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On ‎04‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 0:49 PM, Ayrshire Saints said:

The dire post Brexit economic forecasts seem to have been understated if today's BoE statement (and rate cut) are anything to go by.  To think some idiots dismissed all these forecasts as fantasy too - but no doubt the usual suspects will be along shortly telling us it will all turnout fine and dandy just shortly !

Did you believe all the dire post Scottish Independence forecasts?

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No you were lying. The deliberate inference was that because of Brexit the stock market had fallen. You are deceitful, a coward and a proven liar


No that was your interpretation of what I actually wrote.

Let's keep it in topic, you were proven wrong again.

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Both the FTSE 100 and 250 may be up in £s but they're down in USD, EUR, AUD ...

Without checking every currency out there, it looks like the only major currency, apart from Sterling, where it is up is the Yen and the Yen is screwed at the moment with the Japanese central bank running a negative interest rate. Does this say anything about the pound?

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Both the FTSE 100 and 250 may be up in £s but they're down in USD, EUR, AUD ...

Without checking every currency out there, it looks like the only major currency, apart from Sterling, where it is up is the Yen and the Yen is screwed at the moment with the Japanese central bank running a negative interest rate. Does this say anything about the pound?



Go on then lend us your wisdom. What does the fact UK pension funds are getting richer by the day say about the pound

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Really? Can you explain then why my pension is f**ked, my wife's pension is f**ked and my father's pension is f**ked and have been getting even more f**ked in the last month?




I've no idea. It's certainly not because of falling prices in the FTSE 100 or the FTSE 250.

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Go on then lend us your wisdom. What does the fact UK pension funds are getting richer by the day say about the pound


Are they? You have proof of this, do you?
Really? Can you explain then why my pension is f**ked, my wife's pension is f**ked and my father's pension is f**ked and have been getting even more f**ked in the last month?



It's probably due to the low yields on government bonds that dicko says is good news for the whole country.


I've no idea.


You could have stopped there.

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Slartibartfast clearly is thick as f**k. A pension would not be "f**ked" by guaranteed returns on investment in government Gilts and bonds. The reason I wouldn't know why Herbies pension is f**ked or why Zippys pension had fallen is because they haven't disclosed their investment profile. The most likely reason for a fall in value would be because they opted to invest a proportion of their fund in the Asian markets. Had they stuck to UK markets they would have seen growth.

It's sad the likes of Cockles and Slartibartfast want to talk down our economy. The world still sees us as a very safe port in a storm and Nationalists are still desperate to pin anything negative on Brexit purely for political gain. Sadly theres 45% of Scots who are thick enough to believe them

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Why would myself or Herbie want to share our pension profiles online?



You shouldn't obviously. But without that information it would be impossible to tell why your pension fund is falling. What we do know 100% though is that it's not down to Brexit and it's not down to the performance of the FTSE no matter what those buckled lefties are trying to tell you.

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Slartibartfast clearly is thick as f**k. A pension would not be "f**ked" by guaranteed returns on investment in government Gilts and bonds. The reason I wouldn't know why Herbies pension is f**ked or why Zippys pension had fallen is because they haven't disclosed their investment profile. The most likely reason for a fall in value would be because they opted to invest a proportion of their fund in the Asian markets. Had they stuck to UK markets they would have seen growth.

It's sad the likes of Cockles and Slartibartfast want to talk down our economy. The world still sees us as a very safe port in a storm and Nationalists are still desperate to pin anything negative on Brexit purely for political gain. Sadly theres 45% of Scots who are thick enough to believe them



And you call me thick?

Pension funds have got to almost continually buy bonds on the open market to enable them to fulfill their obligations. As the yield falls the cost of the bond goes up, and vice versa. Therefore, at this time, buying the bonds costs more and they also get less of a return on them - i.e. they get f**ked. They also don't limit themselves to companies that are listed on the London stock exchange or only UK government bonds.

