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buddiecat

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1 hour ago, rabuddies said:

True. But that was then and this is now. Of the last six clubs to be promoted to the top league, five had major investors and the other had a major cash injection to put their playing budgets beyond anything a fan owned club could aspire to unless they go down the route the Pars fans appear to be taking by supplementing it with monthly subs.  I would love it if we could beat the odds and put a team on the park that would be competitive, even at the current level, but sadly I can't see it happening any time soon.

Huh?

Unless I'm missing something the last six clubs to be promoted are "Rangers", Hearts, Dundee, Hamilton Accies, Partick Thistle, and Ross County. Hearts are a fan owned club. "Rangers" have wracked up a pile of debt when they didn't need to given their support numbers around 40,000 most weeks and I've no idea who you think was piling cash into Partick Thistle, Dundee or Hamilton. 

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1 hour ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Huh?

Unless I'm missing something the last six clubs to be promoted are "Rangers", Hearts, Dundee, Hamilton Accies, Partick Thistle, and Ross County. Hearts are a fan owned club. "Rangers" have wracked up a pile of debt when they didn't need to given their support numbers around 40,000 most weeks and I've no idea who you think was piling cash into Partick Thistle, Dundee or Hamilton. 

In Dundee's winning season they received an injection of about £350K from "a group of shareholders" and also posted losses of just under £1M for the season. I wonder who underwrote that? The now have investment from an American source.

Thistle received around £1m from 2 directors and 2 wealthy supporters although I believe they had to give up control of land and property.  Since the the Weir's of lottery fame have donated £1.25M.

Accies receive cash from the company that owns 95% of the club. This club is owned by the Chairman, a Director (formerly BNP organiser for Glasgow and property developer) and the two children of the former owner.  This company also has the majority stake in the company that owns the stadium and only charges Accies £60K rent per annum.

Need I go on - these clubs didn't do it on the people paying their money on a Saturday.

 

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4 hours ago, rabuddies said:

In Dundee's winning season they received an injection of about £350K from "a group of shareholders" and also posted losses of just under £1M for the season. I wonder who underwrote that? The now have investment from an American source.

Thistle received around £1m from 2 directors and 2 wealthy supporters although I believe they had to give up control of land and property.  Since the the Weir's of lottery fame have donated £1.25M.

Accies receive cash from the company that owns 95% of the club. This club is owned by the Chairman, a Director (formerly BNP organiser for Glasgow and property developer) and the two children of the former owner.  This company also has the majority stake in the company that owns the stadium and only charges Accies £60K rent per annum.

Need I go on - these clubs didn't do it on the people paying their money on a Saturday.

 

I'll give you Partick Thistle even though it didn't take much searching on the internet to reveal that the Weirs £1.25m was donated to the Partick Youth Academy and not to the club itself. The other two though look like you've perhaps got a bit mixed up. 

First off Walter Hamilton, the guy who you refer to as the BNP guy, isn't a director of Hamilton Accies - he's just the stadium manager. He was a director of the club up till 2004. A check on the companies record shows that there are just 4 directors at Hamilton. Les Gray, Colin McGowan, Ronald McDonald and Allan Maitland. The story regarding Walter Hamilton that was published in the Herald claimed that Hamilton owned a 25% shareholding in a company that owned Hamilton Accies Stadium. I'm not sure where you get the information that money is being pumped into the club - it looks to me like Hamilton Accies are run pretty frugally and it's income from player sales and the compensation received for their manager that has boosted their income in recent years. If Accies are paying rent on their stadium surely that puts them at a disadvantage to a club like St Mirren who own their stadium and who don't pay rent to anyone? 

And at Dundee, are you sure this cash injection you talk about wasn't the money paid in by John Bennett which allowed the club to enter into a CVA so they could continue to trade after being in administration? And the £1m losses don't relate to the £1.2m that was spent by the club buying a plot of land on the Kingsway where the clubs Chairman and Managing Director are planning to build the club a new stadium? It's hard to imagine looking at any of their squads in recent years, that they was any cash being injected into the playing side of the club at all. 

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19 hours ago, Kendo said:

Just heard our good old pal Chick on the radio basically blaming the board and the fans buy out for our current predicament.

He says that a fans buy out prevents a sugar daddy coming in and bailing the club out?

