Jump to content

Hillsborough Disaster Verdict


shull

Recommended Posts

post-24-0-48047100-1461707877_thumb.jpg

Right Dicko,here's a picture of the tunnel.There is one way in and one way out.Once the police opened the gates it would be impossible for the Fans to "back up" as you so quaintly put it.The police directed the Fans to their deaths,there is absolutely no arguement otherwise.

I understand you are an attention seeker,maybe bordering on autistic,but for once can this not be about you.Can you not find it within yourself to admit you are wrong and let the 96 rest in peace?

Who do you blame the Bradford Fire on?

SICKO DICKO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Stuart,

You blamed St. Mirren for not cancelling a game due to snow and making your sons travel via car to Paisley in the snow, saying some pish about St Mirren encouraging people to travel in unsafe conditions, putting their lives at risk, to get to a game.

Yet in this case, you are trying to put as much blame on the individual as possible despite all the evidence showing the mistakes that the police made.

Stop being an attention seeker

Edited by foxbar_bud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just think it's shameful that establishment closes ranks , lied and tried to manipulate the public opinion against a section of society considered somehow less worthy of care, compassion and a form of justice.

I just think it's a shame that Thatcher for example is not available now to be put on oath and directly challenged on allegations that she bullied ministers, police high ranking officers and policy, to cobble a cruel and spiteful end.

This is a tragedy and is an example now in a lot of our lifetimes of how history does show that no cnunt is to be trusted , especially the higher up the career ladder or the further along the governmental gravy train you crawl.

The governing establishment should be held in contempt for this, as well as its complicit press.

That is all, except of course, respect and commiserations to the families of the lost

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are people who think that Stuart adds to the forum, as he generates a "following" who take great delight in pouncing on his every word.

Does he believe the stuff he posts?

I happen to believe it's a mixture of belief and a serious effort to annoy/wind up.

Whatever it might be he makes a serious effort to cause disruption, slightly counterbalanced by the odd "like me" post.

The issue is that people regularly jump into his world, which makes it easier for him to continually feed the desire to have a go at him.

An attention seeker, most definitely, and damn good at it, but the real issue is the continual responses he gets to feed this desire.

No point in getting all "angry" at him, either let it go or ignore him, although there is an equal need to respond from many.

He provides a service, and a important outlet for many, weird, eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are people who think that Stuart adds to the forum, as he generates a "following" who take great delight in pouncing on his every word.

Does he believe the stuff he posts?

I happen to believe it's a mixture of belief and a serious effort to annoy/wind up.

Whatever it might be he makes a serious effort to cause disruption, slightly counterbalanced by the odd "like me" post.

The issue is that people regularly jump into his world, which makes it easier for him to continually feed the desire to have a go at him.

An attention seeker, most definitely, and damn good at it, but the real issue is the continual responses he gets to feed this desire.

No point in getting all "angry" at him, either let it go or ignore him, although there is an equal need to respond from many.

He provides a service, and a important outlet for many, weird, eh?

Beautiful... "Let it go or ignore"... Says my number one follower who waits to jump on my every post!

I shall add hypocrisy to your list of talents!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beautiful... "Let it go or ignore"... Says my number one follower who waits to jump on my every post!

I shall add hypocrisy to your list of talents!

Yep... I alerted you to the irony and hypocrisy. Thank me later.

Oh dear, I think your upbringing is letting you down, maybe too much time over the priests knees? whistling.gif

Been told you were a very happy boy when on the naughty step. bye1.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're saying that Dalglish didn't see at first hand what happened then? Is that what you are saying? You're actually calling Dalglish a liar then? He had more of a first hand view at pitchside than Motson did way up in a TV gantry! I've watched the footage and read the books about the subject! I know who I believe!

Liverpool fans climbing onto 'windows' OUTSIDE? Well that's a new one as any of the footage that I watched had no sign of windows or Liverpool fans having to scramble down outside walls....................

Duckenfield, according to judge, had a 'duty of care' towards spectator safety. He betrayed that duty of care by opening that gate. He, in his words, froze. For that, as match commander, is wholly responsible for what happened.

Stuart - as I said, stop digging. You're continuing to make yourself look like a twat.

Look up the programme Zippy then you'll stop making a cut of yourself. Dalglish was in the dug out. Moston was in the commentary box next to the box Duckenfield was in. He had a perfect view of the terrace. The footage clearly shows large crowds forming in the streets outside the ground police on horses are struggling in the surge and if you look to the buildings a number of fans are climbing onto window sills to get out of the crush. I've watched the programme again tonight. Its a BBC Panarama Documentary. Dalglish wasn't in Leppings Lane. He wasn't anywhere near the turnstiles. To take his account as the decisive one is utterly bizarre.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

attachicon.gif2016-04-26-22-56-14-1060585424.jpg

Right Dicko,here's a picture of the tunnel.There is one way in and one way out.Once the police opened the gates it would be impossible for the Fans to "back up" as you so quaintly put it.The police directed the Fans to their deaths,there is absolutely no arguement otherwise.