The FTSE 100 is loaded with companies who do most of their business abroad. For example mining companies dig up stuff in Africa and sell it to China. This stuff will be priced in dollars and so, to enable a paper report on the FTSE, they have to convert it into Sterling. The low value of the pound makes it look as though the the values of the companies are going up when they really aren't.

I don't want to talk down our economy, I voted Leave and said that I expected this to happen but that things would be better in the long term. It will get worse, especially once article 50 is initiated, before it gets better and take years to get back on track. You seem to think everything is all milk and honey - you're so much of a clown that I might even start calling you Coco.

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And you call me thick?

Pension funds have got to almost continually buy bonds on the open market to enable them to fulfill their obligations. As the yield falls the cost of the bond goes up, and vice versa. Therefore, at this time, buying the bonds costs more and they also get less of a return on them - i.e. they get f**ked. They also don't limit themselves to companies that are listed on the London stock exchange or only UK government bonds.

The FTSE 100 is loaded with companies who do most of their business abroad. For example mining companies dig up stuff in Africa and sell it to China. This stuff will be priced in dollars and so, to enable a paper report on the FTSE, they have to convert it into Sterling. The low value of the pound makes it look as though the the values of the companies are going up when they really aren't.

I don't want to talk down our economy, I voted Leave and said that I expected this to happen but that things would be better in the long term. It will get worse, especially once article 50 is initiated, before it gets better and take years to get back on track. You seem to think everything is all milk and honey - you're so much of a clown that I might even start calling you Coco.


f**king hell. What do you mean "as the yield falls the cost of the bond goes up"?

Im looking forward to more laugh out loud moments from the biggest economic retard since Alex Salmond. :rolleyes:

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f**king hell. What do you mean "as the yield falls the cost of the bond goes up"?

Im looking forward to more laugh out loud moments from the biggest economic retard since Alex Salmond. :rolleyes:


FFS Coco, it's quite simple.

Let's use some easy numbers for demonstration purposes. The Government sells a £1000 bond on which it pays 5% interest, i.e. £50 per year. On the open market, the demand for bonds increase and the holder sells the bond for £2000. The government still only pays £50 interest to the new holder, which is 2.5% of the £2000 the new holder paid. Price up, yield down. The open market is where the likes of pension funds buy and sell the majority of their bonds.

It's a really simple concept but obviously not simple enough for you, Coco.

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FFS Coco, it's quite simple.

Let's use some easy numbers for demonstration purposes. The Government sells a £1000 bond on which it pays 5% interest, i.e. £50 per year. On the open market, the demand for bonds increase and the holder sells the bond for £2000. The government still only pays £50 interest to the new holder, which is 2.5% of the £2000 the new holder paid. Price up, yield down. The open market is where the likes of pension funds buy and sell the majority of their bonds.

It's a really simple concept but obviously not simple enough for you, Coco.

I think ill start calling you Krusty. Tell me Krusty, why would you ever buy a second hand gilt from a holder for more than it costs if the yield is the same as buying a new one directly from the UK Government?

I really don't think you have the slightest clue about bonds and Gilts. First you thought the government financed our national debt by applying for a loan from the World Bank. Then when told it was through the issuing of bonds and Gilts you asked if it was premium bonds. Then you tried to argue that any advantage gained by the UK government paying a lower yield on in demand UK Sterling Gilts was offset by the effect of the $ to £ conversion rate. And now you've got international money markets paying twice the value for a bond they could have got at cost from source with the same yield.

If I were you Krusty I'd sneak off quietly before nosferatu appears. :rolleyes:

Is your real name Freddie Goodwin?

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I think ill start calling you Krusty. Tell me Krusty, why would you ever buy a second hand gilt from a holder for more than it costs if the yield is the same as buying a new one directly from the UK Government?