This is correct , and GLS will know it as well. This is the reason he came out publicly recently and said the club need a far higher financial turnover to be successful. That higher turnover will only be secured if the product on the park is bringing people to the games , success on the park and increased sponsorship etc  go hand in hand. I'm pretty sure all the people currently at the club who are responsible for the playing side will be looking over their shoulder already ! It's only a matter of time !

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19 hours ago, Kendo said:

Just heard our good old pal Chick on the radio basically blaming the board and the fans buy out for our current predicament.

He says that a fans buy out prevents a sugar daddy coming in and bailing the club out? WTF was Stewart Gilmour a sugar daddy?

Doesn't the daft Cnut realise that we were in this mess prior to the take over and the current manager was appointed by the previous regime? 

He's not right in the head Kendo, and he's still miffed about his failure where he said he was part of a rival bid, which never even made it to the table - bitter wee man and now writing a column in the PDE because he has been found out elsewhere. He is also only trying to get publicity through being controversial, a self serving moron.

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15 hours ago, rabuddies said:

But he has a valid point in that without a major investor it will be very difficult to get the club much above mid-table. Sadly, our playing budget will be constrained by the other demands on the overall budget that others in the division don't have to bother about.

Nobody else in our league has to bother about demands on their budget and they all have major investors ? seriously ?

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13 hours ago, rabuddies said:

True. But that was then and this is now. Of the last six clubs to be promoted to the top league, five had major investors and the other had a major cash injection to put their playing budgets beyond anything a fan owned club could aspire to unless they go down the route the Pars fans appear to be taking by supplementing it with monthly subs.  I would love it if we could beat the odds and put a team on the park that would be competitive, even at the current level, but sadly I can't see it happening any time soon.

Do you not know that the club was up for sale for years without any sugar daddies coming in at any time, Young is an idiot who is majorly miffed that he didn't get any attention for his rival bid (if there actually was a bid he was involved in) what is the point in moaning about not having major investors when any such people had every opportunity to put in a bid and still could put their money in if they wish. I very much doubt that anyone wanting to give us any amount of money would be turned away, there simply isn't anyone wanting to throw money at us, Gordon Scott has spent over £600k of his money to try and make a difference and he needs to be given time to turn us around after we had been left to rot by the previous regime.

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Nobody else in our league has to bother about demands on their budget and they all have major investors ? seriously ?


No, but 5 have bigger player budgets than us (not total budget). With our new ownership model we have no method of cash injection if needed to boost the squad. It's going to be very difficult that's all I'm getting at.

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Just now, rabuddies said:


No, but 5 have bigger player budgets than us (not total budget). With our new ownership model we have no method of cash injection if needed to boost the squad. It's going to be very difficult that's all I'm getting at.

What i'm getting at is that nobody who wants to give us money will be turned away. The new board and investment by supporters cannot be blamed for the fact that nobody wants to throw money at us.

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I never backed the Buy out but agree change had to be made ,the old guard had had enough and wanted out , but if we are still in this position come January I worry we will struggle to bring in the players we will need to try and get us out of it. Relegation to the third tier would be disastrous and I think it would be a job to keep all the SIMSA members paying the DD's ,This could well be this new BODs first big test with regards to AR (whom I have backed ,but now i'm starting to doubt) , do they stick with it or change it?

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am currently paying direct debit,but certainly not doing it for a 3rd division team,why should a,Gordon Scott is getting every penny back,am not,still get season book,but even that under scrutiny,been going to games for 36 years,and now am seriously considering chucking it,cant watch this shit no more,all the boys that all went together don't go now either,very sad state our club in,as Gilmour said,ARMAGEDDON could become possible,Airdrie n pars ended up out in the wilderness and we might be next,our club been dragging heels and cloth cutting for years and now finally catching up,and old boards disaster of manager recruitment biting into our funds has crippled us,but Gilmour always looked for cheap option,Craig teale Murray Rae,every one as bad as one another,so basically this should have happened years ago,hurts me to say it,we deserve it

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22 minutes ago, paul torfason said:

am currently paying direct debit,but certainly not doing it for a 3rd division team,why should a,Gordon Scott is getting every penny back,am not,still get season book,but even that under scrutiny,been going to games for 36 years,and now am seriously considering chucking it,cant watch this shit no more,all the boys that all went together don't go now either,very sad state our club in,as Gilmour said,ARMAGEDDON could become possible,Airdrie n pars ended up out in the wilderness and we might be next,our club been dragging heels and cloth cutting for years and now finally catching up,and old boards disaster of manager recruitment biting into our funds has crippled us,but Gilmour always looked for cheap option,Craig teale Murray Rae,every one as bad as one another,so basically this should have happened years ago,hurts me to say it,we deserve it

Gordon gets his money back in 10 years, or less, we the fans then get the club, which we could also sell and get our money back.

and of course we will be Gordon, or Gilmour then, so who do we howl at?

