Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Kendo

Eu Referendum

EU referendum   

80 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

Ok so what is the credible long term case that we would all be financially better off out of Europe? If common sense suggests we would all be worse off in the short term what is the common sense argument that suggests that in 20 years we won't regret it?

Why are you so obsessed with finance to the exclusion of everything else?

In 10 to 20 years time if we leave the EU all of the legal stuff will have been dealt with. We will have our agreements with member states and its not unreasonable to assume we will be where Norway is now.

Beyond that I am not making the case for or against Brexit as I havent made my own mind up.

My decision will be based on a number of things.

Accepting disruption of a Brexit over a few years...

In 10 years time will....

The UK be able to fund science on its own or do we need the EU?

Do I want to be able to travel and work in the EU without a visa?

Do i think the EU is democratic enough?

Has the EU prevented another major world war between its members?

Will doing business without an open market be more difficult or expensive?

Given we dont have enough immigration now, where do businesses get staff from given our own youth are too lazy to do low paid jobs?

None of those are short term considerations.

Edited by oaksoft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The markets are way ahead of things regardless.

When we were bounced out the ERM the market reset was swift and was very beneficial to to us. The pound found its proper level which helped exports, employment increased and our economy became more competitive. The scenario isnt the same this time. But the markets will readjust very swiftly and our economy WILL cope very well.

If anyone is genuinely wanting to know what our exit strategy would look like rather than simply parroting back shite that politicians spout then take a look through this. There is a way to remove uncertainty for markets and this is it. It keeps us with access to all the same markets and its economically neutral.

The leave campaign were going to run with this but decided to run with immigrants and other pish. Up to them, but the exit strategy IS there and its actually the only sensible way to deal with things if its an out vote.

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

edit to add the document.. that tends to help <_<

There is absolutely no chance I or virtually anyone else is going to read a 410 page document on europe.

This is the problem.No f**king commonsense from anyone on either side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are you so obsessed with finance to the exclusion of everything else?

Indeed... Why not look longer term to see that increased immigration purely to boost the economy has resulted in a rise in racism and extremist behaviour as people look for someone to blame for the ultimate downturn in the economy?

Why not look at the Scottish Governments failed attempt to integrate us into one country many cultures... resulting in one country divided into numerous ethnic based ghettos, all suspicious of one another.

How far ahead do you want to look... or does your utopian bubble not allow you glimpses of the potential reality?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed... Why not look longer term to see that increased immigration purely to boost the economy has resulted in a rise in racism and extremist behaviour as people look for someone to blame for the ultimate downturn in the economy?

Why not look at the Scottish Governments failed attempt to integrate us into one country many cultures... resulting in one country divided into numerous ethnic based ghettos, all suspicious of one another.

How far ahead do you want to look... or does your utopian bubble not allow you glimpses of the potential reality?

For me immigration simply isnt a problem because I am not a racist nor are my career prospects damaged by it to any extent.

IF my prospects WERE damaged by it I would do something about it rather than embarass myself by whining on forums or getting an arm full of tattoos and marching with the white righters.

Personally I love walking through Glashow and Edinburgh and hearing lots of accents and other languages being spoken.

Nothing utopian about that viewpoint.

Blaming any government for racist Scots is stupid but you either believe in personal responsibility or you dont,

Edited by oaksoft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me immigration simply isnt a problem because I am not a racist nor are my career prospects damaged by it to any extent.

IF my prospects WERE damaged by it I would do something about it rather than embarass myself by whining on forums or getting an arm full of tattoos and marching with the white righters.

Personally I love walking through Glashow and Edinburgh and hearing lots of accents and other languages being spoken.

Nothing utopian about that viewpoint.

Blaming any government for racist Scots is stupid but you either believe in personal responsibility or you dont,

Immigration in itself is not a problem... Scotland is a much richer culture for the wide range of cultures that have enhanced our Country over the years.

However... What we are now experiencing and what we face is something very different and if you genuinely do not think it will personally affect you then you are naive beyond measure!

Enjoy your utopian bubble existence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Schizophrenic? Ha! He's bloody Quadrophonic!

Who ?

I'm oscillating from a Remain to a Leave and then back to Remain again.

What concerns me about remaining is the combination of lack of democracy in the EU and the legislative impact on UK businesses from that undemocratic bloc. I side with Leave at this point.

I then look around me at the sea of racists, bigots, conspiracy theorists and general nutjobs advocating Leaving and I despair.

Add to that the undoubted problems of the lack of free movement of people and the impact on immigration in terms of employment (we don't have enough immigration IMO) and I swing back to Remain again.