I really don't think you have the slightest clue about bonds and Gilts. First you thought the government financed our national debt by applying for a loan from the World Bank. Then when told it was through the issuing of bonds and Gilts you asked if it was premium bonds. Then you tried to argue that any advantage gained by the UK government paying a lower yield on in demand UK Sterling Gilts was offset by the effect of the $ to £ conversion rate. And now you've got international money markets paying twice the value for a bond they could have got at cost from source with the same yield.

If I were you Krusty I'd sneak off quietly before nosferatu appears. :rolleyes:

Is your real name Freddie Goodwin?



The sign of a desperate man - stealing the other guy's patter.

All those "examples" that you state are just more proof of your inability to understand plain English. For example, I asked someone if they were talking about premium bonds, not if the government financed their debt by selling premium bonds (you've even previously quoted the post that proves it). I also never had anyone paying twice the value of a bond, I clearly stated that I was using easy numbers for demonstration purposes - maybe the easy numbers weren't easy enough for you, Coco - and the reason that I explicitly stated it, was that I knew you would say something like that if I never - though you still did.

Aside from that, government bonds are openly traded. You don't have to buy them from a government. A government is obviously the original issuer but, once it is purchased, the purchaser can do whatever they want with it. That's why there are bond markets out there in the real world, which probably explains why you don't appear to know about them.

It sounds like you think that a government changes the amount they pay to bond holders throughout the "lifetime" of a bond. That only happens with index linked bonds and, even then, those are a very small minority of the government bonds in circulation. The vast majority of bonds have a fixed annual payment, which will be calculated by the original yield based on the original value, as my "easy numbers" example demonstrates.

If the yield % is forced down due to high demand on the open market, as I've already stated, then that gives a government the chance to issue new bonds at a lower yield since they will still be competitive with the bonds already in circulation in the market. It's all basic supply and demand stuff so I'm not surprised a failed "businessman" like yourself doesn't get it.

Here's some light reading for you.

https://www.ft.com/content/312f0a8c-0094-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5604/economics/uk-bond-yields-explained/

(You might want to skip that one as it actually uses the same easy numbers for its example, so you might get confused.)

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bond-yield.asp

There are plenty more out there, fill your boots, Coco.

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The sign of a desperate man - stealing the other guy's patter.

All those "examples" that you state are just more proof of your inability to understand plain English. For example, I asked someone if they were talking about premium bonds, not if the government financed their debt by selling premium bonds (you've even previously quoted the post that proves it). I also never had anyone paying twice the value of a bond, I clearly stated that I was using easy numbers for demonstration purposes - maybe the easy numbers weren't easy enough for you, Coco - and the reason that I explicitly stated it, was that I knew you would say something like that if I never - though you still did.

Aside from that, government bonds are openly traded. You don't have to buy them from a government. A government is obviously the original issuer but, once it is purchased, the purchaser can do whatever they want with it. That's why there are bond markets out there in the real world, which probably explains why you don't appear to know about them.

It sounds like you think that a government changes the amount they pay to bond holders throughout the "lifetime" of a bond. That only happens with index linked bonds and, even then, those are a very small minority of the government bonds in circulation. The vast majority of bonds have a fixed annual payment, which will be calculated by the original yield based on the original value, as my "easy numbers" example demonstrates.

If the yield % is forced down due to high demand on the open market, as I've already stated, then that gives a government the chance to issue new bonds at a lower yield since they will still be competitive with the bonds already in circulation in the market. It's all basic supply and demand stuff so I'm not surprised a failed "businessman" like yourself doesn't get it.

Here's some light reading for you.

https://www.ft.com/content/312f0a8c-0094-11e6-ac98-3c15a1aa2e62

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5604/economics/uk-bond-yields-explained/

(You might want to skip that one as it actually uses the same easy numbers for its example, so you might get confused.)

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bond-yield.asp

There are plenty more out there, fill your boots, Coco.

