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Hillsborough Disaster Verdict

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I don't think he cares how any of these families feels at all.

He has deluded himself that he doesn't need to go through the 2 years of evidence line by line but can make conclusions on the basis of a few minutes of grainy footage on the BBC.

Absolutely. The jury heard 2 years worth of evidence before coming to their conclusion. Their decision in law is now FACT.

Irrespective of who is to blame it should never have taken 27 years to get the truth. The police, the ambulance, and the press all told blatant lies about the events of the day that prolonged the agony for all of those that suffered. Remember as well as the ones that died others suffered physical and metal problems as a result of the events.

My respect goes to the families of the deceased who for 27 years fought for justice against an institutional brickwall with respect, tenacity and a determined stubbornness to ensure that the truth be told.

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There are people who think that Stuart adds to the forum, as he generates a "following" who take great delight in pouncing on his every word.

Does he believe the stuff he posts?

I happen to believe it's a mixture of belief and a serious effort to annoy/wind up.

Whatever it might be he makes a serious effort to cause disruption, slightly counterbalanced by the odd "like me" post.

The issue is that people regularly jump into his world, which makes it easier for him to continually feed the desire to have a go at him.

An attention seeker, most definitely, and damn good at it, but the real issue is the continual responses he gets to feed this desire.

No point in getting all "angry" at him, either let it go or ignore him, although there is an equal need to respond from many.

He provides a service, and a important outlet for many, weird, eh?

Who is this person to whom you are referring.....? blink.png

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One tunnel or three, it's irrelevant when you are herded to one.

I did a college project on Health & Safety many years back and Hillsborough was the chosen subject. The tunnel set up was like a pitchfork; there was one main tunnel then, further down the passage, there was one off to each side. So as you'd come in from the turnstiles you would be contained in the central section which, by a certain point, would have had fans backed up beyond the other two entrances. Therefore creating one tunnel full of people at the main entrance.

Yes, there would have been a means of escape for some but if you'd gone straight ahead, realised the situation, decided to turn back & go into an adjacent pathway you wouldn't be able to as a load of others would have come in at your back.

Either way, this is smoke and mirrors to the main issue, namely that the match commander admitted his folly and his responsibility.

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I did a college project on Health & Safety many years back and Hillsborough was the chosen subject. The tunnel set up was like a pitchfork; there was one main tunnel then, further down the passage, there was one off to each side. So as you'd come in from the turnstiles you would be contained in the central section which, by a certain point, would have had fans backed up beyond the other two entrances. Therefore creating one tunnel full of people at the main entrance.

Yes, there would have been a means of escape for some but if you'd gone straight ahead, realised the situation, decided to turn back & go into an adjacent pathway you wouldn't be able to as a load of others would have come in at your back.

Either way, this is smoke and mirrors to the main issue, namely that the match commander admitted his folly and his responsibility.

Based on our pre season visit last year, I still find it a horrible set up from the road to the front of the stand. There's still so much of the design that looks the same.

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Yes there were three tunnels. However the impact of opening exit Gate C led straight towards the central tunnel. Central tunnel to pens 3 & 4 should have been closed before Gate C was opened.

The natural movement of a crowd entering gate C was directly towards the central tunnel.

Many of these fans would have been attending Hillsborough for the first time and would not have been aware of the right and left pens. You can see how difficult it would have been for fans to know how to get to pens 1&2 and especially pens 6&7 from gate C.

Answer this honestly. Which tunnel would you have most likely ended up in entering that stadium either through the turnstyles or Gate C.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0001.html

Its clear from that footage that it is difficult enough to clearly see the signposts for the end pens.

Replicate that into being caught up in a human wave entering that exit gate and it would have been nigh on impossible to reach those pens and instead be almost catapulted into the tunnel. In fact, if you read some of the witness statements in Phil Scraton's book some spoke of almost being swept off their feet towards the tunnel area. And what didn't help matters was the design of the tunnel was a 1:4 gradient leading to people losing their feet in the ensuing chaos.

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The fence went from the main stand building all the way across the car park, and in the middle of the fence was a gate probably no more than 15' - 20' wide. The crush at the bottleneck was ridiculous. Thousands of Scottish fans trying to get from the West terrace to Kings Park, and thousands trying to go the other way. I was fortunate, as the crush got worse and I started to struggle to breathe an adult - whom I didn't know - pulled me up onto his shoulders. As far as I know no-one died that night, but I saw several falling and being trampled on. It was scary.

So why didn't you just turn back and find another way? That's what you said the Liverpool fans should have done. When you get into a crowd situation of that sort, it's nigh on impossible to 'decide' where to go, or how fast to proceed. The crowd carries you on. Liverpool fans may well have wanted to turn around, but couldn't.

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Am I wrong to buy The Sun ( Monday, Wednesday, Friday & Saturday ) to read the excellent Columns by Bill Leckie, Tam Cowan & Ally Ross ?

What have they got to do with Liverpool ?

Tuesday & Friday also for the Daily Mail, just for Littlejohn's superb Column.

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And what didn't help matters was the design of the tunnel was a 1:4 gradient leading to people losing their feet in the ensuing chaos.

The gradient in the the central tunnel was 1:6

I imagine that the side tunnels would have been the same ratio.

Edited by Slash

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Am I wrong to buy The Sun ( Monday, Wednesday, Friday & Saturday ) to read the excellent Columns by Bill Leckie, Tam Cowan & Ally Ross ?

What have they got to do with Liverpool ?

Tuesday & Friday also for the Daily Mail, just for Littlejohn's superb Column.

Must try harder....

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