I then remember that the same lack of immigration would make things much easier for UK scientists like myself to get access to funding and jobs without having to compete with EU scientists and I swing back to Leave again. Then again I want the freedom to move to any EU country for work and/or business without f**king around with Visas and I'm back to Remain again.

Not an easy one this TBH and I will almost certainly vote based solely on what is best for me personally.

People complain about the frustration of not knowing which politician to believe. My question is WTF are you doing expecting any politician to know the answers to any of this stuff? Make your own mind up.

I'd like more info on this 'legislative impact on British businesses'. Are we talking about things like the working hours directive, health and safety legislation, maternity and paternity rights, and most worker's rights that have been basically ignored by all tories debating the issue but are all due to EU legislation ?

Also the freedom of movement works both ways, while any EU citizen can come here for work it also gives us the right to go and live and work in any other EU country

I'll be voting to remain because people like bawjaw sorry BoJo the clown would love to be able to curb workers rights but also because after a remain vote I think the tory part will start ripping itself to shreds and some MP's will defect to UKIP with possibly possibly enough going for the tories to lose their majority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who ?

I'd like more info on this 'legislative impact on British businesses'. Are we talking about things like the working hours directive, health and safety legislation, maternity and paternity rights, and most worker's rights that have been basically ignored by all tories debating the issue but are all due to EU legislation ?

Also the freedom of movement works both ways, while any EU citizen can come here for work it also gives us the right to go and live and work in any other EU country

I'll be voting to remain because people like bawjaw sorry BoJo the clown would love to be able to curb workers rights but also because after a remain vote I think the tory party will start ripping itself to shreds and some MP's will defect to UKIP with possibly possibly enough going for the tories to lose their majority.

It started months ago.

Implosion is imminent.thumbup2.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who ?

I'd like more info on this 'legislative impact on British businesses'. Are we talking about things like the working hours directive, health and safety legislation, maternity and paternity rights, and most worker's rights that have been basically ignored by all tories debating the issue but are all due to EU legislation ?

Also the freedom of movement works both ways, while any EU citizen can come here for work it also gives us the right to go and live and work in any other EU country

I'll be voting to remain because people like bawjaw sorry BoJo the clown would love to be able to curb workers rights but also because after a remain vote I think the tory part will start ripping itself to shreds and some MP's will defect to UKIP with possibly possibly enough going for the tories to lose their majority.

This seems a very backward reasoning. You will vote to remain in the EU, backing David Cameron and George Osbourne as well as a host of other Tory grandees in the hope that it annoys Boris Johnston. The most recent poll of Conservative voters suggest that around 57% are now voting to remain and just 40% are supporting Brexit - but far from damaging the Conservative Party, what we're actually seeing is all of the major parties being split. For example Jeremy Corbyn has always backed Brexit, but his party forced him to toe a party line arguing for remain, and the SNP party seem to be making a huge issue of the fact that they want to remain in the EU despite what major figures in the party - like Jim Sillars - are saying, and despite the evidence that actually many SNP members and voters are actually planning to vote for Brexit.

I don't think Europe is a big enough issue to see the party lines in UK politics being redrawn but obviously you do - which seems strange to me, unrealistic even.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Immigration in itself is not a problem... Scotland is a much richer culture for the wide range of cultures that have enhanced our Country over the years.

However... What we are now experiencing and what we face is something very different and if you genuinely do not think it will personally affect you then you are naive beyond measure!

Enjoy your utopian bubble existence.

Indeed. Whilst I agree that immigration has generally been very positive for Scotland and that we obviously need immigrants to keep coming to this country, many parts of Scotland still hasn't gotten over the impact of the influx of Irish immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed. Whilst I agree that immigration has generally been very positive for Scotland and that we obviously need immigrants to keep coming to this country, many parts of Scotland still hasn't gotten over the impact of the influx of Irish immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries.

made me chuckle there Stuart! lol.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't know what way I am going to vote yet.

A part of me is thinking it's funny seeing the Tories stabbing each other in the back over this then you realise it's to see who'll be in control us of next and the list is frightening. Another part of me thinks there isn't much point because the likely scenario is England will decide it but it would be ironic if Scotland swung the decision either way.

I'm not buying the scaremongering from either side, we've all had enough of that to last a life time.

I want to vote with the intentions of what is best for Scotland. Would we benefit more staying in or leaving? I'm probably just in favour of staying just now but I haven't read much details about it, I didn't realise the vote was so close. Just shows how poor the campaigning for each side is, even though its been all over the news for months it feels like there has hardly been any information given out about it.