Let's see. Two days ago you claimed the falling value of Herbie and Zippy pension was down to low yields on government bonds. I asked how that could possibly be the case when you get a guaranteed return on investment with government Gilts and bonds. Clearly falling yields on bonds is never going to cause the value of your pension fund to decrease. Indeed they are generally regarded as the lowest risk investment in any portfolio precisely because you are guaranteed a return on your investment

Last night you claimed that pension funds had to buy bonds on the second hand market. They don't. Like any other investment it's a decision fund managers can take depending on the attractiveness of the yield versus the selling price of the bond. I asked you why you believed that an investment house would pay twice as much for a government bond giving the same yield when they could simply buy from source.

Now in a third attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you provide links that explain that if your economy is strong there is a demand for your government bonds which allows the government to offer new bonds with a lower yield. The site you told me to ignore couldn't have made that any clearer when it cited the rising yield Greece were having to pay. This puts your other post of two nights ago - claiming that a rising FTSE was indicative of a weak economy - to sharp ridicule.

As I said if I were you I'd stay off the forum for a bit Freddie. Maybe even come back with a new user name. :rolleyes:

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I also see Nasty Nic has changed her tune on Brexit. She's no longer claiming Scotland can hold the UK in the EU or claiming that Scotland would be able to remain whilst the rest of the UK leaves. She's not even talking about Indy ref 2 anymore.

Instead, having clearly been handed her arse on a plate by Theresa May and by everyone in the EU, she last night claimed she was committed to taking a "team UK" approach to leaving the EU.

Isn't it nice when you see the loud class arsehole backtracking after a humiliating scolding.

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Let's see. Two days ago you claimed the falling value of Herbie and Zippy pension was down to low yields on government bonds. I asked how that could possibly be the case when you get a guaranteed return on investment with government Gilts and bonds. Clearly falling yields on bonds is never going to cause the value of your pension fund to decrease. Indeed they are generally regarded as the lowest risk investment in any portfolio precisely because you are guaranteed a return on your investment

Last night you claimed that pension funds had to buy bonds on the second hand market. They don't. Like any other investment it's a decision fund managers can take depending on the attractiveness of the yield versus the selling price of the bond. I asked you why you believed that an investment house would pay twice as much for a government bond giving the same yield when they could simply buy from source.

Now in a third attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you provide links that explain that if your economy is strong there is a demand for your government bonds which allows the government to offer new bonds with a lower yield. The site you told me to ignore couldn't have made that any clearer when it cited the rising yield Greece were having to pay. This puts your other post of two nights ago - claiming that a rising FTSE was indicative of a weak economy - to sharp ridicule.

As I said if I were you I'd stay off the forum for a bit Freddie. Maybe even come back with a new user name. :rolleyes:

[/quottaskWhere do I start with this pile if shit, Coco?

Zippy hadn't posted about his pension when I made the post you are referring to, so I wasn't talking about his pension.

Herbie said that his pension was f**ked, not that the value had fallen. I presume that he was talking about the predicted amount he would get on retiring. If his pension fund is not growing as fast as it was predicted to then his predicted pension will be lower.

I never, ever said that pension funds had to buy bonds on the second hand market, I said that they did do that. I can't remember my exact words but it was along the lines of that they had to almost continually buy and sell bonds to try and meet their obligations and that most of it was done on the open market.

Again, I never, ever claimed that someone would pay twice the amount of the face value of a bond. It was stated that the figures I used were to make the example easy to understand - obviously you failed at that simple task.

That's what you took from those links? The links clearly stated that a falling yield and a rising price went hand in hand on the open market - a fact that you had tried to debunk.

I never said that the rising FTSE was the sign of a weak economy. You're just telling a bare faced lie there.

So, in short, all your post has done is prove that you still don't understand plain English, Coco.

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Where do I start with this pile if shit, Coco?

Zippy hadn't posted about his pension when I made the post you are referring to, so I wasn't talking about his pension.

Herbie said that his pension was f**ked, not that the value had fallen. I presume that he was talking about the predicted amount he would get on retiring. If his pension fund is not growing as fast as it was predicted to then his predicted pension will be lower.

