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1 hour ago, FTOF said:

In other words.

#SNPBaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Surprisingly unconstructive of you, FTOF.  :(

It's only 'inother words', if you switch your brain off and don't engage with reality, which is what dougjamie is offering.

I'm surprised the wishaw troll hasn't been on pointing out how wee Nicola's suggestion of post-Brexit for Scotland being like The Faroes is somewhat flawed.

 

TheFaroes started their negotiations in 2006 and are still not in the EU (actually not even 'in' an offshoot of it like Norway is).

 

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1 hour ago, antrin said:

Surprisingly unconstructive of you, FTOF.  :(

It's only 'inother words', if you switch your brain off and don't engage with reality, which is what dougjamie is offering.

I'm surprised the wishaw troll hasn't been on pointing out how wee Nicola's suggestion of post-Brexit for Scotland being like The Faroes is somewhat flawed.

 

TheFaroes started their negotiations in 2006 and are still not in the EU (actually not even 'in' an offshoot of it like Norway is).

 

The example of the Faroes is reasonable. Its irrelevant that the process has taken them so long. The Faroes have never been in the EU. 

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Guest TPAFKATS
Whilst I have made my stance clear, I am for Scotland trading us a single market at some point, I am totally against the UK government publishing anything at this stage... We don't hold any cards, so we cant play them
This is not a Tory problem its a UK one...
around 10m voted Tory but over 17m voted leave. People forget this. 17m have never voted for anything. Thats a message
The same fear that plagued the SNP campaign of 2014, is now being played by the SNP with leave.... Its totally harmful and selfish
History will show Cameron as one of the most useless and destructive  PMs of all time, Blair may well have done Iran, but Cameron did Britain.
If Cameron had given the Devo Max that Salmond wanted we never would have got 45% Independence, also if Cameron had actually listened to the electorate and the fact that UKIP got 4.2m votes, he never should have given a leave EU in 2016.
There is a mugginess with SNP , that's plaguing Scotland............... Its almost , we cant lose here..... well we can.....
We now have close to Devo Max............ SNP..... run our country........... show what we are capable of............ or please lose and let another party run our affairs.
Fed up with this England are dragging us down shit, I work in the North of England Public Sector and trust me we are far better off than they are.......... Thats why the voted in their millions for a voice and change
We are not victims, the world is in a bad place, it was a shocking idea to have that vote this year, but its a good idea that federalism stops, it just doesn't work, we just should never have jumped, that totally weakened our position.................
So before we paint our faces, wear kilts and do all the other things that didn't happen in William Wallaces spat, its time to survive, not split...
Oh, just for the record, the Torys are despicable in every way however at this point, over next 2 years, we have to support, and if you cant see that, then like Culloden we are heading for an another massacre
 

I'm not sure what fear campaign the SNP are running on this so some examples would be good.

I'm certain we don't have anything like Devo Max.

Culloden? Ach, fer f**k sake!
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38 minutes ago, tony soprano said:


I'm not sure what fear campaign the SNP are running on this so some examples would be good.

I'm certain we don't have anything like Devo Max.

Culloden? Ach, fer f**k sake!

U know Tony this is why I distance myself for the f**kwits that supposedly are "Yes"....  You can always tell as in they cant take any constructive criticism.

As for your points lets just for fun answer them, try not to get all upset and quote SNP Baaaaaaaaaad just like the forums tell you. Also to dare to disagree with anything my party(SNP) says makes me a Tory shit.

 

Nicola has certainly laid out plenty of fear cards, with Scottish trade deals ending, investment ending, freedom of movement ending- I should know, I was at one of her speeches- whilst, as I  said, I want Scotland Independent, I don't think we are anywhere near ready, plus 55% agree with that so until SNP address that its all wind.... I don't have to agree with everything that the SNP say or do

In case you didn't know, we have our own laws, practices and now tax raising powers, we also have our own parliament, MSPs, MEPs, and a big £400m building in Edinburgh that the "British" tax payer paid for   .

My reference to Culloden, if you know your history, was that a band of Scots got defeated, not just by the English but  mainly Scots, they used better tactics, and also the battlefield was against the Scots , pretty similar to the battles the SNP are taking on- ergo- one we cant win- Just now. also a waste of energy when in fact they should be governing us.....  Student/ Farmer and Fishing loans are all massively behind schedule, effecting hard working and future talents lives

So do shout Baaaaaaad- but actually unlike the new breed of Yes, they are actually the sheep. 

 

Plus the 0.2 Drink limit is killing pubs and clubs and encouraging Home drinking....................

Get off Soap Box now and Merry Xmas

Edited by DougJamie
spelling
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2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The example of the Faroes is reasonable. Its irrelevant that the process has taken them so long. The Faroes have never been in the EU. 