The immigration thing has never bothered me, personally, I have worked beside quite a few Poles and 99% of them are brilliant at their job. Always the first on site and last to leave, never off sick (which is incredible because they told me they drank at least 1 litre of vodka a night!). It seems to be a much bigger issue down South and with what, 6,000,000 people voting for UKIP in the GE, that is a bit worrying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is Cameron said if he did not get what he wanted he would pull us out of Europe. He did not get everything it's more like maybe aye make new. For him to stand up twice in support of Turkey joining the EU only for him to say he would now use the veto to say no is laughable. The big problem through out with voters seems to be imagination if you watch people in the street being interviewed on news channels. It's not only the UK citizens that think this all over Europe right wing is growing in strength. Having lived in Holland for the past 6 month I heard the same thing from many Dutch. THE EU is undemocratic I for one want out.

That's an interesting take on it IoBS.

If you believe the reports on TV the right is generally against integration and against the EU. We're told that the reason for the upsurge in right wing successes across Europe is immigration and the fact that people want to close the borders. Yet here you're worried about the rise of the right being a threat because of the EU which seems somewhat counter intuitive.

It seems somewhat churlish to claim that the EU is anti democratic. It's not really a glowing example of democracy, but we still elect our representatives who vote on our behalf. It's probably our fault that most of us having elected a representative then don't care enough to remember their name, never mind to hold them to account in each vote, or to even care whether they show up at the parliament on a regular basis. Brexiters claim that it's anti democratic because UK representatives tend to find themselves outvoted on the majority of issues - but that's not anti democratic. Anti democratic is when the minority is granted it's will despite a majority voting against it. Not the other way round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Immigration in itself is not a problem... Scotland is a much richer culture for the wide range of cultures that have enhanced our Country over the years.

However... What we are now experiencing and what we face is something very different and if you genuinely do not think it will personally affect you then you are naive beyond measure!

Enjoy your utopian bubble existence.

Meaningless bollox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today it's the leave campaigns time to rejoice in the news, see below.

Net migration to the UK rose to 333,000 in 2015, according to the Office for National Statistics.

The net figure is the number of people who moved to the UK for at least a year, less the number leaving the UK for at least a year.

The ONS figures estimate that net migration for EU citizens was 184,000.

UKIP's Nigel Farage said the numbers showed immigration was "out of control". The figures are set to dominate EU referendum campaigning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When a verbose self centred poster resorts to a reply like that you know the debate is ended and their small brain has imploded.

TBH I have no idea what your point was.

It seemed like a meaningless rant about something but congrats bud. I'll allow you to win the debate.

Feel better?

Edited by oaksoft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like more info on this 'legislative impact on British businesses'. Are we talking about things like the working hours directive, health and safety legislation, maternity and paternity rights, and most worker's rights that have been basically ignored by all tories debating the issue but are all due to EU legislation ?

Also the freedom of movement works both ways, while any EU citizen can come here for work it also gives us the right to go and live and work in any other EU country

No we're not talking about employee rights.

There are laws which affect UK companies because the UK government has interpreted them in a specific way.

These laws affect UK companies which don't even do business with the EU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an interesting take on it IoBS.

If you believe the reports on TV the right is generally against integration and against the EU. We're told that the reason for the upsurge in right wing successes across Europe is immigration and the fact that people want to close the borders. Yet here you're worried about the rise of the right being a threat because of the EU which seems somewhat counter intuitive.

It seems somewhat churlish to claim that the EU is anti democratic. It's not really a glowing example of democracy, but we still elect our representatives who vote on our behalf. It's probably our fault that most of us having elected a representative then don't care enough to remember their name, never mind to hold them to account in each vote, or to even care whether they show up at the parliament on a regular basis. Brexiters claim that it's anti democratic because UK representatives tend to find themselves outvoted on the majority of issues - but that's not anti democratic. Anti democratic is when the minority is granted it's will despite a majority voting against it. Not the other way round.

Stewart I'm not worried about right wing surge I'm voting out because the EU is not democratic also EU has pushed money Spain way to build a fleet of fishing boats to come fish in our waters . I want to see our waters returned to our fishermen . I also want to see profits from Scots rail kept in Scotland rather than going to Holland of which there are plenty of examples throughout the UK. These are just a few examples why I want us to leave the EU. When we started inviting in so called poorer counties to join the EU financial problems and imagination was always going to be an issue. Edited by Isle Of Bute Saint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish the audience would stop f*cking clapping after every point made.

Waste of time and absolutely f*cking irritating.

Aye right enough your used to lots of booing and the odd pitch invasion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...