Kendo Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 We have a right wing government no matter who leads us at this time. If you are voting on Tory leadership rather the a European vote then you are off the mark mate. As for worker rights are you having a laugh the Tory party have changed the rules along with labour plenty times while we have been in the EU. You need to go back to the drawing board mate and stop listening to the properganda machine. David Cameron would be booted out and the people such as Boris would be hailed as heroes. You do realise he is ON record saying he wants to do away with workers rights that Europe has imposed on Britain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) If you are a right wing political supporter then that's what vote leave will result in. The Tories will oust David Cameron and the right wing Tories will run our country with a mandate claimed through the country voting to leave. God help the NHS and workers rights. That's nonsense and scaremongering on a ridiculous scale and it's not backed with any justifiable evidence at all. Look across Europe right now. Whether you are looking at the National Front in France, the Freedom Party in Austria, or the Jobbik Party in Hungary the extreme right is growing in popularity right across the EU. Even Angela Merkel comes from a Centre Right party in German politics. The idea that the EU is a Socialist enclave is so outdated these days as to be utterly ridiculous. It's also nonsense to claim that the UK didn't have workers rights before we joined the EEC in 1973. Our Westminster governments didn't need an undemocratic bunch of bureaucrats to tell us to create the NHS or our generous welfare state or to give our workers tea breaks or holidays - they were all already in place before 1973. The EU also had nothing to do with the introduction in the UK of a minimum wage, or the current living wage. Indeed the only real change to workers rights after the EEC became the EU was the working time directive which meant that workers like myself were being told we could no longer increase our earnings by working all the overtime that was on offer, without first signing a waiver form. As for the NHS - I think it's now widely accepted that the biggest risk to the NHS as we know it is the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership agreement which has been ratified already by the EU. And I am telling you this as someone who will vote to remain in the referendum. I wish people would switch their brains on when listening to shit propaganda from either side. The bottom line, as Martin Lewis correctly and succinctly stated yesterday is that none of us know for certain what the outcome of voting to remain or to leave will be. If you were to risk manage the options you would have to say that in terms of our jobs, economy and collective wealth there is less risk involved in remaining in the EU because that is the status quo. There is greater risk in leaving the EU because that is change. However again as Martin Lewis said, not all risk is bad - and often some of the biggest wins come from taking a really big risk (like betting on Leicester to win the EPL at 5000-1). Voters need to decide whether they want to take a bigger risk, or a smaller risk and I suppose that depends on what you've got to lose. Me? I'd prefer less risk. Others can decide for themselves. Edited June 11, 2016 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Still not heard anything from the remain camp to convince me from voting to leave. As for politicians the bore me to death it's like listening to children in a play ground. The EU is not democratic though that could be used for the UK political landscape also. In what way is either political system undemocratic? You have elected an MEP to the European Parliament. They are there to represent you and they vote on various items of legislature on your behalf. If you don't believe they are representing you very well than you will get your opportunity to elect someone else to represent your views next time round. The person who will be elected as your MEP will be the person who got the most votes from the locals in your constituency. That is perfectly democratic. As is Westminster. You've elected your MP. They are supposed to be representing you at Westminster. If you don't believe they are doing a good job you'll get your opportunity to vote for someone else next time. Again your MP was the person who won the most votes in your constituency, and the Prime Minister was the leader of the party who won a majority of seats in the House of Commons. That's all perfectly democratic. What isn't quite so democratic is the Scottish Parliament, where you do get to elect an MSP to represent your views, but where party leaders can appoint candidates through the list system who haven't been chosen by their electorate to represent them but who are instead appointed by party leaders to represent their political party. Ofcourse that then becomes utterly farcical when list MSP's subsequently either resign the whip, or who have the party whip removed from them because then the get to remain as MSP's representing no-one other than themselves - as happened during the last parliament. Edited June 11, 2016 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 In what way is either political system undemocratic? You have elected an MEP to the European Parliament. They are there to represent you and they vote on various items of legislature on your behalf. If you don't believe they are representing