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3 hours ago, sunlounger said:

It'll be a real test for fan ownership in regards to paying off and acquiring a new management team, who fits the bill and how that will fit in with the debt being payed back by simsa members.

Worrying times ahead.

SMiSA are not paying for the manager and will not be paying for a replacement if and when that happens, the money paid into SMiSA is presently to be used to pay for the shares bought and in the future to buy the majority share, there will not be enough spare cash to fund changes of manager, it's the club who pay or sack the manager and pay for a replacement.

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10 hours ago, billyg said:

This is correct , and GLS will know it as well. This is the reason he came out publicly recently and said the club need a far higher financial turnover to be successful. That higher turnover will only be secured if the product on the park is bringing people to the games , success on the park and increased sponsorship etc  go hand in hand. I'm pretty sure all the people currently at the club who are responsible for the playing side will be looking over their shoulder already ! It's only a matter of time !

..................... as I was saying ! :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Toots said:

I wonder how many monthly direct debits have taken a hit during this bad run , i know of four people who have cancelled already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now is the time for more to join up, cancelling will only make things much worse.

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2 hours ago, Kendo said:

Now is the time for more to join up, cancelling will only make things much worse.

The money raised is not going into the Club currently, vast majority is going to pay a debt to the previous shareholders and a small amount for projects that i dont think have been defined, so right now if probably makes little difference either way....but momentum does matter, and a momentum of cancellations will be tricky to reverse, without a reversal in Club fortune

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2 hours ago, Kendo said:

Now is the time for more to join up, cancelling will only make things much worse.

Really?

 

It is becoming increasingly difficult to remain motivated as a supporter of this failing club. 

It is entirely reasonable that as people become more and more disillusioned with this ongoing exercise in failure then the Smisa membership will take a hit.  Not only amongst the less appreciated peasant ranks but also amongst the all important premier members.  This team are failing everyone, themselves, the support and Smisa's hopes to rule the club.

 

One cannot criticise Smisa members for cancelling (although some wealthy premiers may).

Indeed Smisa members have to ask themselves "should I be doing something else with my money?"  Paying up to £24 a month for the average peasant is money than can be spent on food, housekeeping or even saved.  These poor second class Smisa members cannot be criticised for using much needed funds for more important ventures.

 

If Gordon Scott is counting on the Smisa money coming to fruition then he better make sure he can deliver a team to keep the fans interested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kendo said:

Now is the time for more to join up, cancelling will only make things much worse.

Worse- You mean we could have 3 points.

We are customers as well as supporters.

If its obvious the players are just taking a wage and not giving a phuck then I don't blame the punters

 

Plus where is the Chairman in this crisis?

 

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4 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Worse- You mean we could have 3 points.

We are customers as well as supporters.

If its obvious the players are just taking a wage and not giving a phuck then I don't blame the punters

 

Plus where is the Chairman in this crisis?

 

Where should he be and what, exactly, do you want from him?

FFS. 

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Where should he be and what, exactly, do you want from him?

FFS. 

I am not sure how it works in your country.... but here the owner leads.

He sees what we see, and when things are down communication is key.

even if its just a "we are on it"

FFS

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6 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

I am not sure how it works in your country.... but here the owner leads.

He sees what we see, and when things are down communication is key.

even if its just a "we are on it"

FFS

Away and get a grip. You are so childish you want the chairman to comment on what? Not sure how it works in Ga Ga land, absolute nutter. :hammer

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57 minutes ago, rea said:

The money raised is not going into the Club currently, vast majority is going to pay a debt to the previous shareholders and a small amount for projects that i dont think have been defined, so right now if probably makes little difference either way....but momentum does matter, and a momentum of cancellations will be tricky to reverse, without a reversal in Club fortune

You gotta larf...eh?

did you lift this from your ill-fated prospectus to buy the club? It is good though you kerp reminding saints fans what your M.O. Is

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