Reasonable as in, "It will be a MINIMUM of ten years before anything can be sorted out for Scotland (which has also never been in the EU) to get close to being in (well, within a subsection of) the EU, just as is currently happening with The Faroes".

 

Aye. 

VERY reas:wacko:nable. 

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U know Tony this is why I distance myself for the f**kwits that supposedly are "Yes"....  You can always tell as in they cant take any constructive criticism.
As for your points lets just for fun answer them, try not to get all upset and quote SNP Baaaaaaaaaad just like the forums tell you. Also to dare to disagree with anything my party(SNP) says makes me a Tory shit.
 
Nicola has certainly laid out plenty of fear cards, with Scottish trade deals ending, investment ending, freedom of movement ending- I should know, I was at one of her speeches- whilst, as I  said, I want Scotland Independent, I don't think we are anywhere near ready, plus 55% agree with that so until SNP address that its all wind.... I don't have to agree with everything that the SNP say or do
In case you didn't know, we have our own laws, practices and now tax raising powers, we also have our own parliament, MSPs, MEPs, and a big £400m building in Edinburgh that the "British" tax payer paid for   .
My reference to Culloden, if you know your history, was that a band of Scots got defeated, not just by the English but  mainly Scots, they used better tactics, and also the battlefield was against the Scots , pretty similar to the battles the SNP are taking on- ergo- one we cant win- Just now. also a waste of energy when in fact they should be governing us.....  Student/ Farmer and Fishing loans are all massively behind schedule, effecting hard working and future talents lives
So do shout Baaaaaaad- but actually unlike the new breed of Yes, they are actually the sheep. 
 
Plus the 0.2 Drink limit is killing pubs and clubs and encouraging Home drinking....................
Get off Soap Box now and Merry Xmas


If you truly think that what we have now is Devo Max then you're not thinking.

And if the limit is responsible for killing pubs and club, what's doing it in rUK?
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2 hours ago, DougJamie said:

U know Tony this is why I distance myself for the f**kwits that supposedly are "Yes"....  You can always tell as in they cant take any constructive criticism.

 

Let me know when you post some and I'll gladly engage in reasoned discussion.

Although when you use the terms "f**kwits" and "sheep" to describe people who voted yes it doesn't appear that you're capable of reasoned discussion.

Edited by FTOF
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2 hours ago, antrin said:

Reasonable as in, "It will be a MINIMUM of ten years before anything can be sorted out for Scotland (which has also never been in the EU) to get close to being in (well, within a subsection of) the EU, just as is currently happening with The Faroes".

 

Aye. 

VERY reas:wacko:nable. 

What? Who is saying it will take a minimum of ten years for Scotland?

Scotland is in the EU now.

If you want to start pissing about splitting hairs over this I will leave you to talk to Dickson on your own.

Edited by oaksoft
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4 hours ago, DougJamie said:

U know Tony this is why I distance myself for the f**kwits that supposedly are "Yes"....  You can always tell as in they cant take any constructive criticism.

As for your points lets just for fun answer them, try not to get all upset and quote SNP Baaaaaaaaaad just like the forums tell you. Also to dare to disagree with anything my party(SNP) says makes me a Tory shit.

 

Nicola has certainly laid out plenty of fear cards, with Scottish trade deals ending, investment ending, freedom of movement ending- I should know, I was at one of her speeches- whilst, as I  said, I want Scotland Independent, I don't think we are anywhere near ready, plus 55% agree with that so until SNP address that its all wind.... I don't have to agree with everything that the SNP say or do

In case you didn't know, we have our own laws, practices and now tax raising powers, we also have our own parliament, MSPs, MEPs, and a big £400m building in Edinburgh that the "British" tax payer paid for   .

My reference to Culloden, if you know your history, was that a band of Scots got defeated, not just by the English but  mainly Scots, they used better tactics, and also the battlefield was against the Scots , pretty similar to the battles the SNP are taking on- ergo- one we cant win- Just now. also a waste of energy when in fact they should be governing us.....  Student/ Farmer and Fishing loans are all massively behind schedule, effecting hard working and future talents lives

So do shout Baaaaaaad- but actually unlike the new breed of Yes, they are actually the sheep. 

 

Plus the 0.2 Drink limit is killing pubs and clubs and encouraging Home drinking....................

Get off Soap Box now and Merry Xmas

It is a good thing if bars and clubs are shutting down. We have too many of them and an appalling obsession with alcohol.

None of that has to do with the drink drive limit. Bars and clubs have been in decline for decades.

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3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

What? Who is saying it will take a minimum of ten years for Scotland?

Scotland is in the EU now.

If you want to start pissing about splitting hairs over this I will leave you to talk to Dickson on your own.

No.

YOU split the hair.  You were and are simply wrong.

Scotland as a region of UK is in the EU.