you very well than you will get your opportunity to elect someone else to represent your views next time round. The person who will be elected as your MEP will be the person who got the most votes from the locals in your constituency. That is perfectly democratic. As is Westminster. You've elected your MP. They are supposed to be representing you at Westminster. If you don't believe they are doing a good job you'll get your opportunity to vote for someone else next time. Again your MP was the person who won the most votes in your constituency, and the Prime Minister was the leader of the party who won a majority of seats in the House of Commons. That's all perfectly democratic. What isn't quite so democratic is the Scottish Parliament, where you do get to elect an MSP to represent your views, but where party leaders can appoint candidates through the list system who haven't been chosen by their electorate to represent them but who are instead appointed by party leaders to represent their political party. Ofcourse that then becomes utterly farcical when list MSP's subsequently either resign the whip, or who have the party whip removed from them because then the get to remain as MSP's representing no-one other than themselves - as happened during the last parliament. EU judge's suppose these unelected burocarts don't make up EU rules ? Ofcourse they do . You obviously are another who needs to read up on who makes EU rules there is a whole chamber of unelected people who make EU rules also. Just type this into Google - Who makes EU rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 EU judge's suppose these unelected burocarts don't make up EU rules ? Ofcourse they do . You obviously are another who needs to read up on who makes EU rules there is a whole chamber of unelected people who make EU rules also. Just type this into Google - Who makes EU rules. Are you reading the Beano again? How EU decisions are made The EU’s standard decision-making procedure is known as 'Ordinary Legislative Procedure’ (ex "codecision"). This means that the directly elected European Parliament has to approve EU legislation together with the Council (the governments of the 28 EU countries). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Are you reading the Beano again? How EU decisions are made The EU’s standard decision-making procedure is known as 'Ordinary Legislative Procedure’ (ex "codecision"). This means that the directly elected European Parliament has to approve EU legislation together with the Council (the governments of the 28 EU countries). The Beno is that still being published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 The Beno is that still being published. https://www.beano.com/ Happy to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) IOBS, you're arguing with someone who thinks that Westminster is more democratic than Holyrood. You know, Westminster, where the party with just over a third of the votes in the election gets to be in government. And includes the House of Lords, voted for, democratically, by no-one at all. Much better than that Holyrood system that tries to reflect how the voters actually voted, how could anyone think that's even close to democracy. Edited June 11, 2016 by salmonbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted June 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Hollywood are pro leave, they're releasing the new Independence Day movie on the day of the referendum and advertising it on TV and radio with the phrase "the day we take back our independence". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 IOBS, you're arguing with someone who thinks that Westminster is more democratic than Holyrood. You know, Westminster, where the party with just over a third of the votes in the election gets to be in government. And includes the House of Lords, voted for, democratically, by no-one at all. Much better than that Holyrood system that tries to reflect how the voters actually voted, how could anyone think that's even close to democracy. You think it's more democratic to have party members who have been rejected by their constituencies appointed as MSP's to represent their party? The Holyrood system is f**king bonkers. As we saw during the last parliament two MSP's who were rejected by their constituencies were appointed through the list system to represent the SNP and promptly resigned their whip. Who the f**k were they representing? And yet there was no way to oust them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 IOBS, you're arguing with someone who thinks that Westminster is more democratic than Holyrood. You know, Westminster, where the party with just over a third of the votes in the election gets to be in government. And includes the House of Lords, voted for, democratically, by no-one at all. Much better than that Holyrood system that tries to reflect how the voters actually voted, how could anyone think that's even close to democracy. You think it's more democratic to have party members who have been rejected by their constituencies appointed as MSP's to represent their party? The Holyrood system is f**king bonkers. As we saw during the last parliament two MSP's who were rejected by their constituencies were appointed through the list system to represent the SNP and promptly resigned their whip. Who the f**k were they representing? And yet there was no way to oust them. Read the words. Voters. Democracy. Don't elect them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Voted for independence and I'll be voting