I never, ever said that pension funds had to buy bonds on the second hand market, I said that they did do that. I can't remember my exact words but it was along the lines of that they had to almost continually buy and sell bonds to try and meet their obligations and that most of it was done on the open market.

Again, I never, ever claimed that someone would pay twice the amount of the face value of a bond. It was stated that the figures I used were to make the example easy to understand - obviously you failed at that simple task.

That's what you took from those links? The links clearly stated that a falling yield and a rising price went hand in hand on the open market - a fact that you had tried to debunk.

I never said that the rising FTSE was the sign of a weak economy. You're just telling a bare faced lie there.

So, in short, all your post has done is prove that you still don't understand plain English, Coco.


So to summarise, Coco is more cuckoo than a cuckoo, who was actually hatched as a cuckoo.

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On ‎16‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 11:56 PM, Slartibartfast said:

Both the FTSE 100 and 250 may be up in £s but they're down in USD, EUR, AUD ...

Without checking every currency out there, it looks like the only major currency, apart from Sterling, where it is up is the Yen and the Yen is screwed at the moment with the Japanese central bank running a negative interest rate. Does this say anything about the pound?

 

On ‎17‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 7:16 AM, Slartibartfast said:

 

 


Are they? You have proof of this, do you?


It's probably due to the low yields on government bonds that dicko says is good news for the whole country.



You could have stopped there.

 

 

On ‎17‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 5:48 PM, Slartibartfast said:

 

 


And you call me thick?

Pension funds have got to almost continually buy bonds on the open market to enable them to fulfill their obligations. As the yield falls the cost of the bond goes up, and vice versa. Therefore, at this time, buying the bonds costs more and they also get less of a return on them - i.e. they get f**ked. They also don't limit themselves to companies that are listed on the London stock exchange or only UK government bonds.

The FTSE 100 is loaded with companies who do most of their business abroad. For example mining companies dig up stuff in Africa and sell it to China. This stuff will be priced in dollars and so, to enable a paper report on the FTSE, they have to convert it into Sterling. The low value of the pound makes it look as though the the values of the companies are going up when they really aren't.

I don't want to talk down our economy, I voted Leave and said that I expected this to happen but that things would be better in the long term. It will get worse, especially once article 50 is initiated, before it gets better and take years to get back on track. You seem to think everything is all milk and honey - you're so much of a clown that I might even start calling you Coco.

 

Since you can't remember what you said I've quoted it all for you. :rolleyes: I've highlighted in red all the laugh out loud moments.

In black you will see exactly what you said. To be clear

"Pension funds have got to almost continually buy bonds on the open market to enable them to fulfill their obligations" - no they don't.

"Therefore, at this time, buying the bonds costs more and they also get less of a return on them - i.e. they get f**ked." - this proves you still hadn't grasped the concept of the market. Investment houses will make business decisions to buy or sell bonds. If they believe the offer price on a particular bond is attractive they will buy it. If they don't they won't. They aren't forced to buy it, and they aren't stuck to only buying on the second hand market either. Demand drives the yield on new issue bonds, this is true, and it's extremely positive for the UK economy if the yield paid is kept low as it means that our National Debt is costing us less in what people like you would call "interest payments". You'd need to be a f**king mentalist to think it would be better for the UK economy to be forced to pay higher yields, like Greece, because the markets feared we were likely to default which would have a severe impact on everything from inflation to interest rates, and you'd have to be really f**king thick to think that high rates of inflation are the way to protect your pension. Of course you are that thick as f**k mentalist.

And finally the FTSE 100 and 250 are full of companies who operate their businesses from a UK HQ. If the value of their exports are booming then of course this is fantastic news for company, for the UK shareholders and for the UK economy.

I'm glad you've found some basic explainations of what bonds and gilts are. It'd be good if you read the rest of the book - economics for dummies. :rolleyes: 

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