I understand you are an attention seeker,maybe bordering on autistic,but for once can this not be about you.Can you not find it within yourself to admit you are wrong and let the 96 rest in peace?

Who do you blame the Bradford Fire on?

SICKO DICKO.

Is Paul Duckenfield getting the blame for that one too? Perhaps that was all down to the police as well? Why am I asking, ofcourse it was. It wouldn't have been the clubs fault for having litter underneath a wooden stand, and it certainly couldn't have been the fault of the person smoking in the wooden stand who put his lit cigarette inside a paper cup - could it? f**k any chance of having a supporter take personal responsibility for their actions, huh? And sod blaming the kind of dangerous facilities that sad football fans get all nostalgic about these days. :rolleyes:

Leppings Lane had three tunnels. You walk through the turnstyle, through an open area, to where you choose which one of the three tunnels, each leading to a seperate pen, you were going to walk down. Fans weren't directed anywhere. Indeed that was one of the criticisms levelled at the police today by the enquiry who said they should have closed the middle tunnel and directed fans away. The gate was simply opened to alleviate a dangerous crush happening outside the stadium. Why couldn't fans back out when they realised the pen was full HSS? Why would that be? Was it perhaps because fans streaming through the gates were stampeding, pushing them in? Surely if they were all walking in a civilised manner as you and Zippy would have us believe, they'd have been able to u-turn and head back out to the open area before choosing a far less crowded pen. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stuart,

You blamed St. Mirren for not cancelling a game due to snow and making your sons travel via car to Paisley in the snow, saying some pish about St Mirren encouraging people to travel in unsafe conditions, putting their lives at risk, to get to a game.

Yet in this case, you are trying to put as much blame on the individual as possible despite all the evidence showing the mistakes that the police made.

Stop being an attention seeker

No I haven't. I have infact done the opposite. I've said that the police made many critical mistakes on the day, as did the ambulance service and the match day referee, who didn't delay kick off. The blame for these deaths should be shared. What I then went on to say is I cannot understand why the fans appear to have been completely exonerated when clearly it was the actions of MANY of those fans who physically caused the crushing that killed the 96 in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just think it's shameful that establishment closes ranks , lied and tried to manipulate the public opinion against a section of society considered somehow less worthy of care, compassion and a form of justice.

I just think it's a shame that Thatcher for example is not available now to be put on oath and directly challenged on allegations that she bullied ministers, police high ranking officers and policy, to cobble a cruel and spiteful end.

This is a tragedy and is an example now in a lot of our lifetimes of how history does show that no cnunt is to be trusted , especially the higher up the career ladder or the further along the governmental gravy train you crawl.

The governing establishment should be held in contempt for this, as well as its complicit press.

That is all, except of course, respect and commiserations to the families of the lost

I suppose Thatcher was the one pushing everyone down the tunnel. Like I said this witch hunt is absolutely absurd. The attempt to pervert the course of justice is of course an absolute disgrace but to blame Thatcher for the deaths of 96 people is complete nonsense. Oh and BTW it wasn't Rupert Murdochs who killed the 96 either - just saying.....:rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The failure by the authorities to close the gates to the tunnel that led to the central pens 3 & 4 once they were full led to the disaster.

The disgusting treatment of the victims and their relatives immediately after the disaster which subsequently led to cover up, blame, lies and deceit lasting over two decades is not just shocking it is CRIMINAL.

Yep, I'd agree with most of that. Certainly not closing the tunnel was a contributory factor. And the treatment of the relatives was an absolute disgrace. I've got no time for the cover up either. However don't you also think that football fans who are calling for the reversal of the very safety measures that have ensured those 96 didn't die in vain are in some way denegrating the efforts of those same relatives?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FFS Stuart, you really try to be a cnut, and succeed.

As I've said, I see it as more of an issue that people respond and see you as anything close to being important.

snore.gifsnore.gifsnore.gif

I don't think I am being a c**t in this case though. I genuinely think the verdict of unlawful killing is wrong and I think it's wrong to discount the behaviour of the fans entering Leppings Lane after the gates were opened. Whatever else happened there was a point at which they chose to go into the middle pen. There was a point where they would have known it was overcrowded and yet they pushed on in to fatal effect. How can anyone claim those fans did not have any responsibility for what happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no denying that they failed but there were many factors at play.

