on this forum has indicated that they have reservations about joining because of their concerns about some of the people who appear to be pushing themselves forward in backing this bid. I don't think it was ever directly stated who they were concerned about but I assumed from the posts I read that their concerns were in direct reference to you. I haven't pushed myself forward, despite being a big supporter of community ownership of football clubs. Why? Well first of all I don't really have the time or the energy to commit for a number of reasons and secondly I am at least self aware enough to know that over the last 17 years I have had heated and passionate arguments with just about every online St Mirren supporter - including I think every single member of the current SMiSA committee - and that my stance against the current board has alienated me amongst many of the support to the extent that if I was seen to be "involved" it would probably repel many St Mirren fans from membership and the bid process altogether. Indeed you yourself said that many on here believe me to be a "roaster".

I have also repeatedly stated that I am not an expert on SEN's. One day at a conference listening to inspiring people doesn't mean I know it all but what little I do know means that I can heartily recommend that SMiSA look very closely at a number of examples - like Atlantis in Oban - and that they consider how that model would increase revenue streams, fund growth, and inspire and motivate a support. As I've said SMiSA have all my contact details. They have my home address, my mobile phone number, my e-mail address, and they can contact me through this website. I'm actually very approachable. I even spent time meeting some of the current board members and the commercial manager despite my views. I'm not sure how much more advice I can offer than to tell them to please look closely at those examples - but if they want to hear it from me directly they are more than welcome to call.

Please take a moment to go back to the very first post by Buddiecat where he states the aims of this thread are to discuss the possible buyout but CLEARLY posts a link to the SMISA website where questions can be asked & responded to by the appropriate SMISA personnel.

This thread is nothing more than a vehicle for discussion, I would suggest any opinions expressed on here are just that , Opinions.

I have always thought the best way to get answers to direct questions is to ask them clearly & concisely through the appropriate channels. I think if you direct your concerns/questions/enquiries to www.smisa.net , you will get clear & concise answers in return.

[Stuart Dickson]

Please take a moment to go back to the very first post by Buddiecat where he states the aims of this thread are to discuss the possible buyout but CLEARLY posts a link to the SMISA website where questions can be asked & responded to by the appropriate SMISA personnel.

This thread is nothing more than a vehicle for discussion, I would suggest any opinions expressed on here are just that , Opinions.

I have always thought the best way to get answers to direct questions is to ask them clearly & concisely through the appropriate channels. I think if you direct your concerns/questions/enquiries to www.smisa.net , you will get clear & concise answers in return.

Is the apparent lack of a business plan not worthy of discussion?