to leave the EU also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Read the words. Voters. Democracy. Don't elect them again. Hows that work then? They were rejected by their constituencies in the first place so the electorate didn't vote for them. Today John Finnie is back in again as an MSP appointed through the list system by the Green Party - having again been rejected by his constituency. Jean Urquhart also tried to work her ticket by joining RISE and being the top list candidate. The Holyrood system is corrupt and undemocratic. When your constituency rejects you, you shouldn't be subsequently appointed by your party. Edited June 11, 2016 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 John Finnie never stood for election as a constituency MSP in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorizaar Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 EU judge's suppose these unelected burocarts don't make up EU rules ? Ofcourse they do . You obviously are another who needs to read up on who makes EU rules there is a whole chamber of unelected people who make EU rules also. Just type this into Google - Who makes EU rules. Your Google must be broken. EU legislation has to be passed by the parliament and the council which is made up of member countries representatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Your Google must be broken. EU legislation has to be passed by the parliament and the council which is made up of member countries representatives. The EU judge's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I'm still voting to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 John Finnie never stood for election as a constituency MSP in May. He didn't need to - "democracy" in Scotland allowed him a free pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 The EU judge's ? What exactly are you claiming they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Hows that work then? They were rejected by their constituencies in the first place so the electorate didn't vote for them. Today John Finnie is back in again as an MSP appointed through the list system by the Green Party - having again been rejected by his constituency. Jean Urquhart also tried to work her ticket by joining RISE and being the top list candidate. The Holyrood system is corrupt and undemocratic. When your constituency rejects you, you shouldn't be subsequently appointed by your party. House of Lords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 With all the same tales of woe (jobs, pensions, etc) being used by the Remain side in this referendum as were used by the No side in the last referendum, does that mean that the UK is too wee, too poor and too stupid to make it on its own? Just asking. :Not sure but Cameron was on Andrew Marr yesterday saying of course Norway is doing well outside the EU, they've got the same amount of oil as uk but only 4 million population.Brass necked c**t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Not sure but Cameron was on Andrew Marr yesterday saying of course Norway is doing well outside the EU, they've got the same amount of oil as uk but only 4 million population. Brass necked c**t Couldn't even get that right, population of Norway is almost exactly the same as Scotland's, 5.2m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergie's no1 fan Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Leave odds were nearly 4/1 a week or so ago, now the best price your getting is 7/5. Maybe a good time to bring this tweet up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 We are in the EU and I keep hearing stay in the EU to protect workers rights. Seriously ? Zero hours contracts , rules changed for the right to strike what has the EU done to protect workers rights here. Hee Haw thats what. Now the Atlantic agreement is being drawn up by ? Oh yes unelcted EU bureaucrats. When that kicks in your National Health Service will mostly go private in the blink of an eye. If US medical firms are knocked back when they can do the job cheaper the EU will receive a very heavy fine. Our rail service is a perfect exsample of what is to come. Firms from abroad coming in example being the Dutch Rail company wanting to do away with guards in the uk to push up profits that go out the country to Holland. Great to see the exist vote in the lead. Now the really scary stories will keep in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 We are in the EU and I keep hearing stay in the EU to protect workers rights. Seriously ? Zero hours contracts , rules changed for the right to strike what has the EU done to protect workers rights here. Hee Haw thats what. Now the Atlantic agreement is being drawn up by ? Oh yes unelcted EU bureaucrats. When that kicks in your National Health Service will mostly go private in the blink of an eye. If US medical firms are knocked back when they can do the job cheaper the EU will receive a very heavy fine. Our rail service is a perfect exsample of what is to come. Firms from abroad coming in example being the Dutch Rail company wanting to do away with guards in the uk to push up profits that go out the country to Holland. Great to see the exist vote in the lead. Now the really scary stories will keep in. Although they are a disgusting modern day phenomenon, the vast majority of people are NOT on zero hours contracts and nobody is forced to work on them either. You make it sound as though they are the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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