This was a chain of events that led to a tragedy, not the result of a single decision. I mean, where do you start with apportioning blame? Someone has said that the ground had no safety certificate so should it have been awarded the match? Should the club have accepted the match under those conditions? Should the fences have been better designed? Should fencing in fans have been the solution to hooliganism? Did the bus conveners know about all the roadworks that were going to hold them up - if not, why not? Should more turnstiles have been opened? Should kick off have been delayed? Should the crowd have been better controlled outside? Should the fans have been more patient? Would anyone have died in the crush outside if the gate hadn't been opened? We'll never know. There are dozens of things that could have prevented this before there was even a need to decide whether to open the gate. It was the cumulative effect of many decisions by many people over a prolonged period of time.

I'm not defending the police here, they f**ked up badly, but for some people to try and lay the blame at the feet of one man is just silly. I'm also not trying to blame any individual, group or organisation, I'm just stating what should be obvious to everyone.

I'm also not defending any of the later lies and cover ups, those responsible for that should be strung up.

Totally agree. Indeed it's pretty much what I've been trying to say only far more eloquently put. You can go back further too with the blame game. Liverpool fans themselves were proud of their reputation as "scallys" going on the rob everytime they went to away grounds in the UK and across Europe. How much of a role of their reputation - one that saw the club banned from Europe having been very much responsible in the deaths of 39 football fans at Heysel just four years earlier - play in the decision making at Hillsborough that day? And how important was the role of terracing in all of this? We know that the club chairmen right across the UK failed to act over previous disasters and near misses at football stadia. Rangers took motivation from the Ibrox disaster to modernise Ibrox to an all seater stadium, but how many others learned the same lessons? At Hillsborough we know that a similar disaster to the one in 1989 was narrowly averted in 1981 when Spurs played Wolverhampton Wanderers in an FA Cup Semi Final. Why was that venue chosen again 8 years later?

It's far too easy and too convenient to blame one police officer and to hunt him down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree. Indeed it's pretty much what I've been trying to say only far more eloquently put. You can go back further too with the blame game. Liverpool fans themselves were proud of their reputation as "scallys" going on the rob everytime they went to away grounds in the UK and across Europe. How much of a role of their reputation - one that saw the club banned from Europe having been very much responsible in the deaths of 39 football fans at Heysel just four years earlier - play in the decision making at Hillsborough that day?

© The Sun

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's far too easy and too convenient to blame one police officer and to hunt him down.

I agree, his actions on the day are reprehensible and he needs to be made to account for them. That's not the end of it, though, we need a comprehensive investigation into just who knew of, and ordered, the cover up, no matter how high up that might go. Imo "Saint Maggie" played a very large part in it but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to be revealed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look up the programme Zippy then you'll stop making a cut of yourself. Dalglish was in the dug out. Moston was in the commentary box next to the box Duckenfield was in. He had a perfect view of the terrace. The footage clearly shows large crowds forming in the streets outside the ground police on horses are struggling in the surge and if you look to the buildings a number of fans are climbing onto window sills to get out of the crush. I've watched the programme again tonight. Its a BBC Panarama Documentary. Dalglish wasn't in Leppings Lane. He wasn't anywhere near the turnstiles. To take his account as the decisive one is utterly bizarre.

Duckenfield was in the control room next to the Leppings Lane end, BTW. The control room wasn't next to the commentary box you f**king idiot.

Dalglish saw the whole thing unfold right in front of him. The tragedy unfolded in pens 3 and 4 NOT the turnstiles.

I have read the testimonies and watched the programmes and I'll know whose testimony I will believe.

Easy to spot who is making a c**t of himself. What's bizarre is that I am wasting my time arguing with a moron. We'll agree to disagree here but it's clear to see you are in a minority of one.

You are more to be pitied than scorned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is Paul Duckenfield getting the blame for that one too? Perhaps that was all down to the police as well? Why am I asking, ofcourse it was. It wouldn't have been the clubs fault for having litter underneath a wooden stand, and it certainly couldn't have been the fault of the person smoking in the wooden stand who put his lit cigarette inside a paper cup - could it? f**k any chance of having a supporter take personal responsibility for their actions, huh? And sod blaming the kind of dangerous facilities that sad football fans get all nostalgic about these days. rolleyes.gif

Leppings Lane had three tunnels. You walk through the turnstyle, through an open area, to where you choose which one of the three tunnels, each leading to a seperate pen, you were going to walk down. Fans weren't directed anywhere. Indeed that was one of the criticisms levelled at the police today by the enquiry who said they should have closed the middle tunnel and directed fans away. The gate was simply opened to alleviate a dangerous crush happening outside the stadium. Why couldn't fans back out when they realised the pen was full HSS? Why would that be? Was it perhaps because fans streaming through the gates were stampeding, pushing them in? Surely if they were all walking in a civilised manner as you and Zippy would have us believe, they'd have been able to u-turn and head back out to the open area before choosing a far less crowded pen. rolleyes.gif

Leppings Lane actually had one tunnel.

And show me any of my posts that had the fans walking in a civilised manner as you put it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...