 

Regions do not just swan into the EU.

 

But fair enough.  Missing you already.

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Guest TPAFKATS
So you agree that, currently, Scotland is in the EU? What if we became independent prior to completion of Brexit, then, that would make things interesting.

Loads of EU power brokers alluding to us staying in once independent if it happens prior to Brexit.

Of course it could be grandstanding ahead of negotiations with UK but it's a good sign for Indy Scotland.
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Guest TPAFKATS
Let me know when you post some and I'll gladly engage in reasoned discussion.
Although when you use the terms "f**kwits" and "sheep" to describe people who voted yes it doesn't appear that you're capable of reasoned discussion.

Thanks, saved me a long winded response to DougJamie
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3 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

So you agree that, currently, Scotland is in the EU? What if we became independent prior to completion of Brexit, then, that would make things interesting.

I have to presume you're answering oaky, there.  So I may be answering a question meant for someone else.

 

 

However,  I had just written about Scotland as a region of the UK being in the EU.

 

Which is a bit like writing Elderslie (No disrespect intended, Neil... and Windae Cleaner...)  is currently in the EU.

 

If Elderslie became independent ahead of Brexit it would be in exactly the same situation wrt the EU as an independent Scotland.

 

ie   none.  No situation, no special rights, no head start, no nothing.

 

I think.

 

Big countries IN the EU, with similar problems as the UK with regard to separatists will never acquiesce....

Though 'never' is a long time.

Edited by antrin
clarity, I hope...
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I have to presume you're answering oaky, there.  So I may be answering a question meant for someone else.

 

 

However,  I had just written about Scotland as a region of the UK being in the EU.

 

Which is a bit like writing Elderslie (No disrespect intended, Neil... and Windae Cleaner...)  is currently in the EU.

 

If Elderslie became independent ahead of Brexit it would be in exactly the same situation wrt the EU as an independent Scotland.

 

ie   none.  No situation, no special rights, no head start, no nothing.

 

I think.

 

Big countries IN the EU, with similar problems as the UK with regard to separatists will never acquiesce....

Though 'never' is a long time.

No, it was you, and you know it was.

That's where we disagree, under those circumstances the EU would take great delight in accepting an independent Scotland as a member immediately thereby giving a huge GIRFUY to rUK.

And Elderslie has ALWAYS been independent...

:)

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I have to presume you're answering oaky, there.  So I may be answering a question meant for someone else.
 
 
However,  I had just written about Scotland as a region of the UK being in the EU.
 
Which is a bit like writing Elderslie (No disrespect intended, Neil... and Windae Cleaner...)  is currently in the EU.
 
If Elderslie became independent ahead of Brexit it would be in exactly the same situation wrt the EU as an independent Scotland.
 
ie   none.  No situation, no special rights, no head start, no nothing.
 
I think.
 
Big countries IN the EU, with similar problems as the UK with regard to separatists will never acquiesce....
Though 'never' is a long time.


This isn't an appropriate comparison. Elderslie doesn't have its own legislature capable of creating laws that meet EU standards. Elderslie doesn't have it's own judicial system with judges capable of interpreting and applying EU laws within its judgments. Elderslie doesn't have official measures for ensuring respect for human rights and democracy. Elderslie doesn't have a functioning market economy capable of integrating and operating within the single market.

All of those are elements within the Copenhagen criteria (the criteria that is expanded into the chapters which candidate countries to the EU must demonstrate with evidence that they meet prior to a vote being allowed to be taken within the EU parliament to allowing them to be granted EU membership). Scotland has all of those in place currently due to the unique way that the countries within the UK are devolved as well as historical separation of our judiciaries to a massive extent.

The only main stumbling block with Scotland applying for Member State status in its own right if made independent would be to have evidence of an economy that it controls independently of the rest of the UK. It would need its own central bank or an agreement to separately control its currency in some way.

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And so, ZA, The Faroes (my original point for comparison) which is now ten years into its "entry process" to an adjunct of the EU WOULD be considered reasonable - and thus reasonably pessimistic?

 

I am well aware  that Paisley would never allow Elderslie it's freedom!

 

 

:whistle

 

 

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24 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:


As a resident once said, they can take our lives but they cannie take our pubs. emoji34.png

Cannie believe the scriptwriters changed that bit as well. 

You should have seen the original drafts.  A bit like dickhead on speed.

 

someone after me, also excised the lines about the verdant battlefield of Love Street..

 

Honest!  Partly...

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16 hours ago, antrin said:

No.

YOU split the hair.  You were and are simply wrong.

Scotland as a region of UK is in the EU.

 

Regions do not just swan into the EU.

 

But fair enough.  Missing you already.

Region or not, we are part of the EU right now and are coming at this from an entirely different position from the Faroes.

Stop treating people like idiots.

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